How did a Jewish Rabbi (Jesus Christ) end up to be "son" of God?

Iasion,

This is perhaps off topic, but I just wanted to say that I find your posts most erudite and well researched. Seeing as you're fiercely denying the existence of Jesus (which I have no problem with), I find your choice of the sobriquet very amusing.

Best,
Circe
 
Greetings,

Other cultures may have had this belief before them, but that does not mean they had to "lift" it from anyone else.

Mate - what IS yout point?

Celsus claimed the Christians copied the virgin birth story from the Greeks.

Do you agree or not?

Because that is what the facts show :
That Celsus claimed the Christians copied the virgin birth story from the Greeks.

I cannot fathom what your point is anymore - it seems you have a big problem with the word "lift" - why?


Iasion
 
Greetings,

I read your posts Iasion.
I'm not an atheist ( spiritual in nature but not belonging to any specific religion) but I can apreciate your research into the topic at hand.

Thank you :)


The problem with so much religion,especially the Abrahamic faiths, is they dwell way,way too much on the myth in religous texts as being reality and follow a very narrow minded view of God as seen thru the prejudiced eyes of ancient peoples.

Indeed - just look at Woody.
Very sad.

Iasion
 
Greetings,

Iasion,
This is perhaps off topic, but I just wanted to say that I find your posts most erudite and well researched.

Thank you kindly :)


Seeing as you're fiercely denying the existence of Jesus (which I have no problem with), I find your choice of the sobriquet very amusing.

Best,
Circe

Fantastic :)

You are the first person EVER to know who Iasion was - great work.


Iasion
 
Iasion,

This is perhaps off topic, but I just wanted to say that I find your posts most erudite and well researched. Seeing as you're fiercely denying the existence of Jesus (which I have no problem with), I find your choice of the sobriquet very amusing.

Best,
Circe

In other words "keep it up".

And regardless of any argument you or anyone else presents, the WORDS you DENY ring true with all His believers:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

WE believers need no further evidence. We hear His voice and you do not:

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The non-believers consider our faith to be foolish. Believers hear His voice and you can not.

As they say in geometry QED.
 
Greetings,

For centuries, they lived with the stigma of MURDERING their own MESSIAH.

Rubbish.
They do not consider Jesus "their own Messiah".


You are not a Hebrew scholar. The Hebrew Scholars know what the verse means.

Hebrew scholars agree it is NOT a prophecy about Jesus.
But you don't seem to know that.


I heard you say that the first time, however, the fact is our calendar is set around an event that happened two thousand years ago, do you remember me saying that or do you just remember what you say?

You mean ONE of our calendars - so what?

We name days after Gods - e.g. Thor - therefore, according to YOUR argument - Thor is real.

We name months after Gods - therefore, according to YOUR argument - Juno is real.

You just don't grasp that you argument is nonsense.


As I said before, and you ignore, it doesn't matter whether Paul said it or not. He is on record saying it,

I see,
so even if Paul did NOT say it,
Christian LIES that he did are proof in your eyes?

Incredible.


The fact is they were executed for the treason of claiming their god was above rome and all it's dieties. There is no mention that I can find that shows otherwise.

Rubbish.
There is no evidence of that - just later legends.


A spiritual being crucifying another spiritual being. Have any evidence? Let's see it. According to who?

According to Paul - Jesus was crucified by the archontai - the spiritual beings of the higher planes.

But of course, you haven't read Paul.


By the way don't expect me to read all 200 something of your posts if you already mentioned it somewhere. I don't expect you to read my 2000 something posts.

Pathetic excuse.
I showed you were wrong MANY TIMES - you ignored every case.

Such as the Dead Sea Scrolls - you claimed they confirmed the Gospel events.

Of course, the facts are the exact opposite - the DSS do NOT mention the Gospel events at all.

Naturally,
you dropped that subject when I showed you were wrong, like you drop every subject when shown wrong (or just keep preaching.)


Iasion
 
Greetings,



Rubbish.
They do not consider Jesus "their own Messiah".

I DID not say they consider Jesus their own messiah. Get a hearing aid.


