I don't believe in any God, but I believe in God

P

Pammy

Registered Senior Member
I don't believe in any God, but I believe in God.

I do not believe in any God out there in any religion because non of them satisfy that that is the 'true' God.

However I do believe there is a God and I do pray to him and talk to him even though I do not join any repligion. I do what I think God will approve because God has given me a sense to know that. I do not need any religious books to tell me what to do, what not to do or how i go about things.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there is like me? Or any comments anyone? I've love to have a discussion about this so please don't spoil this thread so that anyone could voice their opinion too. Thanks.
 
although I am an atheist I would think that your approach is the most sensible one I heard of how to approach theism.

i'm sure if there would really be a god he wouldn't need books or some kind of organization to get his message accross.
 
I don't know if its he or she but I used "he" to avoid having to type he/she every time. :)
 
Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
although I am an atheist I would think that your approach is the most sensible one I heard of how to approach theism.

i'm sure if there would really be a god he wouldn't need books or some kind of organization to get his message accross.
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So I'm a theist. Actually this is the first time I know the right word to fill in under 'religion' *blush*
 
Scientifically:

Because science cannot prove that I am evolved from bacteria. Just because carbon dating of different organisms at different levels of the earth does not prove that I came from there.
Juat an example:

ie
week 1: A piece of meat is in the room
week 2: funny smell came from meat
week 3:maggots all over

Yes science can prove that those were present at that time in the room. Science tries to link them up. A wrong linkage will be that the maggots came from the meat. But because we have a good knowledge, we know that maggots came from flies who laid eggs.
In the real world on nature and evolution, we are also trying to make the links ourself, which may not be correct.
Thus I do not let science prevent me from my thinking that there is God, who created mankind.
Without all scientific theories and documents, just ask yourself "Do i come from bacteria?".

Philosophically:
I think if everything is evolved, then we would all be just moving pieces of flesh and bone, like animals. Maybe just another species of Monkeys that eat, sleep and reproduce. We would probably never even ask ourselves where do we come from?
You have to agree that dna wise, we are not much different, however "spritually" we are different. This is because we have a soul and a higher level consciousness.

Also:
I know this may put my credibility down to zero but I have PERSONALLY seen a ghost. It was in a room with a locked door, we were in a room, my two pals were sleeping on the matterest. I had not taken any alchohol/drugs. I saw the 'ghost' appear and fade away right in front of my very eyes. No science can explain that. Ok you think this is bs.. I know. Everyone who I told about it says its bs so if you don't believe it then please ignore I said it. The reason I said it is because I believe there are opposites in everything. If there are restless spirits around then why not God?



(I apologise if I am not explaining my viewpoint well because I find it quite had to express myself in English, which is not my native language.)
 
by the way I just read the first post on another thread about the Soul and I would like to clarify that I believe in the soul, however I do not believe or not believe that the soul lives forever because it could be one way or the other. My 'soul' means the spirit. (ie the soul of music). I also agree that thinking is done by the brain. The soul only influences how we think.
 
Pammy:

<i>I think if everything is evolved, then we would all be just moving pieces of flesh and bone, like animals.</i>

Yes. What's so bad about that? Do you have something against animals? Do you think humans are better than animals? Why?

<i>Maybe just another species of Monkeys that eat, sleep and reproduce. We would probably never even ask ourselves where do we come from?</i>

Why not? We don't need a soul to have a brain.

<i>You have to agree that dna wise, we are not much different, however "spritually" we are different. This is because we have a soul and a higher level consciousness.</i>

What makes you think that we have souls? Why don't animals have them too?

I agree with you that we have a more developed consciousness than some other animals, but I say its because we have bigger brains.

<i>I know this may put my credibility down to zero but I have PERSONALLY seen a ghost.</i>

I had a rather disturbing experience following a seance when I was younger. If I'd been so inclined, it would have been quite easy to believe it was due to a ghost. These days, though, I know that other explanations are far more likely.

