Hypothetical Question

Answer

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
D

darksidZz

Valued Senior Member
Greetings James R, Absane, etc...

This is a unique question and one I've been considering for a long time now. It goes beyond current ideas you may have and enters a new area.

If you're not currently religious then I'd like to ask you guys, since you don't believe in god what would it take to change your mind?

Let's say you are in a crowd that claims god has returned, that Jesus is back from the dead and living here & now. You go see this man and he performs miracles, you can hardly believe.. later he does some really weird stuff like floating, glowing, etc... this is real and nothing is imagined.

The question I have is this, if he claims to be Jesus and is demonstrating qualities similar to those found in the bibilical stories... do you believe him? Do you honestly change your mind and say "this is Jesus, he's real!"

I ask because I think alot of you would say it was Jesus, but I on the other hand would say it's BS still. Just because someone has special powers and is able to do amazing things doesn't make the bible true, and if a person appears telling me that I'm wrong + demonstrating things that seem impossible, well.. I still won't believe them.

You see that's what it means to know god is fake, do you have that kind of understanding? For me I would say it was wrong, that something was very out of place and even though Jesus claimed he was the son of god I would say "there is no son of god, you're lying."

Tell me a little about what you'd say or do, how can you guess your behavior when faced with an amazing thing like that? He can heal, hurt, etc.. anything he likes... do you still believe science or cast it away?
 
Arthur C Clarke's third "Law" of Prediction:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Who would we be to say that the "magic" performed is not just supremely advanced technology.

This, under Occam's Razor, is a more rational conclusion than "God".
 
Sarkus said:
Arthur C Clarke's third "Law" of Prediction:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Who would we be to say that the "magic" performed is not just supremely advanced technology.

This, under Occam's Razor, is a more rational conclusion than "God".
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Yes and that's entirely my point, however I believe many of the members lack this insight and would believe this Jesus person, they'd think he was real and give in to the superstition and ludiriousy of the bible. I suspect it would truly make those who don't believe change their minds.. I however would think "this is somewhat odd, I can't believe this is because of a supernatural thing or entity, this guys lying." I can go on but you have made the best point overall.... so who would fall for this farce of Christs? Not me :p
 
darksidZz said:
Greetings James R, Absane, etc...

If you're not currently religious then I'd like to ask you guys, since you don't believe in god what would it take to change your mind?
Click to expand...

I'm not religious and that does not mean I do not believe a deity doesn't exist.

I am not religious because organized religion is a disaster. Also, I do not affirm nor deny the existence of a deity. I do not think we can know for certain that one exists.

Hence, I am an agnostic-atheist. A deistic god would explain why we cannot know, of course.
 
if someone could convince you to make a thread without creating a poll i would welcome them as the second coming.
 
Absane said:
I'm not religious and that does not mean I do not believe a deity doesn't exist.

I am not religious because organized religion is a disaster. Also, I do not affirm nor deny the existence of a deity. I do not think we can know for certain that one exists.

Hence, I am an agnostic-atheist. A deistic god would explain why we cannot know, of course.
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:shrug: but you didn't answer the question, would you believe it or what?
 
to answer the question posed.i dont think there is anything that could convince me a christian/pick any religion god was real.
if there is a god i dont think that humans are capable of knowing it.
 
kenworth said:
to answer the question posed.i dont think there is anything that could convince me a christian/pick any religion god was real.
if there is a god i dont think that humans are capable of knowing it.
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I almost agree with this, except I'd be willing believe in the transcendentalist or (one of) hindu god if there was a reason to. I don't think there will ever be reason to though.
 
i would ask him if he was a super sayain if he was flying and glowing. i wouldent believe he was jesus just because he can fly and glow,

i would ask him to perform a miricle for me, turn my bottle of evian water into red wine without touching the bottle or comming near me, and give me super powers so i can shoot energy blasts and fly, if he can do that i would buy that he is jesus i guess,


but not until he has done my biding,

peace.
 
I wouldn't be an atheist if I didn't have a skeptical nature to begin with. However, for me Jesus is a title like Buddha, meaning one who has awakened, and anyone can be Jesus, anyone can be Buddha, I always did believe in him. I think the truth is far greater than the fiction of the Bible. I don't think Jesus was talking about a supernatural God, he spoke in metaphors. The supernatural stuff would convince me of a higher power, but it would have to be one-on-one, not in a crowd, since it's possible to be fooled by trickery.
 
darksidZz said:
Greetings James R, Absane, etc...

This is a unique question and one I've been considering for a long time now. It goes beyond current ideas you may have and enters a new area.

If you're not currently religious then I'd like to ask you guys, since you don't believe in god what would it take to change your mind?

Let's say you are in a crowd that claims god has returned, that Jesus is back from the dead and living here & now. You go see this man and he performs miracles, you can hardly believe.. later he does some really weird stuff like floating, glowing, etc... this is real and nothing is imagined.

The question I have is this, if he claims to be Jesus and is demonstrating qualities similar to those found in the bibilical stories... do you believe him? Do you honestly change your mind and say "this is Jesus, he's real!"

I ask because I think alot of you would say it was Jesus, but I on the other hand would say it's BS still. Just because someone has special powers and is able to do amazing things doesn't make the bible true, and if a person appears telling me that I'm wrong + demonstrating things that seem impossible, well.. I still won't believe them.

You see that's what it means to know god is fake, do you have that kind of understanding? For me I would say it was wrong, that something was very out of place and even though Jesus claimed he was the son of god I would say "there is no son of god, you're lying."