Hebrew scholars agree it is NOT a prophecy about Jesus.
But you don't seem to know that.

I know plenty of Jews and I know what they say about Jesus. Do you know any Jews?

You mean ONE of our calendars - so what?

I assume you use the lunar calendar instead. It fits.

We name days after Gods - e.g. Thor - therefore, according to YOUR argument - Thor is real.
Who were his earthly parents?
Where was he born?
When was he born?
Where did he die?
How old was he when he died?
How many people have seen him and written thusly?
Where are the real places that he visited in his lifetime?
Where is the real place that he grew up?
Who were the governors in charge?
How many brothers sisters and cousins did he have?
Do you have any of his direct quotes?
What languages were they originally written in?
and most importantly, Why doesn't anyone believe the accounts today?

I don't hear of a cult following Thor. Whatever he had to say just doesn't seem to matter to anybody. Poor Thor. He had a nice marvel comic book written about him though. LOL (does anyone take you seriously?)

We name months after Gods - therefore, according to YOUR argument - Juno is real.

The people that gave Juno a name were real.

You just don't grasp that you argument is nonsense.

Actually I think you miss it. Details mean a lot. With the myth theory, you must come up with a reasonable scenario that makes it viable. You fail to do so when it come to details.

I see,
so even if Paul did NOT say it,
Christian LIES that he did are proof in your eyes?

Incredible.

No you are just hard at hearing, because that is not what I said. I'm tired of saying it and my wording is quite clear regarding treason and it's consequence. Show me in the history texts where any christian was put to death for falsely believing that Rome murdered an innocent man named Jesus -- a treasonous act. If Jesus did not exist as you say, then this issue should matter considerably -- a man unjustly executed by the Roman govenment that supposedly didn't exist. Wouldn't Rome and the Jewish leaders have at least an inkling to rectify this "error"? I guess you just don't see it. They failed.



Rubbish.
There is no evidence of that - just later legends.

Fine you just go ahead and believe that. I don't care.



According to Paul - Jesus was crucified by the archontai - the spiritual beings of the higher planes.

But of course, you haven't read Paul.

So where is this document of Paul's that I haven't read. I've read the New Testament through about 20 times from cover to cover.


Pathetic excuse.
I showed you were wrong MANY TIMES - you ignored every case.

I think your use of the word "ignore" is poorly communicated. I read what you said and do not necessarily agree with it. You indicate that I did not read it at all. I think that is a communication problem on your behalf. Could you please do something about it?


Such as the Dead Sea Scrolls - you claimed they confirmed the Gospel events.

Of course, the facts are the exact opposite - the DSS do NOT mention the Gospel events at all.

I guess you didn't read the references provided. It's in there.

Naturally,
you dropped that subject when I showed you were wrong, like you drop every subject when shown wrong (or just keep preaching.)

Iasion

You sound like a fussy old woman.
 
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Greetings,

I DID not say they consider Jesus their own messiah. Get a hearing aid.

YOU said they crucifed their "own messiah".
Wrong.



I know plenty of Jews and I know what they say about Jesus. Do you know any Jews?

You said "Hebrew scholars".
You were wrong.
Now it's "Jews you know".
What next?



Show me in the history texts where any christian was put to death for falsely believing that Rome murdered an innocent man named Jesus -- a treasonous act.

What?
Show me the history sources for Jesus being murdered in Jerusalem.
There are none.


So where is this document of Paul's that I haven't read. I've read the New Testament through about 20 times from cover to cover.

So you skipped over the bit about the "archontai" ?



I guess you didn't read the references provided. It's in there.

Liar.
You provided no references showing the DSS supporting the Gospel events.

The DSS does NOT mention anything about the Gospels events or Jesus at all.

You LIED outright.



Iasion
 
Greetings,



YOU said they crucifed their "own messiah".
Wrong.

From an outsider's perspective they killed another one of their prophets. They killed about all their prophets by the way.


You said "Hebrew scholars".
You were wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#The_Project

The King James Version was translated by 47 scholars (although 54 were originally contracted) working in six committees, two based in each of the University of Oxford, the University of Cambridge, and Westminster.