<i>I saw the 'ghost' appear and fade away right in front of my very eyes. No science can explain that.</i>

What you really mean is that <b>you</b> currently know of no science which can explain your experience. That doesn't mean there isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation. To find it, we'd need a lot more detail, though.
 
Pammy,

Your approach to theism was the one that I believe that I developed on my own when I was very young. Various experiences in my life cannot be explained by current science. I can draw a parallel to that of people who have lived before me, who have also witnessed things that, to them, were extraordinary:

-A thunderstorm was thought to be the wrath of Zeus (I think) to the Greeks.

-Apollo pulled the sun across the sky

-Love was caused by a winged angel

We now know about thunder and lightening, of gravity and the solar system, that love is caused by reacting chemicals in our brains (although most of us, myself included, think there is more to it than that). Ghosts and UFOs, the ones that are really seen and truthfully retold are the mythologies of today. We have no explanation, so we turn to the supernatural.

I'd like there to be a god that has somehow decided for everything to be the way it is, for a heaven to reward everyone for their toils in life, for a hell to punish the true evils of it as well. But I can't. It's not scientific.
 
One member called your approach the most logical theistic one. Actually, I'd say it's about as illogical as all the others.


"Because science cannot prove that I am evolved from bacteria. Just because carbon dating of different organisms at different levels of the earth does not prove that I came from there."

So? If science had not even a theory on how we came to be would that be proof of god?
At one point in time we had no proof that lightning came from Earth or natural means. Does that mean that in Ancient Greece lightning came from god? No, it just means that at the time there was not enough to know where science came from.


"I think if everything is evolved, then we would all be just moving pieces of flesh and bone, like animals."

Ah, so you don't want to believe this? How very egotistical you sound.


"Maybe just another species of Monkeys that eat, sleep and reproduce. We would probably never even ask ourselves where do we come from?"

Why not? In fact, what evidence do you have to suggest we would never ask those questions? It seems to me any intelligent being would.


"You have to agree that dna wise, we are not much different, however "spritually" we are different. This is because we have a soul and a higher level consciousness"

How are we any different? We're smarter. That's about all I can think of.


"The reason I said it is because I believe there are opposites in everything."

Any basis to this belief?


"I apologise if I am not explaining my viewpoint well because I find it quite had to express myself in English, which is not my native language."

What is your native language, out of curiosity?


Welcome to sciforums.
 
Because science cannot prove that I am evolved from bacteria.
Click to expand...

Everything is evolved from a common ancestor, bacteria today are descendants just as you are.

Just because carbon dating of different organisms at different levels of the earth does not prove that I came from there.
Click to expand...

It's a lot more involved than carbon dating. And the data suggests or theorizes the evolution, not proves. The more evidence found, the stronger the suggestion that the theory is right. The day overwhelming evidence is found against the theory, then the theory must be reevaluated.


Juat an example:

ie
week 1: A piece of meat is in the room
week 2: funny smell came from meat
week 3:maggots all over

Yes science can prove that those were present at that time in the room. Science tries to link them up. A wrong linkage will be that the maggots came from the meat. But because we have a good knowledge, we know that maggots came from flies who laid eggs.
Click to expand...

Spontaneous generation never used the scientific method to validate it, in fact it was used to discredit the idea, and discover the real cause.


In the real world on nature and evolution, we are also trying to make the links ourself, which may not be correct.
Click to expand...

As long as they use the scientific method to validate the theory, they are correct for the evidence thus far.


Thus I do not let science prevent me from my thinking that there is God, who created mankind.
Without all scientific theories and documents, just ask yourself "Do i come from bacteria?".
Click to expand...

Given time and genetic evolution, sure...

You have one thing going for you, that you realize the pointlessness of believing things simply because someone tells you it's true, or that it's in an old book. Skepticism is a healthy thing. If believing in some type of creator helps you through life, then it works for you. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't ever let that belief cloud your ability to analyze situations objectively.
 
