How many sciforums muslims support the spread of sharia upon unwanting people?

[WillNever]

All must watch this CNN interview with a radical muslim terrorist to converse intellectually in this thread:

The video.

The question of this topic is as so: how many sciforums muslims agree with the spirit of this muslim radical? He dreams of subjugating the entire world and imposing sharia law upon all. He also believes that all humans (even those who are not muslims or who reject all religions) should be ruled over by the sovereignty of his lord. He opposes Barack Obama because Obama believes that "supremacy and sovereignty belong to man" instead of God.

To muslims of sciforums: do you dream of seeing sharia imposed upon people who are adverse to changing?

 

[scifes]

this is a STUPENDOUSLY AWESOME THREAD!!:xctd:

i never thought you'd contribute something this good ,will.

but since most sciforums muslims aren't around, it would really be a waste for me[and shadow maybe] to hog it on our own, especially since i'm sure this is a place where we [muslims in sciforums] greatly differ[or maybe not:scratchin].

anyway i say put this thread in the freezer and wait for sam, inzomnia, ja'far and 786 to come around, this thread'll be explosive.

because you see, here you've seriously put the nail in the head,...uh i don't wanna say why cuz then i'm starting the discussion, but anyway please hide this thread somewhere and bring it out when the time is right.
cheers

 

[WillNever]

Do you not want to commit one way or the other?

 

[Ophiolite]

Do you not want to commit one way or the other?

And expose their dastardly plans?

 

[Yazata]

The question of this topic is as so: how many sciforums muslims agree with the spirit of this muslim radical? He dreams of subjugating the entire world and imposing sharia law upon all. He also believes that all humans (even those who are not muslims or who reject all religions) should be ruled over by the sovereignty of his lord.

I'm most emphatically not a Muslim. (I'm a religious agnostic resident in California.) But it does seem to me that this kind of thinking is implicit in the structure of Islam.

Islam purports to be the final authoritative revelation of God's law for man. It has aspirations to universality and sees itself as revealing God's will for all people, everywhere. And Islam isn't just about people's personal and private spirituality, it's also a (supposedly) divinely revealed social order and it possesses an inherently political aspect.

That naturally leads to problems when Islam comes into contact with peoples who are perfectly happy with different belief systems and different social orders.

Actually, Christianity has some of the same characterisics and has experienced similar difficulties in its history. It's another univeralistic revelation from God with a 'great commission' to uproot and destroy competing beliefs. Most non-Christian parts of the world have been (and still are) plagued with Bible-waving missionaries. Some traditional cultures have been totally wiped out.

But the Western world has also been undergoing a centuries-long and sometimes very difficult historical process of modernization and secularization in which the old idea of universal 'Christendom' has slowly given way to religious pluralism and to freedom of personal choice and conscience in spiritual matters.

The process still is far from complete. There are still those who try to post the 'ten commandments' on courthouse walls Shariah-style and loudly insist that the United States is a Christian nation, subject to God's will, and that it had damn-well better shape up and act like it.

 

[dhcracker]

I agree, also agnostic. I don't want anybodies definition of "god" other than my own based on my own experience and understanding. If your religion requires you to believe you are a part of some superior faith and is somehow special or favored then your religion has to go. Christianity, Muslim, Hindu.. I don't care, its pretty childish to think that your faith started maybe thousands of years ago by people that killed women and children in most cases would reflect a "will of God".

Its pretty obvious God hasn't favored one religion or the other in its expansion or wars. Todays empires are tomorrows history. Anyone that has a faith that allows them to look down on anyone else because of faith or lack of it, is a bigot and I pity them.

 

[Michael]

I agree, also agnostic. I don't want anybodies definition of "god" other than my own based on my own experience and understanding. If your religion requires you to believe you are a part of some superior faith and is somehow special or favored then your religion has to go.

I completely agree. The only way for "has to go" to happen is through public mandated education.

What is interesting to me is that people seem to be able to reconize that teaching kids that Whites are better than Blacks, and Blacks are inferior is morally and ethically wrong but will turn right around and think teaching kids that Religion X is better than Religion Y, and ReligionY is inferior is right and good :bugeye: There are Muslims on these boards who understand "Fair and Lovely" is inciduous and repugnant yet turn right about go to the Mosque and live their life thinking lesser of other faiths - just as racists think lesser of Blacks etc....



Only proper education of children can counter this sort of brainwashing.




NOTE: I'm agnostic as well (and atheist).

 

[JuNie]

It appears everyone on this thread is Agnostic, including me. Not surprising considering this is a Science forum. I agree with a lot of what's being said here, although I will say that I don't necessarily agree that education can solve this problem of religious ideology. I know many people whom are seemingly intelligent people, but for some reason the only area of their lives where they don't think in a rational way is when it comes to the idea of God.