You are absolutely right Iasion. Only blithering idiots attend Oxford, Cambridge and Westminister. Any fool knows that. My humblest aplologies. These were not scholars, rather they were just flunkies wearing dunce caps.

First Oxford Company, translated from Isaiah to Malachi:
John Harding, John Rainolds (or Reynolds), Thomas Holland, Richard Kilby, Miles Smith, Richard Brett, Daniel Fairclough;

Yeah, Oxford is the dumbest of the three. Yer right, I'm wrong. :D


Now it's "Jews you know".

Yep, I know several, how many do you know? (I ask again)


What next?

Don't know



What?
Show me the history sources for Jesus being murdered in Jerusalem.
There are none.

It's in my bible. My bible says you are a liar.

So you skipped over the bit about the "archontai" ?

Ain't in my bible. Sorry. I mean I read about the spiritual wickedness in high places and such, but the holy spirit tells me you are in error. I'm sorry your heart can't hear him, and your voice is not his.

John 10:

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Tell 'em JESUS!!!!



Speak for yourself.

You provided no references showing the DSS supporting the Gospel events.

They are there if you look. I'm sorry you didn't look.

The DSS does NOT mention anything about the Gospels events or Jesus at all.

OK, it doesn't say anything to you, but it says it to me.

You LIED outright.

Nope. Sorry but I feel like you're the liar here.

Iasion[/QUOTE]
 
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Nope. Sorry but I feel like you're the liar here.

YOU claimed the DSS supported the Gospel events.

I pointed out the FACTS :
that the DSS does NOT mention ANYTHING about the Gospel events.

YOU then claimed you had posted the actual evidence.

Anyone can read this post and see you did NOT.

You LIED.

Either :
*show where you posted this evidence,
or
* admit you lied.

Iasion
 
Incredible !

You REALLY don't know who/what the "archontai" are?

And you pretend to know the Bible?

What a laugh.


Iasion

I'm not laughing. My bible says there's a curse on you.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
There it is. I'm glad I'm not you.

You preach on and on about another gospel -- a Jesus that did not die on the cross for our sins -- that did not shed his blood according to the OT law that requires a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Then you go on to say the bible has no more credibility than pagan norse mythology. Hence you have no credibility at all with me.
 
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Woody: From an outsider's perspective they killed another one of their prophets. They killed about all their prophets by the way.

You are absolutely right Iasion. Only blithering idiots attend Oxford, Cambridge and Westminister. Any fool knows that. My humblest aplologies. These were not scholars, rather they were just flunkies wearing dunce caps.

It's in my bible. My bible says you are a liar.

Ain't in my bible. Sorry. I mean I read about the spiritual wickeness in high places and such, but the holy spirit tells me you are in error. I'm sorry you can't hear him like I hear him, and your voice is not his.

OK, it doesn't say anything to you, but it says it to me.

Nope. Sorry but I feel like you're the liar here.

*************
M*W: He who provides NO evidence is the liar.

He who hears voices talking in his head is schizophrenic.

He who believes his bible calls other people liars is delusional.

He who believes blindly cannot debate with any credibility.

He who continues this mindless drivel should be banned permanently.

Thus sayeth the Medicine*Woman.
 
*************
M*W: He who provides NO evidence is the liar.

He who hears voices talking in his head is schizophrenic.

He who believes his bible calls other people liars is delusional.

He who believes blindly cannot debate with any credibility.

He who continues this mindless drivel should be banned permanently.

Thus sayeth the Medicine*Woman.

That's why you are on my ignore list.
 
Except he was never a Rabbi.
A rabbi is simply a teacher. That's the basic meaning of the word. Rabbis are not ordained or even diplomated. The congregation of a synagogue formally hires their teacher and pays him so he is without question a professional rabbi. But any Jewish man (or woman in some communities) can go around teaching and if he has some minimal talent and a positive impact he is entitled to be called a rabbi.

Jesus (taking him as a real historical person for the sake of the argument) was rather humble so he probably would never have referred to himself as a rabbi. But that doesn't mean he wasn't one. He did seem to go around teaching folks stuff and trying to make the world a better place. That is just so rabbinical.
 
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