Originally posted by Jaxom
The day overwhelming evidence is found against the theory, then the theory must be reevaluated.
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I'm sure you realize this but I wanted to point it out:

Overwhelming evidence in science consists of one single solitary fact that contradicts the theory.

The theory must then be changed in order to account for this fact or discarded altogether.

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by James R
Pammy:

<i>I think if everything is evolved, then we would all be just moving pieces of flesh and bone, like animals.</i>

Yes. What's so bad about that? Do you have something against animals? Do you think humans are better than animals? Why?
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I did not say that it is humans are better than animals. I am only saying that we are different. In fact if the Earth does not have humans it could have been a better place. As for why they animals are different, I think you have to have closer contact with them. I have two dogs and a cat. I can see that they do not have the consciousness of humans. They never have feelings such as the feeling of being embarassed (which can only be possible if you don't feel your 'self'), etc

<i>Maybe just another species of Monkeys that eat, sleep and reproduce. We would probably never even ask ourselves where do we come from?</i>

Why not? We don't need a soul to have a brain.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they "could not" but they "would not". There is a difference.

What makes you think that we have souls? Why don't animals have them too?
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Yes I do believe we have a special factor which animals do not have. I couldn't find a better word for that special thing so I call it soul. I do not think that a soul definately goes to heaven or hell when we die (although it would be better than just vanishing). For all we know, the soul could just die with the brain.

I agree with you that we have a more developed consciousness than some other animals, but I say its because we have bigger brains.
Click to expand...

Humans have the biggest brain relative to the size of the body. We do not have the biggest brain. If a bigger brain would have a more developed consciousness, then the sperm whale would have be surpassed ours.


What you really mean is that <b>you</b> currently know of no science which can explain your experience. That doesn't mean there isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation. To find it, we'd need a lot more detail, though. [/B]
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I agree with you. I could find no scientific explanation for it even with all the details I have (being a personal experience) so for the time being, I'll say I have seen a ghost. However, I would like to clarify that I did not see things like moving chairs or flying tables. What I saw do have a human like form and it did not do anything except appearing and disappearing. It did not try to scare me because it appeared very slowly. It did not move anything in the room or make any sounds. There really is no details that I have overlooked.
 
Re: Pammy,

Originally posted by Pollux V
Your approach to theism was the one that I believe that I developed on my own when I was very young. Various experiences in my life cannot be explained by current science.
Click to expand...


I am sorry to have made you to misunderstand me. No I did not believe there is a God simply because I saw a ghost or anything unexplanable. That experience only confirmed to me that there are things which the present science cannot explain.

I'd like there to be a god that has somehow decided for everything to be the way it is, for a heaven to reward everyone for their toils in life, for a hell to punish the true evils of it as well. But I can't. It's not scientific.
Click to expand...

I can, because not everything can be explained by the present science as you agreed.
 
Originally posted by Tyler
One member called your approach the most logical theistic one. Actually, I'd say it's about as illogical as all the others.


"Because science cannot prove that I am evolved from bacteria. Just because carbon dating of different organisms at different levels of the earth does not prove that I came from there."

So? If science had not even a theory on how we came to be would that be proof of god?
At one point in time we had no proof that lightning came from Earth or natural means. Does that mean that in Ancient Greece lightning came from god? No, it just means that at the time there was not enough to know where science came from.


"I think if everything is evolved, then we would all be just moving pieces of flesh and bone, like animals."

Ah, so you don't want to believe this? How very egotistical you sound.


"Maybe just another species of Monkeys that eat, sleep and reproduce. We would probably never even ask ourselves where do we come from?"

Why not? In fact, what evidence do you have to suggest we would never ask those questions? It seems to me any intelligent being would.


"You have to agree that dna wise, we are not much different, however "spritually" we are different. This is because we have a soul and a higher level consciousness"

How are we any different? We're smarter. That's about all I can think of.


"The reason I said it is because I believe there are opposites in everything."

Any basis to this belief?


