They usually do when the weak confront the strong.
Human Sacrifice in the Bible?
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
They usually do when the weak confront the strong.
Of course! When the weak choose to confront the strong they forsake all hope of mercy.
I am prepared for a bad ending...are you?
I do not think that you can possibly realize what you are actually saying when you use the words "all things".
Here is a short list of only a few of the "all things" that must also have been created for the pleasure of god:
hell
cancer
human worry
human dispair
human fear
human hopelessness
envy
greed
hate
evil of every kind
Hitler
murders
death
the fall of man to begin with
the condition God left man in afterwards
the sacrifice of Christ
every rape that has ever taken place on this earth
every car accident
and the list just goes on and on and on...
All of these things and countless other evils must also have ultimately been created by God for His own pleasure. "All things" cannot be the good and moral things only but also all of the evil that has taken place on this earth as well. God is in direct control of all evil Himself and so is responsible for it all as well. He is the one who has the power to stop all of it but does not do so. If evil was not created for His pleasure then evil would simply not exist.
There have been a number of other threads that cover this topic in much more depth than this.
Anyone else want to add to my list?
Revelation 4:11 (King James Version)
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Romans 8:28 (King James Version)
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Jeremiah 29:11 (King James Version)
11For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
John 9:39-41 (King James Version)
39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
If I were to list all the scripture that answers your inquire, or even makes the same arguement that you do, it would be to much. An if I were to expound it ot you by way of reason, to me it would be to much.
Now the question is, do you know god? And these people you've been arguing with, do they know him? And if it is not so, then what is the word of either concerning him? Although I often fail in being critical, I try to keep my reasoning clear, so that when I am corrected, I know it.
There's no question that god exist, or devils. Existence of neither one has been hiddenn from our eye, though our minds are another matter. We often choose for ourselves what the world should look like, rather than be meek. We can choose how we see things to be justifed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (King James Version)
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth(god), that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth(god), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Job 35:2 (King James Version)
2Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Romans 8:28 (King James Version)
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Jeremiah 29:11 (King James Version)
11For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
John 9:39-41 (King James Version)
39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
If I were to list all the scripture that answers your inquire, or even makes the same arguement that you do, it would be to much. An if I were to expound it ot you by way of reason, to me it would be to much.
Now the question is, do you know god? And these people you've been arguing with, do they know him? And if it is not so, then what is the word of either concerning him? Although I often fail in being critical, I try to keep my reasoning clear, so that when I am corrected, I know it.
There's no question that god exist, or devils. Existence of neither one has been hiddenn from our eye, though our minds are another matter. We often choose for ourselves what the world should look like, rather than be meek. We can choose how we see things to be justifed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (King James Version)
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth(god), that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth(god), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Job 35:2 (King James Version)
2Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
They never had a chance! They were created and predestined to go to hell for His good pleasure, right?
Most of the men, women, and children that have ever lived on this earth apparently were not "called according to his purpose". They were instead created to go to hell, see above. "Few are chosen", remember?
This is written specifically to other people, not to you or to me. You cannot claim these words for your own, as if He was speaking to you, because He was not.
This is a direct contradiction to the verse that says that He did not come into the world to judge the world. Which is it? Please look it up.
I understand.
The question is also as much for you as it is for me. Do you know God? For many years I thought I did. I used to be a Sunday School teacher and Bible Study leader. Now I do not know. I am trying to figure it out. That is all I can do and I am trying the best that I can. But this is also all it takes to burn forever, to not know.
I still cling to the belief that God exists, but I do not think that the Bible describes Him correctly.
All it takes to deserve hell, according to the Bible, is to not understand and/or not know what to believe. God cannot be such a poor Father as this to His own children. This is not justice but instead cruelty.
Not at all. I just think that God simply must be better than the Bible's portrayal of Him. You are supposed to "test all things", remember?
Take Care!
Finally a post that actually relieved me.
Romans 9:9-33
9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
When I first really considered this scripture, it nearly killed me. If it wasn't for the mercy of the lord I would have fallen.
It was a long time before I could approach it in peace, and even longer before I understood. Despite the assault made upon you, I'm glad to see you're not turned aside from your faith in his kindness. Because in that you have it, it may tell you a bit about what kind of vessel you may be. For only god could have given you a depth of knowledge concerning him you seem to have; though it seems your perplexed. If it be you believe him to be good as it appears, you need only have faith and turn to follow. All that we've pursued and grasped, we've pursued in faith according to what was given us. Even to our first breath and our first word.
"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." and again "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
Can you hear him?
God is a spirit.
" That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Romans 9:9-33
9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
When I first really considered this scripture, it nearly killed me. If it wasn't for the mercy of the lord I would have fallen.
It was a long time before I could approach it in peace, and even longer before I understood. Despite the assault made upon you, I'm glad to see you're not turned aside from your faith in his kindness. Because in that you have it, it may tell you a bit about what kind of vessel you may be. For only god could have given you a depth of knowledge concerning him you seem to have; though it seems your perplexed. If it be you believe him to be good as it appears, you need only have faith and turn to follow. All that we've pursued and grasped, we've pursued in faith according to what was given us. Even to our first breath and our first word.
"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." and again "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
Can you hear him?
God is a spirit.
