In light of current events I am a little bit dismayed at the people willing to take the bible literally and at there more than willingness to pick and choose what they actually believe in. If you are going to take everything literally then you should go all the way or not at all. More importantly I'm not sure I can began to understand how the bible could be taken literally when fundamental parts of the bible have been often mistranslated. A most notable mistranslation was done by the scholars of the Septuagint who mistranslated the Hebrew word for "young woman" into the Greek word for "virgin". This seems to be a big mistranslation to me. I think there are a lot of good things in the bible, but it befuddles me that anyone could read it without thinking about it and therefore take anything it says as the word of God.
How is the bible the word of god?
- Thread starter Mushin
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I sorry mushin, theres not much I can say as I agree with you.
so welcome to sciforums. however it is good fun when you point out the contradictions etc.
so welcome to sciforums. however it is good fun when you point out the contradictions etc.
The bible is the Word of God according to many many Christians. I being one of them. I and many others testify to it being the truth. We have been changed in our inner beings as a result of digesting the Word of God. This is our faith. We believe Jesus Christ died to save man and was ressurected from the dead, a pleasing sacrifice to Our Father whom we call God Almighty. We believe that He is God. The Word of God. Eternal life in Him is what we have. This is our faith.
Not everyone believes this though. Christians accept that not everyone will accept their faith. People have free will. This is a key area in the Christian faith also. People have 'free' will.
peace
c20
Not everyone believes this though. Christians accept that not everyone will accept their faith. People have free will. This is a key area in the Christian faith also. People have 'free' will.
peace
c20
Right, especially since Jesus taught in parables which were not meant to be taken literally.
spidergoat said:
Jesus was talking about Himself. He is God. Every scripture points to Him. He is alive. This is the message of Good News that is adopted by the Christian when he hears it. This is the Christian faith. The parables are clear as a bell to those who have received the Holy Spirit but this is a gift given only to those who call on the name of Jesus Christ. This is our faith. This is what we know as truth. We call Him "The Way, the Truth, and The Life", We know Him as we become like Him. This being born again is known as the work of the Helper, who is the Holy Spirit whom we have received as a result of our faith, in our calling on the name of Jesus for help, some having been ashamed and frustrated with our lives, others just through family tradition of sharing the message of Good News. We believe we make up the body of Christ. His church. We believe He is coming soon. The Spirit says "I am coming soon".
Christians welcome this return although no one knows the day nor the hour.
Jesus Christ came as a human being to redeem man by His blood, the blood of the Lamb of God. The ultimate sacrifice to guarentee eternal life with God Almighty and the Lamb of God in the Holy City. His precious blood was not for nothing. This is our faith.
Hope that helps
c20
You are the victim of a word virus, not the inheritor of the wisdom of Jesus.
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty."
Jesus, The Gospel of Thomas
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty."
Jesus, The Gospel of Thomas
Thanks to all who posted....and more specifically to c20H25N3o, you said you believe the Bible is the word of God but you didn't really explain why except that you have faith in it and I'm still curious how your faith in the bible being the word of God exists in the face of the many logical contradictions contained within the bible. If you could elaborate a bit more on that instead of on your faith in general it would be much appreciated.
The important part:
"it is you who are the sons of the living Father"
yet you place the man on a pedestal, calling him (sorry Him, how pretentious) God, a spirit, Christ, ect... invent a sacred language that means nothing- filled with capital letters, sorry, the good news has passed you by...
"it is you who are the sons of the living Father"
yet you place the man on a pedestal, calling him (sorry Him, how pretentious) God, a spirit, Christ, ect... invent a sacred language that means nothing- filled with capital letters, sorry, the good news has passed you by...
c20H25N3o said:
The Bible is NOT a literal document. Like I have said to you before, many of the stories or parables in the bible are used in a very metaphorical way, as can be seen if you study and understand the original Hebrew and Greek translations. If you really cannot come to terms with this I am a bit worried.
The "infallible word of God" tells you to love him with all of your mind, heart and soul. That means that you should be learned in why you are loving God. That means understanding the full extent of the meaning portrayed in the word of God. If you cannot come to terms with that, or like to pick and choose scripture based on what you can comprehend or want to comprehend, then I am saddened for you.