"I apologise if I am not explaining my viewpoint well because I find it quite had to express myself in English, which is not my native language."

What is your native language, out of curiosity?


Welcome to sciforums.
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Why are you twisting my meanings for? I already find it hard to express my thoughts and if you twist them it makes it more frustrating.

Why would it be egoistical to think that we are different from animals? I DID NOT SAY WE ARE BETTER!!!!!! I ONLY SAY WE ARE DIFFERENT. If you think you are the same as animals, so be it. It it not my job to convince you that you are different from animals.

How are we any different? We're smarter. That's about all I can think of.
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Is that all that differentiates you from animals? Suppose you were trapped with your lover on a remote island and your lover died. Would you bury him and die thinking of him or would you rather cut him up and eat him because that is the smarter thing to do?
 
"As for why they animals are different, I think you have to have closer contact with them. I have two dogs and a cat. I can see that they do not have the consciousness of humans. They never have feelings such as the feeling of being embarassed (which can only be possible if you don't feel your 'self'), etc"

1) Don't assume he hasn't had many pets. I myself have had 3 dogs, a gecko and multiple other small animals and I'm only sixteen.

2) Now, I'm betting you don't know much about the way the human brain works, but emotions or feelings such as that cause "embarassment" are all functions of the brain. That is it, nothing more.

And you say that we have a level of consciousness about your dogs and cats? In no more a way than your dog and cat does above an ant.


"For all we know, the soul could just die with the brain."

For all we know, there is no 'soul'.


"I can, because not everything can be explained by the present science as you agreed."

That does not mean an answer does not exist.
At one point we did not know why earthquakes occured. That never meant gods did them.
 
"Why are you twisting my meanings for? I already find it hard to express my thoughts and if you twist them it makes it more frustrating."

What did I twist?
(And it can be egotistical to say we are "different" without saying we are better. That is, you consider humans "unique")


"Is that all that differentiates you from animals? Suppose you were trapped with your lover on a remote island and your lover died. Would you bury him and die thinking of him or would you rather cut him up and eat him because that is the smarter thing to do?"

Well for one I'm a man. Second, no I wouldn't bury her. I'd probably take her body away from wherever we had built our little hut and leave it there. Thirdly, for your information chimps are highly believed to suffer from immense grief and distress when one close to them dies. So even if I said I would bury her it would not really seperate me from a chimp.
 
Yes I consider humans unique from animals. So what? Why is it egoistic? Animals are unique from humans too, so are they egoistic too?

"I myself have had 3 dogs, a gecko and multiple other small animals and I'm only sixteen. "
So you should know that they are different from humans then. If he has pets too he should know that as well. They only appear to be like humans in cartoons. (No insult intended, I myself watched cartoons).

"chimps are highly believed to suffer from immense grief and distress when one close to them dies."
A dog will also do the same thing. That is just a survival mechanism. If you want, you can do this experiment: Give one of your dogs to a friend and make sure your friends give him better food to eat and a good place to sleep. Your dog will never return to your house unless you go over. Some dogs will return if there is something you offer better (such as maybe you play with him more etc.)
 
Originally posted by Tyler
One member called your approach the most logical theistic one. Actually, I'd say it's about as illogical as all the others.
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your remark was not very informative. just stating that something is illogical and not telling why.

I just found her position logical because in my view an allpowerful supernatural being wouldn't require a bible or some religious organization to impress his presence of a mere mortal human being. Would you need some men in skirts and funny hats if you were god to spread your word? I don't think so. I would be quite capable of doing it myself. Hence, the religious experience, if it was real, would be independent of human actions. Sounds logical to me.

(we don't have to go into a debate whether god exists or not, since there are other threads that do that. that would be the illogical part of all religion)

Originally posted by Pammy
So I'm a theist. Actually this is the first time I know the right word to fill in under 'religion' *blush*
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sorry, didn't have a better word for it. I don't like to call myself atheist either, because then I associate myself with other atheists.
 
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