Originally posted by one_raven
I am not sure what you are asking.
Are you looking for ways to convince someone that life has no purpose?
Why?
Are you looking for a debate on the subject?
What is your position?
Please clarify a little.
Would you mind expanding that seeing electricity and forgotten memories.?Originally posted by Gravage
I'm one of those strong atheists who say an know,since I and my best friend have experienced and proved to each other that there is no life after death,and life has no purpose at all.My friend was at what they call clinic death,and hasn't seen anything what others have-flying above their bodies,walking thru walls and etc...,he was at the same comatose as every and each of other people have been,just for the difference of others who who have survived clinical death,he didn't see anything.He told me that he only saw some electricity,and many of forgotten memories-but he never saw himself flying thru walls and being outside his body or anything like.
Its better for you to be an atheist if you happened to see 3 'ghosts'.Also,I believed before strongly in ghosts,in about 2 months I saw 3 different ghosts,and than I tries to touch them,than they disappeared.
Or recognizes reality and takes steps to create personal meaning. But you demonstrate very well the evil of religions like Christianity who thrive and depend on the fear of their adherents.I'm sure anyone who grasps the concept of a world without meaning will be filled with fear.
One can very easily withhold belief for a fictional fantasy for which there is absolutely zero factual support, unless you know otherwise of course.However one cannot deny the soul.
It is far more worrying that people choose to believe these fantasies rather than reality.It is worrying that anyone can just deny the soul,
Pseudo-theory? What is that? But you are correct; there is nothing to indicate that the universe has not always existed.I have read a pseudo-theory that states the universe has always been here, and it's very hard to know that it hasn't!
You imply this is not a good thing, why?…to encourage this belief would be to deny the soul and God.
Originally posted by one_raven
Well, either faith that these things exist makes people see what is not there or faith (that these things do not exist) makes people not see what is there...
What is the difference?
How can you prove either view?
Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
I'm not sure I can answer your question but I can help you get off the wrong track.
Your friend was not dead. People who lie there with no pulse and no breathing, but then their heart and lungs start working again-- those people are not dead!
The definition of "death" is the cessation of life. Not the temporary illusion of the cessation of life, but the absolute cessation of life, no fooling. There are thousands of cases of people who appear to be dead and then get up and walk away. There's no paradox, the fact is simply that they were not dead.
This is nothing more than an admittedly rather extreme yet not at all uncommon case of incorrect diagnosis. Just like a doctor who says you have the flu and it turns out to be just food poisoning is wrong. A doctor who says you are dead and it turns out that your heart just stopped beating for a few minutes is also wrong.
What is going on in your brain at that time is not a so-called "near death experience." Your brain is alive! It's woefully low on oxygen so a lot of wacky things are going on in it. Just like when it's got too much alcohol or THC or any number of chemical imbalances. Chemical imbalances make the brain act crazy and make you feel like you're having experiences that aren't really happening.
When this is caused by drugs, they call them "hallucinations." When it's caused by lack of oxygen, they call them "near death experiences." Well, they're wrong, just as wrong as the doctors who said you were dead. They're just hallucinations.
A good scientific definition of death is the irreversible cessation of brain activity. This can only happen after so many synapses have degraded that even if they got your blood pumping oxygen into your brain again, there's no "you" left in there. All your thoughts and memories vanished when the synaptic structure fell apart. Then you are dead. This takes about five minutes, so to be on the safe side we can say that if your brain has been deprived of oxygen for ten minutes, all the synapses have failed and you're gone. (As in the case of that poor dead lady in Florida that the other Stupid Bush intervened to make a Perpetual Vegetable. Her brain was deprived of oxygen for ten full minutes. She is dead!) It doesn't matter that they can keep your heart and lungs and other organs working for fifty more years by hooking them up to machines. Your body may be alive the same way a philodendron is alive, but you are dead.
And the same is true in reverse. Your heart and lungs may not be working for a few minutes, but if your synapses are still intact, you're still alive, no matter what is or is not going on in your mind.
Don't confuse a doctor's mistake with a preview of the afterlife.
I'm in your camp when it comes to belief in the supernatural. But it's not fair to tell religionists that they're wrong just because somebody's brain was a little short on oxygen and the particular hallucination they had did not feature God and the angels.
No more than it would be fair to say that if somebody's hallucination did feature that scenario, it proves that religion is true.
These "near death experiences" are red herrings that distract both religionists and atheists from even coming close to having a realistic dialog. It's time to recognize them for what they are: just one more type of doctor error.
if universe had no purpose it wouldnt exist,Originally posted by Gravage
EVERYONE is welcome,here on this debate,but I especially call STRONG ATHEISTS-please,enter if there are any of the strong atheists in these forums at al-tell me also why are you strong atheists-I'm one o strong atheists,too...
Originally posted by Q25
if universe had no purpose it wouldnt exist,
Your conclusion does not follow from the premise. Purpose is defined as something intended. As yet we have nothing to indicate that anything that exists was the result of an intention. What we do observe are unintentional evolutionary processes.if universe had no purpose it wouldnt exist,
Ok. I'm a strong atheist. Reasons? Because I think God is an anthropomorphic creation based on an incorrect understanding of reality, and because the idea of a creator God is metaphysically illogical. Mind you, if you define God as Spinoza did then one gets into grey areas. That's the trouble with God, everyone's got their own.Originally posted by Gravage
EVERYONE is welcome,here on this debate,but I especially call STRONG ATHEISTS-please,enter if there are any of the strong atheists in these forums at al-tell me also why are you strong atheists-I'm one o strong atheists,too...