Human species 'may split in two'

S.A.M.

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
Humanity may split into two sub-species in 100,000 years' time as predicted by HG Wells, an expert has said.

Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass to emerge.

The human race would peak in the year 3000, he said - before a decline due to dependence on technology. People would become choosier about their sexual partners, causing humanity to divide into sub-species, he added.

However, Dr Curry warns, in 10,000 years time humans may have paid a genetic price for relying on technology.

Spoiled by gadgets designed to meet their every need, they could come to resemble domesticated animals.

Social skills, such as communicating and interacting with others, could be lost, along with emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect. People would become less able to care for others, or perform in teams.

Physically, they would start to appear more juvenile. Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food.

There could also be health problems caused by reliance on medicine, resulting in weak immune systems. Preventing deaths would also help to preserve the genetic defects that cause cancer.

The logical outcome would be two sub-species, "gracile" and "robust" humans similar to the Eloi and Morlocks foretold by HG Wells in his 1895 novel The Time Machine.

"While science and technology have the potential to create an ideal habitat for humanity over the next millennium, there is a possibility of a monumental genetic hangover over the subsequent millennia due to an over-reliance on technology reducing our natural capacity to resist disease, or our evolved ability to get along with each other, said Dr Curry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm?lsf


Thoughts?
 
Maybe a bit drastic, but yeah unless we don't blow ourselves up first, i think it'll be pretty similar to that.

Luckily i'll be dead by then. So not my problem

My same attitude towards the Enviroment
 
He doesn't really mention any selective pressure other than his own fantasy.

Anyone found a peer reviewed article on how reliable the fantasy center of his brain is?
 
That the research was carried out for the satellite tv channel 'Bravo' may give some indication of the credibility.
 
A thousand years? Isn't it possible by then genetic engineering will be so advanced as to render natural selection moot?
 
A thousand years? Isn't it possible by then genetic engineering will be so advanced as to render natural selection moot?
Click to expand...

Yeah I totally agree, I don't think that it will take 100 of years before humans start to play with their own genetic material.

So will this result in a class of uber people that can live for a 1XX years. That dominates, geneticlay bred armies with a large numbre of poor people that can't afford their cildren to have the upgrades?
 
Zephyr said:
A thousand years? Isn't it possible by then genetic engineering will be so advanced as to render natural selection moot?
Click to expand...

Not if the American government has anything to do with it.....


Can you say Luddite?
I knew you could...
 
samcdkey said:
Humanity may split into two sub-species in 100,000 years' time as predicted by HG Wells, an expert has said.

Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass to emerge.

The human race would peak in the year 3000, he said - before a decline due to dependence on technology. People would become choosier about their sexual partners, causing humanity to divide into sub-species, he added.

However, Dr Curry warns, in 10,000 years time humans may have paid a genetic price for relying on technology.

Spoiled by gadgets designed to meet their every need, they could come to resemble domesticated animals.

Social skills, such as communicating and interacting with others, could be lost, along with emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect. People would become less able to care for others, or perform in teams.

Physically, they would start to appear more juvenile. Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food.

There could also be health problems caused by reliance on medicine, resulting in weak immune systems. Preventing deaths would also help to preserve the genetic defects that cause cancer.

The logical outcome would be two sub-species, "gracile" and "robust" humans similar to the Eloi and Morlocks foretold by HG Wells in his 1895 novel The Time Machine.

"While science and technology have the potential to create an ideal habitat for humanity over the next millennium, there is a possibility of a monumental genetic hangover over the subsequent millennia due to an over-reliance on technology reducing our natural capacity to resist disease, or our evolved ability to get along with each other, said Dr Curry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm?lsf


Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Not in thousands of years, it may already have happened or be happening. It's obviously happening , but it's happening along cultural and class lines. I don't doubt that eventually humans will split into two sub-species, thats if humans survive, and I doubt humans will last long enough to split.

The species will be, the rich and the poor, the rich will be considered human, the poor will be considered alien monsters. If both the rich and poor manage to co-exist, eventually yes, they could split into two seperate species, but this isnt new, how do you think all these different appearances came about? If you mate with people who look like you for long enough, your physical appearance becomes distinct. It's always been like this, eventually humans if they keep doing what they are doing, will break up into at least two distinct species, but maybe more than two.
 
tablariddim said:
He mentions 100,000 years from now. He needs to get a fucking life what?
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I don't think it would take even that long. These things happen in hundreds of years. I'm sure eventually humans will create subspecies of themselves the same way they created different races, languages, cultures, etc. It starts with culture, culture eventually becomes language, which eventually becomes race, and then race eventually becomes a seperate species entirely. This happens in hundreds of years, not thousands, as it's does not take thousands of years to create new breeds of dogs or cats, it only takes hundreds of years.

Saying people will be choosier in their mates, thats so braindead obvious, smart people are smart because they are choosier with whom they mated with, so intelligent people will be the first to become a new race. It's happened already as if you go to college, most people who are college educated mate with people on their own education level, and on their own financial level, this is how we have things now. So if you have a bunch of college educated people, and then a bunch of people who are uneducated, by rewarding the educated with greater income, and by isolating them into colleges, it sorta actually creates a new species of intelligent thinker type people. This has worked, it's the main reason why our technology is increasing faster.

However, I think in the future education won't matter, it's going to be rich and poor, as if you have money you'll be able to buy intelligence or change your genes around.Class will become race, and then a seperate species.

