I believe rape is worse than murder and people should be allowed to kill their rapist

[garbonzo]

In this summarized short version of a real life story, a woman got raped, she proceeded to hunt down and kill her rapist. She got a few years in jail but right now she is studying to be a nurse and holds an otherwise normal life.

It's a lot easier to get over watching someone else getting killed than it is to get over being raped. People die in combat. It's what they do. They train for a job and they do that job and sometimes that job means watching your co-worker take one for the team. If the paycheck's big enough then maybe it's worth it to some people.

But you don't get trained to be a sexual assault victim and you don't get paid for it either. The indeterminate mental repercussions that are referred to after combat situations could just as likely be positive therapeutic progress for a rape victim. Clearly, in the example above, the victim made a decision. She went through with that decision. Now she's doing something else with her life. She'll never be who she was before and she'll always carry what this man did to her but killing him does not appear to have caused her additional stress. Nor should it.

Perhaps people need to consider why our justice system is in place. Do you really believe that the law covers for every contingency? That there are no crimes which are so despicable, so complete in their ruination, that resolution for their victims can not be afforded by a court?

Then you're distancing yourself from the real issue here: this is a person's life. One person. Society didn't collapse because a rapist got shot to death and it's not going to fall into anarchy even if it happens several more times.

Law is a social contract and in reality it's about making the best of a bad situation. It's about numbers. It's about trying to keep crime down for the most amount of people for the longest period of time (or just crime statistics and the rigging of them, if we're being really honest here). This one person does not shoulder the whole burden of civilization. In a case this like this, her duty is only to herself because she's the only one who stands to lose anything.

The courts didn't get raped. Society didn't get raped. She did.

But either way, the victim is stuck with what the rapist has done to them. All that they can do is re-contextualize that action and one way to do that is via revenge killing; by taking back their own perceived loss of power.

Why should a rapist be allowed the possibility of a healing process when the rape victim has no such opportunity? I think what most people don't understand is that rape is a destruction: not only a physical one but a spiritual one. And the latter aspect is complete. Nothing survives it. Whoever walks away from an experience like that walks away as a new, and profoundly damaged, person. It is a murder of the soul.

You can argue all you want for deterrence and rehabilitation but those are questions of how best to govern a society when certain members of said society will necessarily require penalization. It is not an individual solution and it is not a solution for the victim.

What is the point of vengeance? To restore; to provide the foundation of a personality again to someone who has had their entire being robbed from them. To provide the most basic human need for security.

And this is why you will never abolish these acts of violent reprisal. Because it is possible to strip a human being down to nothing more than pain and loss and depression and still leave them standing and willing and able to fire a gun.

Because some things need to be set right and, on very rare occasions, they can be.

 

[arauca]

In this summarized short version of a real life story, a woman got raped, she proceeded to hunt down and kill her rapist. She got a few years in jail but right now she is studying to be a nurse and holds an otherwise normal life.

It's a lot easier to get over watching someone else getting killed than it is to get over being raped. People die in combat. It's what they do. They train for a job and they do that job and sometimes that job means watching your co-worker take one for the team. If the paycheck's big enough then maybe it's worth it to some people.

But you don't get trained to be a sexual assault victim and you don't get paid for it either. The indeterminate mental repercussions that are referred to after combat situations could just as likely be positive therapeutic progress for a rape victim. Clearly, in the example above, the victim made a decision. She went through with that decision. Now she's doing something else with her life. She'll never be who she was before and she'll always carry what this man did to her but killing him does not appear to have caused her additional stress. Nor should it.

Perhaps people need to consider why our justice system is in place. Do you really believe that the law covers for every contingency? That there are no crimes which are so despicable, so complete in their ruination, that resolution for their victims can not be afforded by a court?

Then you're distancing yourself from the real issue here: this is a person's life. One person. Society didn't collapse because a rapist got shot to death and it's not going to fall into anarchy even if it happens several more times.

Law is a social contract and in reality it's about making the best of a bad situation. It's about numbers. It's about trying to keep crime down for the most amount of people for the longest period of time (or just crime statistics and the rigging of them, if we're being really honest here). This one person does not shoulder the whole burden of civilization. In a case this like this, her duty is only to herself because she's the only one who stands to lose anything.

The courts didn't get raped. Society didn't get raped. She did.

But either way, the victim is stuck with what the rapist has done to them. All that they can do is re-contextualize that action and one way to do that is via revenge killing; by taking back their own perceived loss of power.

Why should a rapist be allowed the possibility of a healing process when the rape victim has no such opportunity? I think what most people don't understand is that rape is a destruction: not only a physical one but a spiritual one. And the latter aspect is complete. Nothing survives it. Whoever walks away from an experience like that walks away as a new, and profoundly damaged, person. It is a murder of the soul.

