I dont get it, the essence of religion, i really dont

[Pico Gram]

I'm jewish. In fact, i'm an Israeli.

What i dont get is, how the hell people think god is in their favour.

Dont get me wrong, the more i get deep in my scientific work the more i get convinced that although the world around us could have evolved randomly, behind it there is a bigger plan or creator of some kind. to simplify, someone/thing puts ingredients and watches what happens with out necessarily interfere with the component's interaction.

If there is someone behind all this he must be damn smart, much beyond our grasp. So, how in gods name, entity with such intelligence can be expected to care about our petty deeds, did we pray, did we rest on sabbath, confess our sins or been to mecca. You really believe this is what an existence this magnitude contemplate about?!

As i said, I dont get it.

 

[Adstar]

If there is a God and He created the universe and He put intelligent emotional beings in it. Why would He be indifferent to them or it?

If your going to create something, you must be doing it for a reason. Why would God create the universe and then ignore it or be indifferent to us?

Would not God want His creation to be a functioning success?

If you work to create a system to plant a garden do you just walk away after all the preparation?

What would be the point of creating beings like us if God did not want to interact with us at some stage during the plan?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[cosmictraveler]

That's why I'm an atheist because if a God existed it wouldn't have caused all this confusion and uproar about itself for it would just expose itself to everyone so all could see, hear and talk to it so that everyone would be doing the same things that it wanted us to do. Everyones right about their religion but no one can ever prove that God exists except in the beliefs of every individual.

 

[wynn]

If there is someone behind all this he must be damn smart, much beyond our grasp. So, how in gods name, entity with such intelligence can be expected to care about our petty deeds, did we pray, did we rest on sabbath, confess our sins or been to mecca. You really believe this is what an existence this magnitude contemplate about?!

The praying, keeping the sabbath etc. are meant for the benefit of people, not for God.

 

[Jeeves]

Religion is not about whether there is or isn't a god, or what that god thinks or wants. Religion is about tribal identity. Your traditional ancestors would rather have killed you than have you convert to Christianity - which, after all, worships the same god... but is practised by a rival or hostile tribe. Your present elders would probably rather see you become an atheist than a protestant, for the same reason.
Fiddler on the Roof is a lovely illustration; there are plenty of others, from all the various religionists' points of view.

 

[Chipz]

I'm jewish. In fact, i'm an Israeli.

What i dont get is, how the hell people think god is in their favour.

Dont get me wrong, the more i get deep in my scientific work the more i get convinced that although the world around us could have evolved randomly, behind it there is a bigger plan or creator of some kind. to simplify, someone/thing puts ingredients and watches what happens with out necessarily interfere with the component's interaction.

If there is someone behind all this he must be damn smart, much beyond our grasp. So, how in gods name, entity with such intelligence can be expected to care about our petty deeds, did we pray, did we rest on sabbath, confess our sins or been to mecca. You really believe this is what an existence this magnitude contemplate about?!

As i said, I dont get it.

I think that's when reading Shimon bar Yohai and Nachman ben Moshe begin to make more sense. In short; for certain things and actions there exists no atomic nor physical proof of their usefulness, but for some reason (which they deem miraculous), doing them presents seemingly infinite proofs.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Just do as your told by your religious leaders for they want to to keep you tucked closely under their wing so you don't stray away. The best way to manipulate people is to make sure they do as they are all supposed to do and ridicule them if they don't.

 

[Chipz]

Just do as your told by your religious leaders for they want to to keep you tucked closely under their wing so you don't stray away. The best way to manipulate people is to make sure they do as they are all supposed to do and ridicule them if they don't.

Don't you care that your understanding of religion is akin to that of a 12 year old child and not an adult? Irrespective of whether you choose to believe it or not your emotional maturity seems to be stunted, I can only hope you're around 18 years old at most.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Don't you care that your understanding of religion is akin to that of a 12 year old child and not an adult? Irrespective of whether you choose to believe it or not your emotional maturity seems to be stunted, I can only hope you're around 18 years old at most.

Mozart wrote his first symphony at 14 and there are others that are like him at that same age doing things ordinary adults never will achieve, just remember that when telling someone they act like a teenager.

To me religion is just a way to control the masses and that thinking holds true for many atheists. Just because you might not think so doesn't mean I'm wrong but that you have your own way of trying to be a part of whatever religion you might believe in.

 

[ughaibu]

That's why I'm an atheist because if a God existed it wouldn't have caused all this confusion and uproar about itself. . .

For the fun of the uproar might be exactly and only why god created the world. So I dont think your reason for atheism is very good.

 

[Pico Gram]

With your permission i would like to try building a case and ask u whether it make sense.

There is a very big dispute about free will.

Would you agree that lack of free will provide the "smoking gun" to the existence of some higher form of intelligence responsible for all this?

If so, what is reproducibility if not the lack of free will? animal are "forced" to reproduce by tricking them in to it with. There is no logic in giving offsprings that would compete with you over food. It may make sense with species that rely on safety in numbers but sole predators harm them self by reproducing so whats the sense in that? doesnt it seem that some animals where "put" here to keep the equilibrium going?