It truly is people like you that have turned me away from the church and it's followers. Read revelations, and you may see that you are the embodiment of what Jesus says is wrong with the churches of the day. Please open your eyes.
your words are difficult for you to read c20, let alone anyone else.
anyway your wrong in what you said, your will is pre-ordained by your god.
as you testify to it being the truth in you mind, then all the evil, your god has done, is true also, so not a god of love.
it's free thinking people who have free will ok.
anyway your wrong in what you said, your will is pre-ordained by your god.
as you testify to it being the truth in you mind, then all the evil, your god has done, is true also, so not a god of love.
it's free thinking people who have free will ok.
musthafakofi said:
Not true. I have a choice to submit or not.
It is best to do as ya dad tells ya though. He seems to know best.
musthafakofi said:
My God stands with arms wide open, blood from nails that attach His Holiness to a cross, crown of thorns smacked onto His Holy Head, His Holy Back lacerated and flesh rent from it, His side pierced twice. Not a bone broken. His water and blood poured out upon the earth. Crucified under Pontius Pilate. Mild and meek and humble. Holy Lamb of God. Offered up to pay for OUR SINS. God is not evil. God is merciful. Sure God has been angry with man before but He has never left us in the cold no matter how unfaithful we have been. With the exception of Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition.
The following an extract from http://www.letusreason.org/Doct48.htm
Jesus said to the multitude “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him” (John 6:64). Judas never believed even from the beginning. Jesus had known from the beginning who they were who did not believe and who would betray him.” It was more than one that had not believed. V.66 tells us many disciples left then. But from the beginning it is referring to Judas as the one who would betray him! For Jesus knew from the beginning who THEY WERE who did not believe and who WOULD be the one to betray him.
Thanks
c20
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God is merciful, yet we are instructed to murder children who are disobedient, we are told that slavery is ok, and many other abhorrant principals? Have you ever noticed that the people who follow Jesus are usually more filled with hatred than the atheist? Isn't God about love? Maybe you should learn to love, and not condemn. I bet that would help your cause. Goddamn hypocrite.
While I make no claim that there are no translation errors, this one is old and without merit. Yes, in Isaiah 7:14, the word is 'almah which means maid or unmarried girl. However, this word is never used to mean non-virgin. Being unmarried and non-virgin was at least a huge disgrace and often a death penalty situation in ancient Jewish culture. Jewish law provided that any young girl who did not wait until marriage, was to immediately marry the man with whom she had sexual relations - even if the sex was forced (rape). In scripture, a maid is always a virgin. The word does mean virgin but it also means more than that. The word maid is used here to denote not only virgin but also unmarried - which fits Mary's situation exactly.Mushin said:
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
The whole scripture is about God providing a sign to the king. What sign would there be if a young girl lost her virginity without marriage and conceived a child? This would be no sign at all but rather a great disgrace to herself and her family (which no doubt still happened from time to time). Without "virgin" there is no sign. Trying to discount that this scripture is discussing a virgin is ridiculous. Just because young women are often non-virgins in our society does not mean we can project our corrupt societal norms on a different culture in a different time.Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Notice also that the so-called translation error occured prior to Jesus' birth, so the sign still worked.
altec said:
The law of God brings death to the sinner, The mercy of God brings grace to the sinner. The Christian says "It is by grace that we live"
God's mercy is greater than His anger. If it were not for God's anger against disobedience we would not know the Father's mercy. We would not know His love for us. Remember in the beginning God said of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, "Do not touch it or you will die". He said that because He loves us. He was offering us free will. The choice was be obedient and live or be disobedient and die. God made us to fellowship with him. To be at odds with Him is to deny our purpose.
We touched it. God sealed off the Tree of Life so that those who then chose evil could not live forever. The consequences of that are felt the whole world over as the power of evil and sin take its root in humanity. Some choose good, some choose evil. Those who choose good are put to death and enslaved by those who choose evil. Those who choose good are like small children. To those children who ask He will give the right to eat from the Tree of Life because of their spirit of contrition i.e. We have sinned against you. We do not wish to be seperated from you. We thank you for Jesus whose blood covers us. We thank Jesus who is to be praised forever and ever amen.
peace
c20
I think every father lets go after some time and let his children find their own way...
Obviously you think you know him, but what about knowing about yourself? If your body is filled by someone else, you cannot konw yourself.
Mmh, I did not see your last post C20...
You lost me there, I think. Let me see, god offered us free will and we took it. As a result, our purpose is our own to make (since we have free will). But is it needful to be obedient to follow gods purpose? (How can you be disobedient to an allknowing and ever present being) God gave us free will, no matter if we follow him like sheep or make our own life, we still only use what god gave us.
Err... you are aware that every human dies? That is a biological neccessity, no matter if they are good or evil.