MY RATIONAL MIND CANNOT GRASP THIS CONCEPT OF FAITH. I CANNOT DO IT! I cannot read a religious book without thinking that what I am reading is complete nonsense. I CAN'T DO IT!

I believe it's because my father stopped going to church early on in my childhood. Could I have been equally brainwashed if I were kept in a church setting throughout my life? I don't know. Coming from the black community where around 93% of the people believe in religion, or at least believe in a deity, it is often difficult to have rational debate and intelligent conversation within the community because agnosticism and atheism is rejected...and sometimes violently rejected.

So we're dealing with people that will not hear reason. How can you honestly deal with a person like that, if intelligent debate will not work, nor education?

 

[S.A.M.]

c. I don't want anybodies definition of "god" other than my own based on my own experience and understanding. If your religion requires you to believe you are a part of some superior faith and is somehow special or favored then your religion has to go.

Do you, by any chance, see the irony there?

As for sharia law, it should, like everything else, be based on social consensus. Not always right or wrong, but social consensus is usually how societies are formed, not individual opinion on what deserves to stay or go from society. No one is that special

 

[JuNie]

Do you, by any chance, see the irony there?

As for sharia law, it should, like everything else, be based on social consensus. Not always right or wrong, but social consensus is usually how societies are formed, not individual opinion on what deserves to stay or go from society. No one is that special

I disagree. It's not simply consensus. It's an understanding of what a specific law will mean for every individual within that society.

If you recall, hundreds of years ago there was a consensus that science was heresy.

 

[S.A.M.]

I disagree. It's not simply consensus. It's an understanding of what a specific law will mean for every individual within that society.

Which is based on what?

If you recall, hundreds of years ago there was a consensus that science was heresy.

No I don't recall. When was this fantasy scenario?

 

[dhcracker]

It appears everyone on this thread is Agnostic, including me. Not surprising considering this is a Science forum. I agree with a lot of what's being said here, although I will say that I don't necessarily agree that education can solve this problem of religious ideology. I know many people whom are seemingly intelligent people, but for some reason the only area of their lives where they don't think in a rational way is when it comes to the idea of God.

MY RATIONAL MIND CANNOT GRASP THIS CONCEPT OF FAITH. I CANNOT DO IT! I cannot read a religious book without thinking that what I am reading is complete nonsense. I CAN'T DO IT!

I believe it's because my father stopped going to church early on in my childhood. Could I have been equally brainwashed if I were kept in a church setting throughout my life? I don't know. Coming from the black community where around 93% of the people believe in religion, or at least believe in a deity, it is often difficult to have rational debate and intelligent conversation within the community because agnosticism and atheism is rejected...and sometimes violently rejected.

So we're dealing with people that will not hear reason. How can you honestly deal with a person like that, if intelligent debate will not work, nor education?

You seem to be confusing the concept of God with bad religion? I know may theists who are intelligent and yet shun organized religion.. and only because how organized religions treat other human beings who disagree.

I also know some catholics that are actually not a problem and very intelligent, it depends on how people execute their faith and to what degree. I know some who are willing to say they may indeed be wrong, those are the tolerant ones I speak of.

 

[dhcracker]

Do you, by any chance, see the irony there?

As for sharia law, it should, like everything else, be based on social consensus. Not always right or wrong, but social consensus is usually how societies are formed, not individual opinion on what deserves to stay or go from society. No one is that special

Sharia law is for cavemen I'm sorry. If people choose to live that way then by definition they will be trying to force their "law" down other peoples throats.

And btw social consensus has done evil things in the past, being a majority doesn't make it correct or ethical. Cutting off a thiefs hands is a worse sin than stealing is. Stoning an adulterous wife is murder, and if you promote and encourage such things the world will hate you for it.

And no I see no irony, I am educated and I understand freedom well.. however you are not free to oppress other people and freedom doesn't require bigotry be tolerated either.

 

[Michael]

So we're dealing with people that will not hear reason. How can you honestly deal with a person like that, if intelligent debate will not work, nor education?

Start with a small amount of information and appeal to logic not emotion.

For example: teach kids what the story of Gilgamesh IS and how the story of Noah is modeled on it. Teach them the geological age and features of the earth. On their own they will question the veracity of the entire flood myth - as they grow into adults.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sharia law is for cavemen I'm sorry. If people choose to live that way then by definition they will be trying to force their "law" down other peoples throats.

Sharia law is whatever people want it to be, so if its for cavemen, thats one kind of people as well. And since you do not believe in having "law" forced down other peoples throat, you can appreciate that other people may feel the same way about what you consider "law"

And btw social consensus has done evil things in the past, being a majority doesn't make it correct or ethical. Cutting off a thiefs hands is a worse sin than stealing is. Stoning an adulterous wife is murder, and if you promote and encourage such things the world will hate you for it.

