Originally posted by UltiTruth
Can I request all who are Polling to leave a small post please?
0%, did read em at the start though now i just look at the active topics and leave this religion bit
Originally posted by UltiTruth
Can I request all who are Polling to leave a small post please?
Originally posted by MarcAC
IF God knows the future and he knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him [eat from tree or pursue knowledge - whatever]. Would he just turn them into some mindless drones and let them do what he wants or would he surrender his will and let them make their decision?
Originally posted by Phrenetic
Oooh, this statement is helping me think about the way I perceive fate vs free will, such as: is it free will if someone knows with 100% certainty (in this case, god) what decision that person will make?
By the way, is god really a he?
Originally posted by MarcAC
I always strive to begin with capitals when I refer to God. Do you notice?
Originally posted by MarcAC
If I know that when you see a truck coming and you step into the road it will splatter you like pasta sauce and you step into the road would I have made you do it?
Originally posted by Phrenetic
So you are accepting that destiny and free will not only coexist but are inextricably entwined with each other? After all, it is this same sort of "predetermined free will" that defines destiny: a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency (from Merriam-Webster Online). Or would you rather revise this definition to be: "...always held to be an irresistable power or agency"?
Do you see how you responded here? Give my post a proper perusal and then think of a reply. Did you see my explanation?I kinda expected you to directly answer those NON-rhetorical questions I gave you.
"IF God exists and is not the product of human imagination wouldn't this explain why there are many rellgions of all types battling each other over all kinds of crap?"
No it wouldn't. If god is the product of imagination, THAT explains why there are so many different views. The imagination can create almost anything.
I have no idea what God was thinking. I can't say. What I can say is that before Adam and Eve deviated they did not know what evil was. They only knew good and they didn't even know that good was good. Get it? Maybe God realised that we wouldn't be able to handle the knowledge that we gained? What do you think - have we made the best use of all the knowledge we have gained over our existence? They knew what God told em and what they shouldn't do. But then the Evil One came and duped em. And in light of your question; man - as with you here - found it hard to accept the fact that he is a far lesser being than God. So He pursues his own knowledge so as to attain equality with God - now we end up even denying he exists as a part of that futile attempt."Would this mean that man in the Bible [Genesis] turned away from God and pursued his own knowledge "
Why would god expect such stupid creatures as adam and eve to understand morals and respect BEFORE they had eaten from the tree of knowlege? After we ate from the tree of knowlege, don't you think we would be able to understand a lot MORE, not less? Why would people turn away from god when they know he exists?
Such is the nature of God's love for us. You doubt too much."Wouldn't he want us to look to him and his perfect way and say that is how I want to be?"
So god needs us so that he can be happy? I doubt a god would need such small petty creatures as us.
Part of this is addressed above. These scenarios have been presented to me numerous times. What if he wanted us to 'eat' eventually? Just in case you forgot - how has man handles the knowledge he has gained throughout his existence?"Would he just turn them into some mindless drones and let them do what he wants or would he surrender his will and let them make their decision?"
That is not the only solution. He could have removed the tree of knowlege in the first place, or he could have allowed them to eat....
Remember The Exodus from Egypt? Guess He had better lesson plans than knocking down a few buildings. I don't see anyone worshipping Ra or Osiris. Do you?"Could it be that the tower of Babel was some pyramid or ziggurat dedicated to pagan gods?"
Why did he knock down babel yet did NOT knock down the pyramids or ziggurat? Plainly, the pyramids were built in worship of egyptian gods AND the worship of their petty human king.
First step to understanding the Bible is getting one and reading it."Could this mean that French reads the Bible much too literally?
Could this mean French doesn't understand the Bible? Could this mean French doesn't understand God's nature?"
Perhaps, but you aren't helping that much in that case.
Cool. Possible though. Right?"Does the name Frencheneez mean that French speaks french?"
Nope. That name is completely random.
"If I know that when you see a truck coming and you step into the road it will splatter you like pasta sauce and you step into the road would I have made you do it? "
If you forced the truck to come, and you forced "me" to step in front of it, then yes it is your fault.
IF you knew that "I" wanted to commit suicide and that I WOULD step in front of a car if it came, AND you CREATED and FORCED a truck to pass by, THEN it IS DEFINATELY your fault that I died, especially If you created me and my nature.
God KNEW that Adam and eve would eat from the tree if there was a tree there. HE creates the tree with the knowlege that they have no choice but to disobey him (because he already knows they will).
Of course, if you do not understand the fact that predestination makes freewill impossible, then you might have to disagree with me.
"Sounds strange huh?"
Just because It sounds strange in no way makes it true.
"The thing is God knows what you will do but that doesn't mean He makes you do it."
I (and noone else) ever tried to say or imply that god MADE us do what we will do. BUT our point was that if god knows exactly what we will do and when we will do it, then freewill cannot exist.
If god KNOWS what we will do, how many chioces do we have? Can we possibly make the CHOICE to go against gods knowlege of the future?
Originally posted by Xelios
I comprehend his posts alright, but his thinking is so childish and closed minded that I often ignore them. The best part of the whole deal is that he accuses everyone else of doing everything he is doing (ie. speaking unscientifically, providing unsubstantiated evidence, being closed minded etc.)
Christ, this guy's worse than tony1.
Originally posted by Xelios
Physics states that if one knows the exact location and movement of all particles in the universe at any one instant in time one can predict what the universe will look like at any instant after that.
Then you do* think that logic is universal. You have to with such an argument. I think when you try to use logic in a single dimensional sense... like you guys do... you will find contradictions. And human logic working correctly is quite an assumption... it has yet to be perfected. What usually happens when human logic meets an obstacle? What is the usual outcome?Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Are you saying that human logic may be fundementally flawed and that we simply CANNOT understand why he did these things? IF we assume that human logic works correctly, then god must have flawed logic.
Don't worry... I was reffering to mankind. Ever heard of the subconcious? Keep that in mind.It is unsettling that you don't even believe that us Atheists even have legitimate reservations about god. Do you truely think that we know god exsists yet we choose to lie to you or deny it?
So you see the futility of us arguing over it then? Good.This question is opinion. I would answer with no, but part of that opinion consists of my opinion that our knowlege created religion and that that whole endevour was a massive waste of time resources, and lives. So I don't know if that holds any meaning to you. I do, however, think we have used our knowlege quite well indeed.
Good point[aboout the non-existence of ancient egyptian religious practices] and it is consistent with your ideology, yet it does not prove anything to ME, given that my ideas are just as consistent with my ideology.
Nothing of the sort. Interesting belief. You are not atheist. You are agnostic. Well good for you. You are closer yet.I suppose. Are you hinting that god is possible, but may turn out not to exist? I DO believe that god is possible, contrary to what you may think. I just also believe that the probablity is far too low for me to have "faith" in it.
?... LataBy that definition, freewill and determinism can coexist. Yet, choice is left out, which is what most people think of as freewill. By this logic the ONLY thing that can happen is that people WILL follow their wishes.