Tell me a little about what you'd say or do, how can you guess your behavior when faced with an amazing thing like that? He can heal, hurt, etc.. anything he likes... do you still believe science or cast it away?
Click to expand...
glowing in the dark is hardly a stuff that would prove to me someone is god.
now if he chopped of his hands and it grew right back
,you might have the genuine allmighty muthafuck indeed.
however he still could be some kind of highly advanced Alien being that can control matter in such way ,so it still wouldnot prove hes god .
maybe if he STOPPED the Earth sun and stars from turning,
that would be quite impressive,
making the dead come alive is allegedly something only god can do,and It would be pretty convincing also
 
yeah like spider said i would have to talk to the guy 1 on 1, not in a crowd with an audience, he would have to show me some powers up close and personal just me and him, and i also would have many many questions to ask wich will have to be answered before i start to believe anything,

he would have to perform task after task,and most likely have to even bring me to heaven and let me speak to god so i can ask him a few things.


peace.
 
in reality, I would KNOW if it was Jesus or not. For those of you who are saved christians, I think you know what I mean. Anyways, someone who can do these things may not be a god, the one thing that would really convinve me, is if he knew about me. Things I had never told anyone etc., if he could touch my feelings and my heart. These are the most important things a god should be able to do. The theatrics are not near as important. In short, my awnser would be I'm not sure, because you ahvent said if he can do the emotional things. If he can't, then No I would not.
 
Positron said:
Things I had never told anyone etc., if he could touch my feelings and my heart. These are the most important things a god should be able to do.
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Ever seen a really good "cold reading" expert? People who can read your body language so well that they can appear to read your innermost thoughts?
Try Derren Brown - I may hark on about this psychological-illusionist-jedi-bloke but above all he shows how false many things really are.
 
I would be inclined to believe it was Jesus, the real deal.

I can't see how any technology could raise someone from the dead who has been dead and buried for a month or so. That would probably be the most convincing evidence because it at the very least proves that a realm exists other than the material one in which the "soul" of the formerly dead person could live.

The odds are so low (.000000000000000003%) that technology or an "alien" being could bring someone back from the dead who has already decayed to a skeleton that there would be virtually no doubt in my mind that the super-person was Jesus, if that person said he was Jesus.
 
Positron said:
in reality, I would KNOW if it was Jesus or not.
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*************
M*W: Why do you think so? Why wouldn't atheists know for sure if it were Jesus or not? I believe if there were a Jesus/god, it would make itself known to ALL and not only to christians.

For those of you who are saved christians, I think you know what I mean. Anyways, someone who can do these things may not be a god, the one thing that would really convinve me, is if he knew about me. Things I had never told anyone etc., if he could touch my feelings and my heart.
Click to expand...

*************
M*W: What if there were a Jesus/god, and he came back (hypothetically) and told you christians or even all of us that christianity as you believe it is wrong and you should've never followed the persuasion of others who were emphatically wrong. And, hypothetically (really hypothetically), what if Jesus/god returned and only the atheists recognized him? What if christians believed him to be just another antichrist? I guess it wouldn't matter a whole lot to atheists, but what if this jesus/antichrist you didn't believe in told christians there is no such thing as christianity? What would you do then?

These are the most important things a god should be able to do. The theatrics are not near as important.
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*************
M*W: What if Jesus didn't agree with you on this? In fact, what if Jesus was so totally opposite of what you all have been told to believe. What would you do then?

In short, my awnser would be I'm not sure, because you ahvent said if he can do the emotional things. If he can't, then No I would not.
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*************
M*W: If there really is a Jesus/god who comes back (which I don't believe), what if he tells you all that there is no such thing as heaven or salvation? What would you do when you learn the atheists were right all along? Would you continue to believe what you've been believing or would you believe atheists?
 
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Very good points M*W!

in awnser to them in order:

1) Well, if you are saved, there are times when feelings come over you, you know god is there. I would think that such a feeling would come over me. In the bible, I believe there is a story of a man who upon seeing jesus knew it was him.

2) part a: I would not believe this other deity, it would be like a magician (a really good one) telling me he was god because of all the things he could do, that I couldn't explain.

2) part b: That's something I can't really imagine very well i'm afraid. I want to affirm here though, that I don't support the institution of religion. I support personal convictions

3) If so, I suppose I would change my mind. However, in the bible, the emphasis is on feelings and emotions, such as personal convictions. The miracles Jesus did were not an overwhelmign part of the bible.

4) I would, because my life is not only going to get better when I die, but it got better the moment I was saved. It has continued to be good this whole time, and I wont give it up just because there is no Heaven, I am reaping rewards (and consequences) right now.

I appreciate your responses M*W you don't ask questions meant to trap people like me. I enjoy your desire for a fair discussion, and this is something relatively rare here, especially when people get impassioned.Plus, your points make me think.:)
 
darksidZz said:
You see that's what it means to know god is fake, do you have that kind of understanding? For me I would say it was wrong, that something was very out of place and even though Jesus claimed he was the son of god I would say "there is no son of god, you're lying."
Click to expand...

So nothing at all could possibly ever convince you?
Do you not see that is at least as closed-minded as a theist who believes without "proof"?

If you aren't saying that nothing at all could ever possibly convince you, then asnwer your own question. What would it take?
 
Well there is a difference between a man and a god, even if the man has incredible abilities. The real problem with this thread is it asks atheists a question that focuses more on Christianity rather than theism.
 
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