You can argue all you want for deterrence and rehabilitation but those are questions of how best to govern a society when certain members of said society will necessarily require penalization. It is not an individual solution and it is not a solution for the victim.

What is the point of vengeance? To restore; to provide the foundation of a personality again to someone who has had their entire being robbed from them. To provide the most basic human need for security.

And this is why you will never abolish these acts of violent reprisal. Because it is possible to strip a human being down to nothing more than pain and loss and depression and still leave them standing and willing and able to fire a gun.

Because some things need to be set right and, on very rare occasions, they can be.

Things we can live with but not after we are death . Life is more precious then stigma.

 

[garbonzo]

Things we can live with but not after we are death . Life is more precious then stigma.

In order for that statement to be true, you have to prove two things:

That murder is always horrible, or otherwise unjustified.
That two immoral actions committed by individuals in direct conflict can't be in balance.

 

[billvon]

It's a lot easier to get over watching someone else getting killed than it is to get over being raped.

So if you had to choose for a friend of yours, and the only two choices were her being raped and her death - you'd prefer her death?

Both rape and murder are heinous, awful crimes. However, it is possible to recover from rape, making it the lesser crime.

She'll never be who she was before . . . .

Agreed. But the change you will see in her after her death will be even bigger.

Perhaps people need to consider why our justice system is in place. Do you really believe that the law covers for every contingency?

Of course not. It just covers many.

That there are no crimes which are so despicable, so complete in their ruination, that resolution for their victims can not be afforded by a court?

Nope. The justice system may not work perfectly but it's the best we have.

Then you're distancing yourself from the real issue here: this is a person's life. One person. Society didn't collapse because a rapist got shot to death and it's not going to fall into anarchy even if it happens several more times.

By the counter argument, society didn't collapse because a woman got raped, either. That's not an argument for "therefore it's OK."

 

[wynn]

But either way, the victim is stuck with what the rapist has done to them.
/.../
Why should a rapist be allowed the possibility of a healing process when the rape victim has no such opportunity? I think what most people don't understand is that rape is a destruction: not only a physical one but a spiritual one. And the latter aspect is complete. Nothing survives it. Whoever walks away from an experience like that walks away as a new, and profoundly damaged, person. It is a murder of the soul.
/.../
Because some things need to be set right and, on very rare occasions, they can be.

This is the kind of belief held in societies where they ostracize rape victims, invite them to commit suicide, or kill the victims in honor killings.

 

[birch]

on a purely moral sense, it is just but the reason why society can't allow that is people shouldn't take the law into their own hands as there will be dishonest people who will use this priviledge to wrongfully accuse or hurt innocent people for whatever agenda resulting in societal anarchy. as far as whether punishment isn't harsh enough for some crimes or changes or improvements in judicial system, that does make sense.

 

[sideshowbob]

But either way, the victim is stuck with what the rapist has done to them. All that they can do is re-contextualize that action and one way to do that is via revenge killing; by taking back their own perceived loss of power.

Revenge killng is not a magic wand. It might help the victim "take back her perceived loss of power" or it might not. It might just make her feel worse.

I'm all in favour of rape being a mitigating factor. A rape victim should sometimes get a lesser sentence for murdering her rapist than for murdering her hairdresser - but not necessarily always.

"Allowing people to kill their rapist" is a simplistic response to a complex problem. That's usually a bad idea.

 

[garbonzo]

Things we can live with but not after we are death . Life is more precious then stigma.

There is no life without quality of life. I'm going to guess that you are either very young or have lived a very privileged life, since you seem to not have very much experience with pain and/or loss. You seem to think that any wound can be shrugged off pretty easily. That's just not how it works, kid. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[arauca]

There is no life without quality of life. I'm going to guess that you are either very young or have lived a very privileged life, since you seem to not have very much experience with pain and/or loss. You seem to think that any wound can be shrugged off pretty easily. That's just not how it works, kid. Sorry to burst your bubble.

My life experience : buried my mother , my father , 2 wife and other relatives and fiends. My mother death I could not forget for 30 years. By been alive I helped my family and other relatives , blow my head off I just would bring more burden to my family.

 

[Bells]

Law is a social contract and in reality it's about making the best of a bad situation. It's about numbers. It's about trying to keep crime down for the most amount of people for the longest period of time (or just crime statistics and the rigging of them, if we're being really honest here). This one person does not shoulder the whole burden of civilization. In a case this like this, her duty is only to herself because she's the only one who stands to lose anything.

The courts didn't get raped. Society didn't get raped. She did.

But either way, the victim is stuck with what the rapist has done to them. All that they can do is re-contextualize that action and one way to do that is via revenge killing; by taking back their own perceived loss of power.