" That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Romans 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
According to this, sin has nothing at all to do with the condemnation of anyone. And accepting Christ, or having faith in God, also now has absolutely nothing at all to do with the salvation of anyone as well. It has only to do with God's predestined choice of you. If all of this is true then the gospel itself is false and evangelism is surely a waste of time, effort, and lives. I am supposed to be only and exactly the way God made me to be and there is nothing I can do to change that and yet He still judges me for being exactly what He made me to be. This is in contradiction to most of the rest of the Bible.
The Bible no longer makes sense to me. I tried to fight it for a long time, but I eventually found it to be mostly false and confusion. Any book that is this confusing cannot be the "Word of God". It is really about as simple as that. The Bible teaches some good things and some evil things. It is a moral compass with north pointing to the top and to the bottom of the dial at the same time.
This is one of the Calvinism "proof texts" for the "once-saved-always-saved" doctrine. People love this idea because it allows them to keep on sinning even after they express faith in Christ. You get to go to heaven later and live like you are going to hell now. And the Big Guy is responsible for the whole thing from beginning to end, so sit back and relax, "you're in good hands". It is exactly what most people want to hear and that is why it is so popular. You do know that the most popular thing is not always the right thing don't you?
I thought that the broad way leads to destruction. Guess that scripture was wrong. Hmmm... (Broad, a wide river that typically is shallow over long stretches) Yep! that pretty much fits the once-saved-always doctrine. Guess at least that scripture really was right after all.
The exact opposite of this doctrine is taught throughout the Bible but most people today will not except it. So we have more confusion about something that should be a very basic thing in the gospel, but clearly is not.
No, I do not have voices in my head, do you.
That is the theory!
Thanks!
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I'am saying only those which are born of his spirit are his children. One shouldn't seeing only the outward, believe they see the whole.
Acts 8:27-31 (King James Version)
27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
You're right, right about so many things. What I'm try to tell you is that the only way you could've seen these things is if god gave you sight.
John 6:44-45
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You err in thinking that all men are equal, even as you. If god does not create good people, good people don't exist. Everything's cut and dry, black and white, binary. If you're going to eat the bread, you have to eat the whole roll. One, can not be divided.
Is one to pity the fallen leaf in that it is justifed for a time, then gone? Who is to answer for it? An to whom does it reply? Are you repentant for the microbes when you wash your hands with antibacterial soap?
If there's one thing we should know in this day, it's that the invisible counts.
Luke 18:15-17 (King James Version)
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
The question you have to ask yourself is this: whether or not you believe it's just that there is good, and whether it be good to recieve it.
Acts 8:27-31 (King James Version)
27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
You're right, right about so many things. What I'm try to tell you is that the only way you could've seen these things is if god gave you sight.
John 6:44-45
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You err in thinking that all men are equal, even as you. If god does not create good people, good people don't exist. Everything's cut and dry, black and white, binary. If you're going to eat the bread, you have to eat the whole roll. One, can not be divided.
Is one to pity the fallen leaf in that it is justifed for a time, then gone? Who is to answer for it? An to whom does it reply? Are you repentant for the microbes when you wash your hands with antibacterial soap?
If there's one thing we should know in this day, it's that the invisible counts.
Luke 18:15-17 (King James Version)
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
The question you have to ask yourself is this: whether or not you believe it's just that there is good, and whether it be good to recieve it.
Yes! I do believe that it is just that there is good in this world. Sorry! And it would be more just if there were more of it, IMO. Why should billions upon billions of people be condemned throughout the centuries because two people ate a piece of fruit once? How is that just? All of the really good fathers I know would torture their own children forever if they made just one little mistake. O.K. probably not. But why not? Is it perhaps because they have the ability to love their children and forgive them without having to punish or kill them or kill an innocent animal instead. A good father, and there are many, would never think of doing such a thing. A good father just might be able to forgive his child without payment of any kind simply because of love. Why would that be so terrible?
In the words of Sam in the Lord of the Rings, "there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for."
There exists no boundary in this world, that I have ever seen anyway, between the "good" and the "evil" in relation to Christianity and the rest of the world. There are "good" Christians and there are "bad" Christians. There are "good" non-Christians and there are also "bad". I work with a man who is a Muslim by religion and he is a "good" man. Is he perfect? No! But he is still a "good" man and he is doing the best he can to help people in this world. Is he a Christian? No. Do I care if he burns in hell forever? Yes! Why? Because that would be unjust. Your view of a black and white universe would assign him to outer darkness in the blink of an eye.
I am a father of three sons. How would I not care if I ever thought that God might save one of them but exclude the other two just because He felt like it? And you are saying that God has done this to everyone who has ever lived.
Since when is it wrong to care about those who are suffering?
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I don't expect you to understand the mechanics because without the holyghost how can you? But god has cared for you everyday of your life, and he has cared for your sons everyday of theirs. When I see what you want, and I see the devices by which you're snared keeping you thinking you hate the only one who can grant it and has granted it. For you to come so close, to be given so much knowledge, then stumble at a small thing as believing that god would destroy the righteous who he created to love him: delight in his works.
Although I would say more, I am left to rest.
Although I would say more, I am left to rest.
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I do not hate God! I never have! I just find the Bible's portrayal of Him to be false. There is a huge difference.
Binary, do you hate God because you think the Koran is false? I sincerely doubt it. Neither must I hate God because I regard the Bible as false.
Take Care!
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