How did religion get started?

Xelios

We're setting you adrift idiot
Registered Senior Member
A lot of people ask how something as diverse and long lasting as religion have been created if God really doesn't exist. The following explanation not only makes perfect sense, but agrees with the Bible almost 100% (when look at it from the viewpoint of people 2000 years ago).

It's really quite simple too, and can be explained in one word... aliens. Aliens is one of those words that instantly makes people look at anything following it as either science fiction or absurd, but it really isn't if you take the time to think about it.

Here are our ancestors, 2000 years ago, with no knowlege that those points in the sky are really huge spheres of burning elements, even that there is other land in the world on the other side of the ocean. One day, some alien race decides to pay a visit. Can you imagine how any sort of technology a race capable of traveling through space like this would have? It would seem like magic even today, think of how people 2000 years ago saw it.

All the "miracles" like the parting of the water, the pillar of fire that swept up the roman army, the various healings and so on, can all be easily explained by advanced technology. Of course, these people would see these aliens as Gods (the aliens may even have sent just one representative to Earth, in the form of a human being or something). After all, what kind of being can part a sea or bring people back from death? A God of course. They had no way of knowing these were simply other beings from another planet, in their eyes they were true Gods in every sense of the word.

And not only miracles can be explained in this way. Angels for example could have been holograms. The fire of the holy spirit could have been any number of things (the aliens could have been tagging the apostles like lab specimens for all we know). Turning the river red could be easily done through the use of holograms or another type of illusionary effect.

When you look at it from this perspective it all makes perfect sense. Is it really that much harder to believe than a single omniscient being creating the entire universe in 6 days?
 
Here's one idea.....
The Indians in North America first thought of spirits because they saw steam rising from bodies. Early man first had 'Shamans' as the leader of a tribe. The Shaman was a spiritual leader as well as the political leader. So religion has been around for ages. In early human though, the religion was just about how human spirits went up to the sky after death. It just progressed as people began to have more and more abilities and less and less explinations for their growing number of questions.


Note: I hope nobody wants to correct me for calling them 'Indians'. I'm getting fed up with all these PC bastards who think they have the right to ignorantly stop people using that word. It all comes from this stupid fucking belief that Columbus called them 'Indians' because he thought he was in India. For one, a Spaniard would not make the word Indians from Indian, that's English morphing of a word, not Spanis. Seoncd; "Un genta in Dios." The words of Columbus. Know what it means? A people in God. He called them A People In God. 'in Dios'. Indians. Someone explain to me how this name is degrading? Calling them a people in god is degrading? Bullshit. Third, Hindustan. There was no India at the time. It was called Hindustan.

pc bullshit.
 
I think "Native people who were so fucking superior to you white bastards who mercilessly slaughtered them and stole thier land you horrid bad people who should feel guilty because you are white" is the politically correct term.

Or "NPWWSFSTYWBWMSTASTLYHBPWSFGBYAW"
 
Xelios,

It's really quite simple too, and can be explained in one word... aliens. Aliens is one of those words that instantly makes people look at anything following it as either science fiction or absurd, but it really isn't if you take the time to think about it.

Good point, the aliens would come from this universe, would they not? God is the Supreme Controller according to religious scripture.

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. BG.

Could this be the arrangement of God?

You seem to be hung up on Christianity being ‘religion itself’ how do you explain the Vedas, which was written 5000 years ago and accounts for religous history thousands of years before that.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
[You seem to be hung up on Christianity being ‘religion itself’ how do you explain the Vedas, which was written 5000 years ago and accounts for religous history thousands of years before that.
/QUOTE]

The Rig Veda, oldest of the Vedas, is believed to have been written around 1300-1500BC, at the time of the Aryan migration/invasion into the Inus Valley. It is possible that portions of the Vedas were being developed as early as 1700-2000BC and there is some possibilty that the oral tradition goes back even farther. However, to jump to 5000BC is a rather large leap of faith and there is no written evidence before 1500BC or so. Do you have any contradictory historical proof or references?

~Raithere

Here are some sources:

"The Rig Veda was written by the Aryans who entered the Indus Valey toward the end of the Harappan Civilization. They wrote this Veda between 1300 and 1000 BC, during the period of the Aryan Migrations. However, there may be possible Harappan influences on these works. This is because the Vedas were actually being developed before the Aryans arrived around 2000 B.C."

http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/India/RigVeda.html

"There are four Vedas, the Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda. The Vedas are the primary texts of Hinduism. They also had a vast influence on Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. The Rig Veda, the oldest of the four Vedas, was composed about 1500 B.C., and written down about 600 B.C."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/

"The earliest history of the Aryans in India is called the Rigvedic Period (1700-1000 BC) after the religious praise poems that are the oldest pieces of literature in India. These poems, the Rig Veda, are believed to represent the most primitive layer of Indo-European religion and have many characteristics in common with Persian religion since the two peoples are closely related in time. "

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/ANCINDIA/ARYANS.HTM
 
You're all full of crap.

I started religion! :p

PS: It's true because I used Big Blue Letters.
 