Why should a rapist be allowed the possibility of a healing process when the rape victim has no such opportunity? I think what most people don't understand is that rape is a destruction: not only a physical one but a spiritual one. And the latter aspect is complete. Nothing survives it. Whoever walks away from an experience like that walks away as a new, and profoundly damaged, person. It is a murder of the soul.

You can argue all you want for deterrence and rehabilitation but those are questions of how best to govern a society when certain members of said society will necessarily require penalization. It is not an individual solution and it is not a solution for the victim.

Why is it that you seem to have more trouble or issues with what happened to your friend than your friend does, seeing that she appears to have moved on with her life and is now looking forward to a future as a nurse?

Is rape a destruction? Yes, it can be, if you let it. If you blame yourself or allow society to blame you. Being raped is not the worst thing that can happen to someone. Any rape victim can tell you that. The worst thing that can happen to them is that they are killed.

Of course you won't walk away from it unchanged. Having said that, however, everything we experience in life changes us, either for the better or for the worst.

Perhaps you should stop defining your friend by what happened to her and instead, recognising her for who she is now and embracing the fact that she is here to move on and look forward.

What is the point of vengeance? To restore; to provide the foundation of a personality again to someone who has had their entire being robbed from them. To provide the most basic human need for security.

Killing her rapist won't restore that. I think it does your friend a disservice to suggest that her strength of character is what it is because she killed her rapist. Do you think she would not be who she is now had she not done it?

As much as I want to praise your friend for her actions, she has caused harm to others as well. Certainly, he was a rapist, a bad person. But I am sure his loved ones may now be in a position where they fear your friend and worse, may feel that they have a right to kill her now for revenge. Because losing someone you love in such circumstances does rob you of your personality. Would you approve if his loved ones now hunted her down and killed her?

Where does the cycle of violence end? At what point does it become not acceptable?

And this is why you will never abolish these acts of violent reprisal. Because it is possible to strip a human being down to nothing more than pain and loss and depression and still leave them standing and willing and able to fire a gun.

Because some things need to be set right and, on very rare occasions, they can be.

And if his family decide to do the same thing to your friend, is it okay? Is it set right for them?

 

[(Q)]

In this summarized short version of a real life story, a woman got raped, she proceeded to hunt down and kill her rapist. She got a few years in jail but right now she is studying to be a nurse and holds an otherwise normal life.

It's a good thing she got the right guy, he was obviously in no shape to defend himself or present his side of the story, if in fact the story were even true.

The entire event is based on her word, alone.

The courts didn't get raped. Society didn't get raped. She did.

Perhaps, but society, which includes the courts, failed to prevent the rape of the woman and the murder of the alleged rapist.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Many woman say that if they had a choice, they would rather be murdered than raped--as do many men, perhaps an even larger percentage.

The problem with this is that while a great many rape victims are around to ask how they feel a few years later, we have never succeeded in interviewing a murder victim.

 

[arauca]

Many woman say that if they had a choice, they would rather be murdered than raped--as do many men, perhaps an even larger percentage.

The problem with this is that while a great many rape victims are around to ask how they feel a few years later, we have never succeeded in interviewing a murder victim.

I was raped by a woman and I liked, so I kept going to her for several years

 

[birch]

There is no life without quality of life. I'm going to guess that you are either very young or have lived a very privileged life, since you seem to not have very much experience with pain and/or loss. You seem to think that any wound can be shrugged off pretty easily. That's just not how it works, kid. Sorry to burst your bubble.

it depends on how badly it affected the victim. perpetrators know it is basically 'stealing' a life for many years as it does diminish quality of life considerably depending on severity and situation. often, victims know their rapist which is usually much worse damage and long term than a random victim by an unknown assailant, usually. why victims say they would rather be murdered is they understand that physical harm is only one way of really damaging a person; the mind, emotions and spirit is fundamental to a person's well-being. they don't understand that it is a life of suffering often for many years. perpetrators understand this and sometimes is why they do it. they keep you physically alive but that's how one suffers. the problem with revenge is though technically it is just, the perpetrator or their loved ones may not see it that way. perpetrators think what they do to others is excusable but what is done to them is not. there are worse things than death and criminals of very evil nature understand this very well and why victims often feel suicidal or actually commit suicide. those who have not suffered this type of assault which the effect is not really physical, the physical is the mechanism used to degrade, humiliate and violate someone in the most intimate way a human can do to another. it IS the most heinous crime one can do against another, that is why it is up their with murder. as far as it being less worse than murder is really up to debate as it really depends. there are people who have gone insane and ended up in institutions because of such trauma or their whole life is dealt with the private pain, shame and nightmares. rape is much worse than people realize. there is an account of victims of brutal soldier rape and the soldiers said 'the women were human before but after they were raped repeatedly, it was like touching pig skin, they weren't human anymore'. the soldiers even were alarmed. rape is an extreme violation of the core of a human being and their dignity, identity etc. death is final but living with the damage is another form of added and continued suffering too.