You lost me there, I think. Let me see, god offered us free will and we took it. As a result, our purpose is our own to make (since we have free will). But is it needful to be obedient to follow gods purpose? (How can you be disobedient to an allknowing and ever present being) God gave us free will, no matter if we follow him like sheep or make our own life, we still only use what god gave us.
Dreamwalker said:
Agreed. This is the meaning of the Prodigal Son parable.
reference : http://www.dltk-bible.com/cv/lost_son.htm
The Lost Son
This weeks parable is about the lost son. This story is also called the prodigal son. Prodigal means to spend a lot of money on things you don't need and being very wasteful with what you have. You will see that, that is exactly what this son does.
This is the parable that Jesus told: There once was a father that had two sons. One day the younger son said to his father, "Father, could you give me my inheritance?" (Inheritance is money the father would give his children after he had died.) So the father thought about it and decided his sons could have the money now, and he split it evenly between them.
Very soon after the younger son received the money, he decided that since he had so much money he would move to a different country and have some fun with it.
When he left, he left for good. He took every last thing he had and didn't plan on returning. He wanted to be grown up and spend all his money how he wanted with no one to tell him what to do.
So he just left. He left a big farm with many hired men with everything he needed, he left his family, and more importantly he left his father who trusted him enough to give him the money. This probably made his father very sad and I'm sure he missed him very much.
While the son was gone he spent all the money he had right away. He didn't think to save any of it. He ate out every meal every day, he bought fancy cars, he threw wild parties and spent money on many other things that God wouldn't be happy with.
After he had spent all his money, the country he was living in became very poor and they hardly had enough food for everyone. It was even worse for people who had no money because food became even more expensive, so it was very hard for poor people to get any food.
The son was in trouble. He had no money, no place to live, he had nothing to eat, so he had to get a job. The only job he could find was feeding pigs. He was so hungry he tried to eat the food that the pigs were eating but his boss caught him and told him if he ever saw him doing that again he would lose his job.
That night as the son was walking home his stomach wouldn't stop growling, he was so hungry. He saw some people walking towards him and he asked them if they could give him any money for food, but no one would give him anything. Everyone was so poor it was hard to share with anyone.
The son went to bed hungry and when he woke up he realized something. When he lived with his father even the hired men had more food than they needed, and now he was starving to death. At that moment he made a plan. He would go back to his father's house and say to him, 'I have sinned against God and against you. I don't deserve to be called your son, so hire me and I will work for you."
He knew that if he became like a hired man on his father's farm he would still be better off than he was right now. He would always have a warm place to stay and food to eat. So he headed for home.
It took the son a long time to get home, he was just hoping that his dad would let him work at the farm and let him be a hired man. The son was walking up the to farm but while he was still a long way off and he could see someone notice him and start to run towards him. He was sure that they must have been expecting someone else, no one would be excited to see him.
As the person got closer he realized it was his father and he was yelling, "My son! My son! You are finally home!" He couldn't believe it. His father threw his arms around him and kissed him. But the son quickly said, "Father, I have sinned against God and against you. I don't deserve to be called your son..." The son wanted to continue but the father said to one of his servants, "Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the biggest calf and kill it. Let's have a party and celebrate because my son was lost and is found!"
A little while later, the older son was working in the field and heard music and dancing. So he called to one of the servants and asked what was going on. "Your brother has come home and your father is having a party for his return."
This upset the older brother and he refused to go join the party. The father heard that he was upset, so he went to talk to him and invited him to join the party. But the son refused saying, "Look! I have been working for you all these years and I've never disobeyed you. Yet you never had a big party for me to celebrate with my friends. But now my younger brother has come home, spent all the money you gave him, and you kill the biggest calf for him!"
"But, my son," the father said, "you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. We had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was lost and now he is found."
*
In this parable the father in the story is just like God. This is how God would be if we ran away from him and we started doing things we shouldn't. He doesn't give up on us when we do things that are wrong, and he will always forgive us if we've truly changed and repent for what we've done.
Now the older brother in this story just shows how most of us would act if this happened to us. I think we would all be upset if our younger brother or sister ran away for a long time and did a whole bunch of bad things and then came home and your parents threw a big party for him.
The father who had been wronged, was forgiving. But the eldest son, who had not been wronged, was unforgiving. In this parable Jesus gives a clear picture of God and what God is like. God is truly kinder than us.
Comment by C20: We have all gone our own way. God misses us and is delighted when we return to Him .He does not remember our wrongs.
peace
c20
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Maybe, maybe, but it is not imperative that anyone has to end the way the prodigal son ended.