Ive always kinda thought that aliens is a posibility but not seriously. The easiest way to expain miricles is that they're a load of crap.

adam,

WOW your alot older than i thought :D
 
Suta Goswami said: When the second millennium overlapped the third, the great sage (Srila Vyasadeva) was born to Parashara in the womb of Satyavati, the daughter of Vasu.
Once upon a time Vyasadeva, as the sun rose, took his morning ablution in the waters of the Sarasvati (river) and sat alone to concentrate.
The great sage saw anomalies in the duties of the millennium. This happens on the earth in different ages, due to unseen forces in the course of time.
The great sage, who was fully equipped in knowledge, could see, through his transcendental vision, the deterioration of everything material, due to the influence of the age. He could also see that the faithless people in general would be reduced in duration of life and would be impatient due to lack of Goodness. Thus he contemplated for the welfare of men in all statuses and orders of life.
He saw that the sacrifices mentioned in the vedas were means by which the people’s occupations could be purified. And to simplify the process he divided the one Veda into four, in order to expand them among men.
The four divisions of the original sources of knowledge (the vedas) were made separately. But the historical facts and authentic stories mentioned in the Puranas are called the fifth Veda.
After the Vedas were divided into four divisions, Paila Reeshi became the professor of the Rg Veda, Jaimini the professor of the Sama Veda, and Vaishampayana alone became glorified by the Yajur Veda.
All these learned scholars, in their turn, rendered their entrusted Vedas unto their many disciples, granddisciples and great-granddisciples, and thus the respective branches of the followers of the Vedas came into being.
Thus the great sage Vyasadeva, who is very kind to the ignorant masses, edited the Vedas so they might be assimilated by less intellectual men.


Srimad Bhagavatam.

However, to jump to 5000BC is a rather large leap of faith and there is no written evidence before 1500BC or so. Do you have any contradictory historical proof or references?

You are so right, please forgive me;

Thereafter, in the seventeenth incarnation of Godhead, Shree Vyasadeva appeared in the womb of Satyavatee through Parashara Muni, and he divided the one Veda into several brances and sub-branches, seeing that the people in general were less intelligent.

As in the nineteenth and twentieth incarnation, the Lord advented as Himself and Lord Balarama, this advent took place about 150 years before the end of the third millenium which ended approximately 5000 years ago. So Srila Vyasadeva appearaed at the cusp of the 2nd and 3rd millenium Treta and Dwapara. Now Dwapara millenium lasts for 864,000 earth years, so try and work that one out for yourself.

As for the ‘Aryan Race’ you have no idea.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Rational thought...

Don't flame me just yet; I can justify that statement. Think about primates. They do not kill each other. And then something happened and a group of them was capable of interspecies violence. The only problem with this was, and this is pretty much undeniable, without a means of seperation and way of removing guilt/fear of killing and death, no killing occurred prior to religion. There were tribes but no sign of violence what-so-ever. And then religion was introduced in Mesopotamia. Why is this so? Simple, how does one remove that fear/guilt? Convince them that this life is only a prelude to an eternal life. That way one person can force countless others to kill and plunder for his/her gain.

The same thing occurs today.
 
religion started when we first started to give questions, when we first saw smth we could not explain

[Just another religion]
Lightning, thunder and burning pain,
striking through a nomads heart.
Holy power went through him,
and returned to the mother earth

Nameless hero gets' up and sees,
crowds gathering by his knees.
Devotions, prayers, restless cries,
just to hear his mighty voice.

Oh thee my lord,
we saw a spirit of holy sky,
go through thine body and bless thine mind,
let us pray to you.

© by Avatar especially for How did religion get started? :D
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Suta Goswami said: When the second millennium overlapped the third, the great sage (Srila Vyasadeva) was born to Parashara in the womb of Satyavati, the daughter of Vasu.

Pardon me, but "Srila Vyasadeva) was born to Parashara in the womb of Satyavati" sounds as if you mean that Parashara was Srila's mother and was still in the womb (i.e. unborn) when she gave birth to Srila. Or am I reading this wrong? Are the proper names not all referring to people? It's a bit vague.

The great sage saw anomalies in the duties of the millennium.

The duties of the millennium? A rather anthropomorphic statement, that. How does one see an anomaly in a duty? This sentence, as it stands, means nothing. As with most religious nonsense, it means nothing in and of itself. It must be sub-referenced and interpreted.

He could also see that the faithless people in general would be reduced in duration of life and would be impatient due to lack of Goodness.

Does this imply that faithlessness causes a reduction in longevity? Care to prove it empirically?

After the Vedas were divided into four divisions …. and thus the respective branches of the followers of the Vedas came into being.

Interesting historical story there but is there any outside verification of this? What documentary and/or archaeological evidence exists to support this story? Do you have any evidence this story is anything but fiction?

As in the nineteenth and twentieth incarnation, the Lord advented as Himself and Lord Balarama, this advent took place about 150 years before the end of the third millenium which ended approximately 5000 years ago.

Documentation? Evidence? Thus far I have only your word on this. It sounds self-referential as well.

As for the ‘Aryan Race’ you have no idea.