 

[wynn]

The problem with this is that while a great many rape victims are around to ask how they feel a few years later, we have never succeeded in interviewing a murder victim.

If you're dead, then you don't have to live with having been murdered ...

 

[arauca]

it depends on how badly it affected the victim. perpetrators know it is basically 'stealing' a life for many years as it does diminish quality of life considerably depending on severity and situation. often, victims know their rapist which is usually much worse damage and long term than a random victim by an unknown assailant, usually. why victims say they would rather be murdered is they understand that physical harm is only one way of really damaging a person; the mind, emotions and spirit is fundamental to a person's well-being. they don't understand that it is a life of suffering often for many years. perpetrators understand this and sometimes is why they do it. they keep you physically alive but that's how one suffers. the problem with revenge is though technically it is just, the perpetrator or their loved ones may not see it that way. perpetrators think what they do to others is excusable but what is done to them is not. there are worse things than death and criminals of very evil nature understand this very well and why victims often feel suicidal or actually commit suicide. those who have not suffered this type of assault which the effect is not really physical, the physical is the mechanism used to degrade, humiliate and violate someone in the most intimate way a human can do to another. it IS the most heinous crime one can do against another, that is why it is up their with murder. as far as it being less worse than murder is really up to debate as it really depends. there are people who have gone insane and ended up in institutions because of such trauma or their whole life is dealt with the private pain, shame and nightmares. rape is much worse than people realize. there is an account of victims of brutal soldier rape and the soldiers said 'the women were human before but after they were raped repeatedly, it was like touching pig skin, they weren't human anymore'. the soldiers even were alarmed. rape is an extreme violation of the core of a human being and their dignity, identity etc. death is final but living with the damage is another form of added and continued suffering too.

I understand it is horrible for a woman but the more you folks talk about it in such grandeur way the victim will feel more depressed and she will look for more pity. It is done the person have not lost a leg or an arm. life is full of experiences and that is a bad one.

 

[birch]

I understand it is horrible for a woman but the more you folks talk about it in such grandeur way the victim will feel more depressed and she will look for more pity. It is done the person have not lost a leg or an arm. life is full of experiences and that is a bad one.

you do not know what you are talking about. men are also extremely afraid of rape, especially by other men. it is because it is a personal violation on the deepest level and it dehumanizes and degrades. that is why it is a form of terrorism against a person. there is a reason you don't realize one can have longterm mental and emotional damage that totally changes your life.

 

[arauca]

you do not know what you are talking about. men are also extremely afraid of rape, especially by other men. it is because it is a personal violation on the deepest level and it dehumanizes and degrades. that is why it is a form of terrorism against a person. there is a reason you don't realize one can have longterm mental and emotional damage that totally changes your life.

I made a post on African man been raped by soldiers. I understand that that is done tor humiliation . But a rape of woman by a man I think is for different reason . So this post to my understanding is about man raping a woman.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Well ask someone would they rather be raped or murderer? I bet most people would say raped. Rape is not worse than murder get over your self. I think the solution to rape, and specifically the kind of rape of physically forcing someone to have sex with you, is castration, nothing more nothing less, if you can't control your you don't deserve to have your balls! Now this would be hard to implement on female rapist but I guess we can castrate them as well.

 

[birch]

Well ask someone would they rather be raped or murderer? I bet most people would say raped. Rape is not worse than murder get over your self. I think the solution to rape, and specifically the kind of rape of physically forcing someone to have sex with you, is castration, nothing more nothing less, if you can't control your you don't deserve to have your balls! Now this would be hard to implement on female rapist but I guess we can castrate them as well.

you are confusing torture with death. you cannot say that death is worse than everything else just because it's final. if that were the case, we wouldn't humanely euthanize either when one is suffering too much or for prolonged or indefinite. you also do not know if most people say murdered. it all depends on the situation and there are cases of sexual slavery where it would have been better if they were killed rather than tortured. you can't just equate the finality of death as being the worst in relation to actual real suffering and degree of suffering. you are only wronged by being alive, duh. it would also depend on how one was killed and the suffering involved. if the finality of death was so much worse, there wouldn't be people who commit suicide to escape pain or wish they were dead because of pain. heck, there are those who would go for the death penalty than suffer years or life in prison. as far as PRACTICALITY of the judicial system, murder is supposed to have the utmost punishment but there are other heinous crimes besides death that cause extreme damage.