A legal system is not a popularity contest. People devise laws based on what they consider as the morally acceptable accountability for actions. You may think that cutting off someone's hand for stealing is wrong then turn around and "support troops" who commit torture and mass murder in other countries. Or live in a society thats profited and continues to profit from the economic and social oppression of millions. Thats the downside of social consensus.

And no I see no irony, I am educated and I understand freedom well.. however you are not free to oppress other people and freedom doesn't require bigotry be tolerated either.

I'm glad we agree on that point.

 

[Michael]

Once upon a time the social consensus was that dark skinned people were inferior animals and Whites should have the God given Christian right to own them as cattle. Once people were taxed for not being Christian. Even killed. It's a step backwards IMO.


The craziest thing about people who promote Sharia Law is that if Western societies were to take up Religious Law over Civil Law and went down that road, at the end of it we won't have to worry about Muslims or Islam because they won't exist. See, that's exactly what happened in the past. Christians used genocide to eradicate entire Nations of people. You don't know of these people or their religion because they don't exist. Luckily we now have a separation between Church and State.

 

[S.A.M.]

Once upon a time the social consensus was that dark skinned people were inferior animals and Whites should have the God given Christian right to own them as cattle. Once people were taxed for not being Christian. Even killed. It's a step backwards IMO.


The craziest thing about people who promote Sharia Law is that if Western societies were to take up Religious Law over Civil Law and went down that road, at the end of it we won't have to worry about Muslims or Islam because they won't exist. See, that's exactly what happened in the past. Christians used genocide to eradicate entire Nations of people. You don't know of these people or their religion because they don't exist. Luckily we now have a separation between Church and State.

Which then necessitates having things like the minaret ban, the burqa ban, the headscraf ban, sharia ban etc.

/shakes head

Nevertheless if the "once upon a time" Christian people can only feel safe and secure among people who are "like themselves" then surely, they have a right to that society. And that being so, they cannot really blame Muslims for feeling the same way, especially when they are at the receiving end of the legislations that these "once upon a time" Christians are currently imposing on them.

 

[Michael]

Which then necessitates having things like the minaret ban, the burqa ban, the headscraf ban, sharia ban etc.

/shakes head

Nevertheless if the "once upon a time" Christian people can only feel safe and secure among people who are "like themselves" then surely, they have a right to that society. And that being so, they cannot really blame Muslims for feeling the same way, especially when they are at the receiving end of the legislations that these "once upon a time" Christians are currently imposing on them.

Once upon a time Islamic people could only feel safe when they destroyed polytheistic statues and made everyone convert so they could be amoung people like themselves "good Muslims they were called". To facilitate this they even wrote taxation codes into their asinine religious book to further convert everyone not Muslim. Oh, wait, they still have these asinine religious laws on their books even in the year 2010. It's as if they are still living in the Bronze Age in 2010. It seems they now want to drag the rest of civilization down with them by getting us to go back to accepting religious law over common law.


Muslims are allowed to teach their religious intolerance in Western Nations. I don't think such is likewise in so-called Islamic Nations. Something I've never heard you rail on about. I wonder why? Do you think that's all part of Her plan? Is She readying the Earth for the return of whatsHisface? Get this, Muslims can teach that everyone not Muslim is an Infidel yet some Christian in Pakistan carries water and a Muslim drinks it and she's give the death penalty. See SAM, we do NOT want to regress back to living in the Bronze Age, worrying about Gods and making sure the goat is sacrificed just in the manner the sky daddy likes. No amount of whining is going to change that.


I wonder how welcomed Christian Klanhoods and Klan rallies would be KSA or Pakistan? I wonder: Are Christians even allowed to teach that Muslims are Heretics (say in Pakistan) or that the Qur'an is flawed? Or will that see them hung from a rope.

/shakes head at the hypocrisy/

 

[S.A.M.]

I wonder how welcomes Christian Klanhoods and Klan rallies would be KSA or Pakistan?

How would they be distinguisable from the soldiers with the democratic drones?

Here is a thought. Maybe people from western countries should think of sharia as a drone and the resulting Islamisation of their society as liberation.

 

[dhcracker]

Maybe you should build your own free society and then have your own economic powerhouse to have troops all over the world so then people can pick on your citizens instead of ours....

I have no sympathy I'm sorry, if troops are oppressing you then kick them out. You think any foreign power would be able to take over a free nation? See your muslim religion already has you a slave more or less, you have no freedom and you people don't even fight for it. You let nation after nation draw your nations borders, and you don't care so long as you get to pray 5 times a day and treat your women and poor like sub-human. Your religion is a distraction and contributing more to our troops being over there than my taxes are.

If you don't want american soldiers in your land then build a nation strong enough to keep them out, don't blame us we are simple citizens making our own way in life it matters not if we vote one way or another.. if your country is backwards and dancing in the streets when americans die.. then your probably going to have problems. Your responsible for your own countries issues not me pal, go home and fix it if you don't like it.