Zephyr said:
A thousand years? Isn't it possible by then genetic engineering will be so advanced as to render natural selection moot?
Click to expand...

That's the point. Natural selection was ALWAYS moot and has been for hundreds of thousands of years already. The last time humans had natural selection was when humans were living in caves and had no concept of money, or civilization. Once money and class was invented, natural selection was over, it became economic selection, homoeconomicus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_economicus

Our current species is homo economicus, although we don't fully realize that natural selection has ended, a lot of people do realize this, thats why a lot of people go to college get a good education so they can get a good job to be more of a man, this way they can attract a good woman, physical appearance is not a good trick of the trade of attraction anymore, as women are more impressed now with income potential, and brainpower. If you have neither income potential or brainpower, you'll have a difficult time finding a good woman, and that cave man method of bashing a woman in the head, or of raping females, this is out of the picture, it's illegal and unethical, and we have abortion now so even if a female is raped it won't guarentee anything.

So the advice, to survive, either be smart or be rich, but NEVER EVER be dumb and poor, nothing is worse than dumb and poor.
 
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It's obviously happening
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Curious.
Do you have any idea what speciation is?
How is it 'happening' now?
Because rich people don't have sex with poor people?
Oh? Really? Since when?
 
samcdkey said:
Social skills, such as communicating and interacting with others, could be lost, along with emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect. People would become less able to care for others, or perform in teams.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.
Autistic people aren't going to take over the world. They can't handle touching each other long enough to make babies. And how can you raise offspring that you don't love. Robots, I guess.

But right now, it seems like selection mechanisms are choosing soft, loving, trustful, respectful communicators. Why would cold-hearted, cheating, lying, socially-retarded psycopaths pass on their genes in civilzed society at all?

Though perhaps if only a handful of such retards liked to breed with each other, there'd be divergence.

Physically, they would start to appear more juvenile. Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food.
Click to expand...

And cutting the tails of mice leads to new generations of mice with shorter tails. Right....
 
invert_nexus said:
Sensationalist garbage.
He'll probably is a firm believer in the coming singularity as well. I'm surprised he didn't mention it.
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You're probably right, although a believer in the coming singularity wouldn't believe that humanity will evolve via natural selection at all... oh no, we'll all be immortal, cybernetic, genetically modified, VR immersed gods by then.

On a more serious note, I do think that Homo sapiens sapiens will sub-speciate over the course of such a stretch of time, mostly as an adaptation to environmental changes. Hell, if we actually started colonizing other planets, who knows how many different human species there might be? Of course, this isn't necessary for speciation to occur. The next Ice Age might be a huge factor, and the last time a super volcano erupted (Toba, about 75,000 years ago) it had an enormous impact on global climate. Since climatic shifts aren't uniform throughout the globe, we may find ourselves in the company of other hominids once again.

Technology and culture will have an influential effect on this, perhaps, but it won't stop it.
 
Jaster,

On a more serious note, I do that that Homo sapiens sapiens will sub-speciate over the course of such a stretch of time, mostly as an adaptation to environmental changes.
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The thing is that the conditions in the world right now do not favor speciation. The world is growing smaller and populations are merging. Not dividing.

To speciate, there would need to be something enormous happening. A catastrophe that would wipe out a huge percentage of the population and leave pockets stranded away from each other.
Colonizing other planets would also possibly lead to the right conditions.

However, it's interesting to note that there is a species of bird that was in the journals recently (I forget the bird. Something European) that IS heading towards a speciation event. And the populations are not separated in space, but in time. I forget the details, but it has to do with one group of the species arriving at the breeding grounds later than the other group.

You're probably right, although a believer in the coming singularity wouldn't believe that humanity will evolve via natural selection at all... oh no, we'll all be immortal, cybernetic, genetically modified, VR immersed gods by then.
Click to expand...

Heh.
Yeah. I had the same thought.
But, with such a 'prediction' as this, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'prophet' was confused enough to be able to embrace both ideas fully.

Of course, I also wouldn't be surprised if the guy who made this prediction just made some lighthearted theoretical thing and it's been taken too seriously by the press.


Roman,

Autistic people aren't going to take over the world. They can't handle touching each other long enough to make babies. And how can you raise offspring that you don't love. Robots, I guess.
Click to expand...

Good point. Reminds me of the fate of the Spacers in Asimov's world.
 
I've held the belief for some time that the lower class and upper class are becoming seperate subspecies. It's particularly apparent in britain.
 
Hmm. A case might be made for places like Britain and India where the caste/class systems have been so prevalent.
But, they'd need to be isolated for speciation to occur.
 
Dr Lou Natic said:
I've held the belief for some time that the lower class and upper class are becoming seperate subspecies. It's particularly apparent in britain.
Click to expand...

Do you think cultural isolation lasts long enough, or is strong enough, for real speciation to occur?

Humans, especially now, have a lot of gene flow between populations.


[edit]
On second thought, we could be selecting for an autistic elite, albeit indirectly. Social-retardation appears to complement genius.
 
You know.
On India?
I just remembered reading in Durant that the untouchable caste (forget the name) grows ever and ever larger because of interbreeding between the castes. A mix-caste is untouchable, yes? Or is it just the Bhraman class that breed untouchables that way?

And. About Britain?
The class system never kept a prince from getting his knob polished by a gutter slut.

Prima Nocta anyone?
 
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