I cannot bring myself to keep supporting capitalism

N

Norsefire

Salam Shalom Salom
Registered Senior Member
I want to, I really want to; I really do believe in voluntarism and the free market..........but, then, I can only support such a system in theory. Honestly, after examining the possibilities and applying them to my personal life, I simply cannot support it. For personal matters, more than anything.

I think of my love, for my family and friends and partner.....and I think how they could be left behind. I can't stand the thought; I want to make sure they are taken care of. And this is why I can't support such......egotism.......any more. I support it in theory, philosophically, I still think the ego is all that matters....but I cannot stop my compassion.

Especially after seeing the photos of the sick and dying.......it really does touch me.

It isn't that capitalism necessarily means people must suffer, but human nature shows that people will. Because people don't care; they're apathetic. And the thought of it being ME that might be left behind, or worse yet, someone I care about....I can't support it. Force becomes justified.
 
It's as flawed as communism, for looking good on paper and failing in practice.

Communism assumes everyone is going to play fairly and so does capitalism.
 
nietzschefan said:
It's as flawed as communism, for looking good on paper and failing in practice.

Communism assumes everyone is going to play fairly and so does capitalism.
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Yes. Human beings are such a disease; they disgust me. The suffering........it is choice that is the problem. I want happiness for all, and for this we need a true social organism to be achieved.
 
Nonsense. Once upon a time, one man calling the shots was useful. Another time a dynasty of powerful families was useful. Communism was even useful for a time.

What is best will simply come to be. People are not disgusting, one way or another they somehow usually find the best way overall to operate. It's is authorities that do not allow the natural changes and evolutions to happen that are disgusting and they always meet THEIR end. It's up to them if it is peaceful or violent.
 
Left to its own accord, freedom will create error. And error creates suffering.
 
It was only a forced posture that you had adopted anyway, one that is most typical of college-aged kids. It's the result of feeling dispossessed and searching for inclusiveness through power. It's also the naive belief that you'll be more successful by subscribing to selfish beliefs. Life doesn't work like that, however... and more and more people find that out with age and experience. :cool:
 
Norsefire said:
Left to its own accord, freedom will create error. And error creates suffering.
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You would know the exact right way? At all times? How then would you ever know the wrong way?

The entire sum of human knowledge is gained through a series of errors, some of which proved useful. Useful enough to repeat, until no longer useful. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
 
We should strive to eliminate error altogether; although I digress: error is simply a perception. What we must do is collaberate, together, on what an "ideal society" is, and then pursue it.
 
Collaborate is what I'm talking about too. You'll find it more at work in a black market than in the halls of the so-called wise, however...
 
oil, yes:p it would be an issue of perception IF what you were talking about was assessing someons glasco coma scale:p

it would be inapropriate words (which BTW does NOT mean swearing, swearing can be quite apropriate when someone is asking silly questions to assess GCS after you have just had your partner die in a car crash) which means they rate a 3 in the verbal section:p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Coma_Scale
 
I am surprised Norsefire; I thought you would remain a intellectual purist for something between Ayn Rands philosophy and pure anarchistic libertarianism.
 
Norsefire said:
.... What we must do is collaberate, together, on what an "ideal society" is, and then pursue it.
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Collaborate? ...LOL! Humans can only do that on a very, very limited basis ....and damned sure not on something as far-reaching as the "ideal society"! Hell, at small parties, it's often a major chore just to get any concensus on what to order on the pizzas to be delivered ....and you want those same fucked up, selfish, greedy, egotistical humans to arrive at an "ideal society"? ...LOL!

Norsefire, I would suggest that you stop thinking so much about such things and learn to "go with the flow" ...you'll be much happier and you'll not have all these silly unsolvable problems to try to solve. Just drink another cold beer and sit back and watch the world go by.

Baron Max
 
Damn, Norsefire. First you're a fascist. Then a Capitalist. I guess communist is next on the agenda?
 
Norsefire said:
I want to, I really want to; I really do believe in voluntarism and the free market..........but, then, I can only support such a system in theory.
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What you're objecting to is neither capitalism nor a free market: it's corporatism. The corporation is an artifact invented by governments. It permitted the huge concentrations of capital that were used to fund the huge projects that launched the Industrial Era, like transcontinental railroads and the petroleum and steel industries. It's not clear whether these projects would have been performed some other way using traditional financing and entrepreneurship, since that experiment was never performed. Governments love corporations because they can depend on them to be supportive, and with their wealth and power they keep the common folk in line. Adam Smith would throw up if he could imagine what we have today being called a "free market." Citizens who must toil for a living "negotiate" with employers and producers who have the wealth and power of small nations??? Nothing "free" about that.

Those projects are less common now and we're witnessing the fading away of corporations. Of course there will always be a few corporations that support the post-industrial ecomony, like FedEx and Microsoft, but most corporations, instead of being producers, have turned into scavengers, fighting over the corpses of their competitors.

You younger people may live to see a restoration of a more truly free market.
 
yea right, sure. Look at woolworths, BHP, telstra ect there is no way in HELL a person with say 500,000 to start up a buiness could EVER compeat against them. Not to mention there is no such thing as free negotiation between employer and employee, employer WANTS a worker, an employee NEEDS money to live, there for its not negotation on equal terms. Just look at the break up of GM for example, 100,000 jobs lost is a WIN? What about those people as inderviduals insted of numbers? they have families, morgages ect which need to be paid for.

Further more central banks delibratly PREVENT full employment, why? because it drives up inflation. What does that mean? well it means that WORKERS have more power and are there for demanding more money and the central banks cant aford that so they keep a percentage of the population unemployed to drive down "labor costs". However this section is constantly critized as "dole blugers" even though its goverment and economic policy which keeps them unemployed. Its worse in the US because you dont even have unlimited unemployment benifits, its a case of "you are still umployed after a year, forget we are the cause suck it up, you dont DESERVE our help"
 
madanthonywayne said:
Damn, Norsefire. First you're a fascist. Then a Capitalist. I guess communist is next on the agenda?
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I'm still a capitalist philosophically. My point is simply that capitalism will allow suffering; capitalism doesn't "create" suffering. The problem isn't capitalism; capitalism is perfect.

It's human beings that are imperfect.
 
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