Take a female leopard for instance. What incentives does she have to give offsprings? Isnt she driven in to it against her will? And if something is driven, someone have to drive. Isnt it so?

 

[ughaibu]

Would you agree that lack of free will provide the "smoking gun" to the existence of some higher form of intelligence responsible for all this?

Of course not. Free will is entirely independent of theistic fictions.

 

[Adstar]

With your permission i would like to try building a case and ask u whether it make sense.

There is a very big dispute about free will.

Would you agree that lack of free will provide the "smoking gun" to the existence of some higher form of intelligence responsible for all this?

There is no lack of free will. With human beings.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Balerion]

There is a very big dispute about free will.

Among whom?

Would you agree that lack of free will provide the "smoking gun" to the existence of some higher form of intelligence responsible for all this?

How would one measure free will? How would one recognize its absence?

If so, what is reproducibility if not the lack of free will? animal are "forced" to reproduce by tricking them in to it with. There is no logic in giving offsprings that would compete with you over food. It may make sense with species that rely on safety in numbers but sole predators harm them self by reproducing so whats the sense in that? doesnt it seem that some animals where "put" here to keep the equilibrium going?

I'm sorry, what exactly is doing the "forcing" and "tricking"? And in what way do "sole predators" hurt themselves by reproducing?

The only thing you got right in this paragraph is the admission that animals were not "put" here to keep the equilibrium "going". Nothing was, in fact, put here.

Take a female leopard for instance. What incentives does she have to give offsprings? Isnt she driven in to it against her will? And if something is driven, someone have to drive. Isnt it so?

No, it's not so. What makes you think animals reproduce against their will? Reproduction is their will.

 

[Pico Gram]

Among whom?



How would one measure free will? How would one recognize its absence?


I'm sorry, what exactly is doing the "forcing" and "tricking"? And in what way do "sole predators" hurt themselves by reproducing?


No, it's not so. What makes you think animals reproduce against their will? Reproduction is their will.

When one can choose to do or not to do things I call it free will.

When prey is scarce it is not logic to have an offspring to compete with you over food, this is "sole predators" harming them selves.

Ever heard of female heat ? can a female resist it? I call it against their will or at least lack of free will.

 

[elte]

When one can choose to do or not to do things I call it free will.

When prey is scarce it is not logic to have an offspring to compete with you over food, this is "sole predators" harming them selves.

Ever heard of female heat ? can a female resist it? I call it against their will or at least lack of free will.

Emotion also prevents free will, by the way I see it.

 

[Balerion]

When one can choose to do or not to do things I call it free will.

And what evidence do you have that "one cannot choose to do things"?

When prey is scarce it is not logic to have an offspring to compete with you over food, this is "sole predators" harming them selves.

But reproduction is the "point" of life. Just as a human mother would willfully sacrifice her own life for her child, so would an animal. Without reproduction, the line dies out.

Ever heard of female heat ? can a female resist it? I call it against their will or at least lack of free will.

I suppose it depends on which animal you're talking about.

 

[Itseemstome]

Back to where we started

I agree with your opening assessment of God, if there is one, completely. Indeed I assume a range of intelligences, of various levels, superior to ours. If there is a supreme level above them all then it seems that the word God may be appropriate. I won’t use the word, except in my final sentence and I’m sure you’ll see why I use it then.

It appears that there is a superior intelligence with whom contact is made, in various ways, on a far more regular basis than is usually assumed. This heightened state seems to occur as a result of many different causes; meditation, prayer, repetitive actions such as dance or drumming and the consumption of hallucinogens being some of them.

I have experienced it myself under hypnosis and I know someone, since ordained as a result, who experienced it under prayer. I found it interesting and she took it as a confirmation of her beliefs. Indeed I am sure many believe the later and their priests then hijack the experience to their own religion.

Of the other ways of communication three well known examples are Mendeleyev wondering about the elements, falling asleep and waking with the periodic table, Einstein having a dream involving a waterfall which lead him towards relativity and Crick getting the double helix idea when under the influence of LSD.

Indeed it seems to happen so regularly as a result of genuine questioning that it may well be that this intelligence is steering the way in which science is evolving. Maybe there was a previous civilisation in which it was steered differently.

We, therefore, have the exquisite situation that religion is in such a terrible mess because it is being directed by man and science is being such a success because it is being directed by God! That should ruffle a few feathers!

 

[Arioch]

Ah, the god of Einstein, the god of Spinoza. Such an exquisite god it is.

 

[spidergoat]

When one can choose to do or not to do things I call it free will.

When prey is scarce it is not logic to have an offspring to compete with you over food, this is "sole predators" harming them selves.

Ever heard of female heat ? can a female resist it? I call it against their will or at least lack of free will.

Females can have miscarriages, so there is a choice. But in time of stress, it is found that animals tend to have more offspring, because fewer of them survive.