I have no idea of what? Rather presumptuous of you to state that I "have no idea" regarding any topic.

So far, you have yet to give me any evidence. Your "arguments" are akin to Christians "proving" the Bible is true by determining the age of the Earth by counting the generations listed in the Bible. Typical, theistic, self-referential nonsense.

~Raithere
 
Re: Rational thought...

Originally posted by Teg
Think about primates. They do not kill each other.

Monkeys have also been observed to murder, both each other and other species for no apparent reason (such as for food or in competition to reproduce). Sometimes they commit murder en masse... ganging up on one, unfortunate, individual and beating him to death.

Mice and rats will also kill each other and sometime thier own children for no apparent reason as well. Though some argue stress as a cause this could apply as the "reason" humans do it too. I've observed this myself.

The lie of the pacifist / "death only for necessity" aspect of nature is just that... a lie.

Conversely there is a primate species (I forget the name) where the females will diffuse male agression by proving sex on the spot. ;) Think on that a while.

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Cause you don't understand, :)

AMAZING! Jan's answers have been so concise, and complete I am now enlightened and know the secrets of the universe. :bugeye:

If anyone else would like to know, just call me at 1-900-331....

-=-=-=-=-=-

Xev,

Bonobos. Thanks!

I was thinking of flying out to join one of their packs.
Let me know if you wish to join me.

I've already adopted their philosophy:

Pleasure Eases Pain
Good Sex Defuses Tension
Affection Calms Terror
Love Lessens Violence
Females Rule
And You Can’t Very Well Fight a War While You’re Having an Orgasm

BTW This site is rather fun (warning: adult content, mature bonobos only).
http://www.blockbonobofoundation.org/

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by Raithere
Pardon me, but "Srila Vyasadeva) was born to Parashara in the womb of Satyavati" sounds as if you mean that Parashara was Srila's mother

No, Parashara was the father, that was how it was interpreted.

Or am I reading this wrong?

Or maybe just trying to make it sound so.

The great sage saw anomalies in the duties of the millennium.

Yes. Each millenium is characterized by the qualities of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, if you like I can give more detail.

The duties of the millennium?

The duties performed by the people of that millenium.

A rather anthropomorphic statement, that. How does one see an anomaly in a duty?

Anomaly means irregularity of behaviour. The peoples behaviour would become uncharacteristic of the age.

This sentence, as it stands, means nothing.

Let me help to clarify it, the great sage could see that eventually in the passing of time people would desist from their duties characterised by that millenium.

As with most religious nonsense, it means nothing in and of itself. It must be sub-referenced and interpreted.

Well you say most religious nonsense, firstly it would be nonsense to someone who cannot understand it, and secondly, what do you regard as ‘sense,’ if most is nonsense. Maybe we talk along those lines.

It sounds self-referential as well.

No, as I stated at the end, they are verses out of the Bhagavat Purana, I added nothing.

Typical, theistic, self-referential nonsense.

At present, you have a poor fund of knowledge when it comes to things spiritual, its bound to sound nonsensical to you, its like trying to explain the intricacies of life to a 3 year old.
You say you have read the BG, and make some remark about ‘reality means illusion’ being cited in it, which shows, if you have read it, you most certainly did not understand it, and now you act as if you do. That is blatant ignorance.
My advise to you is, read it, try and develop some kind of understanding, doesn’t matter how basic, then argue from that point of veiw, if you must discredit it. Finding out when it was written or who it was written by is information that has no bearing on the philosophy of truth, if it is truth it will become a part of you, depending on how much of the truth is accessable according to your conditioning.

AMAZING! Jan's answers have been so concise, and complete I am now enlightened and know the secrets of the universe.

Steady on, I did not have time to post a full post, but I see you couldn’t wait to put me down, he who says does not insult. :p

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Xelios,

You are not the first to come up with that idea... ;):)


Tyler,

The Indians in North America first thought of spirits because they saw steam rising from bodies. Early man first had 'Shamans' as the leader of a tribe. The Shaman was a spiritual leader as well as the political leader. So religion has been around for ages. In early human though, the religion was just about how human spirits went up to the sky after death. It just progressed as people began to have more and more abilities and less and less explinations for their growing number of questions.

No. Every Religion all around the world have the exact same ideas. What differentiates them is only their background, the different cultures, languages and the course it takes during History.

If you get all Religions in their beginnings all around the world you will have the exact same Religion. Concidence? No. There must be some Truth there.

Besides that, they explained everything, not "and less and less explanations"... Just read about any Religion and you will see...

Love,
Nelson
 
How did religion get started?

Religion got started when man had an urge to explain the Universe and himself. For that, he looked inside himself as it was the only place where he could find a changeless Reality, the Truth. Those who found tried to tell the others by writting Holy Books where the Truth is expressed rationally.

Words constitues about 5% of a Holy Book. The other 95% comes all from the Spirit, which is the Truth made present in one's Heart.

Explaning rationally is trying to limit what is unlimited, the Truth.
That's why words are not enought and experience is made necessary.

Love,
Nelson
 
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