Your misunderstanding of those laws and your fallacious application of them are the problem here.
No, something outside those laws did NOT necessarily create them, that is an absolute bogus conclusion.
How can you have evidence for God?
- Thread starter Norsefire
- Start date
Your misunderstanding of those laws and your fallacious application of them are the problem here.
No, something outside those laws did NOT necessarily create them, that is an absolute bogus conclusion.
snake river rufus
Registered Senior Member
Their superstition (god) is what created the cosmos. Completely w/o evidence, they make this claim.
snake river rufus
Registered Senior Member
Again, the rules of formal logic prove this.
snake river rufus
Registered Senior Member
Those theists do not think they are superstitious.
Is what they think and know completely irrelevant to you?
Do you think you can just make claims in their stead?
The rules of formal logic prove that something is true?
(P1) All turtles have wings.
(P2) All horses are turtles.
(C) All horses have wings.
True, innit?
Humans are naturally prone to value things that result in pleasure... rather than neutrality or pain. We're not organisms whom function to understand truth... we function to persist.
Last edited:
There's no philosophy involved. Our universe is neutral... it has no hostile or non-hostile intent (it has no intent in general).
Information (whether it's true or false) can result in a person feeling pleasure, feeling neutrality, or feeling pain. Humans are strongly drawn to things that result in pleasure; therefore, it's no surprise that they will value things that cause pleasure over things that don't. It is natural for humans to value this emotional satiation more than truth.
A person whom values truth above emotional satiation can lead a happy life just as anyone can. They may or may not have have more moments of neutrality and / or pain because they accept all information that is truth. All non-truth can simply be rejected.
A person whom values emotional satiation above truth can lead a happy life just as anyone can. They are going to be moments-of-pleasure heavy because they accept all information that makes them feel good. Some of that information might even be truth; however, all truth (and non-truth) that might result in neutrality / pain can simply be rejected.
snake river rufus
and that is somehow more logical than defaulting to the empirical?
(IOW if there is no empirical evidence for a claim, like say abiogenesis, why suggest that it is true?)
and that is somehow more logical than defaulting to the empirical?
(IOW if there is no empirical evidence for a claim, like say abiogenesis, why suggest that it is true?)
given that there is no empirical evidence to suggest that the manifestation of the universe does not require god (in fact explaining the beginnings of the existence of reality while relying on empiricism is as practicable as jumping over one's knees), it still remains unclear how you have the logical upper hand.
relationships of contingency can still be explained between eternal agencies.
For example
Suppose there was an eternal fire. It would also have eternal smoke and heat although both these aspects would clearly be contingent on the fire. IOW the only reason the smoke and heat is eternal is because the fire is eternal.
Similarly, the laws that govern the material manifestation can be indicated as eternal yet contingent on god, simply because god is eternal.
Jesus loves you all.
And I love him. However, that does not mean I have to worship him or believe in God.
Anything important/not self-fulfilling proclaimed to be truth in any sort of religious text actually happens would be probably enough proof for everyone
I was actually referring to Jesus 'n Friends. I entertain opposing views all the time. I consider the religious views so often that the theists wonder why us atheists seem obsessed with religion. Don't be so defensive, It never crossed my mind that you had a hidden agenda. It's possible to hold an opinion and have an intelligent debate at the same time.
How can you have evidence for a God, indeed. You tell me. If it's not falsifiable, it has no utility as a hypothesis.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Well, all of the most thoughtful Religions hold that God is Transcendent, as it would be almost logically necessary to say so. Just as far as Definition goes, God cannot be part of the Universe without blurring the lines of distinction between the Divine and the Mondane.
However, what we are REALLY interested in is not so much evidence in the favor of proving a God, pointing to physical properties -- Angel Feathers or whatever. What we are REALLY concerned with is evidence in favor of any particular Religion.
Here we would turn to evidence of Providentiality. here we find very few instances where the Transcendent All Highest God was caught adding cookies to any particular cooky jar. But what we do have is annecdotal assertions that particular Saints, Angels or Apparritions, as AGENCIES of God, had interceded for Good and Benefit. Now, of course, ordinary good deeds would not count, except in a human way, much to be appreciated, but there is a large body of anecdotal evidence for Miraculous, supernatural interventions and intercessions.
Indeed, I suspect there is a reason why Atheists always want to get back to the lack of evidence for a Transcendent God, as it pulls attention away from what we have plenty of, and that is evidence in favor of some Religions over others. For instance, Protestantism has gone 500 years without its first Saint or Miracle. But Catholicism has long lists of Christ-Like Saints, as does Sufism and Hinduism. For all the Pro-Buddhist Propaganda, they have done about as well as the Protestants, and using much the same Arguments -- that Miracles are a sign of the Devil or a Temptation away from the True Path.
However, what we are REALLY interested in is not so much evidence in the favor of proving a God, pointing to physical properties -- Angel Feathers or whatever. What we are REALLY concerned with is evidence in favor of any particular Religion.
Here we would turn to evidence of Providentiality. here we find very few instances where the Transcendent All Highest God was caught adding cookies to any particular cooky jar. But what we do have is annecdotal assertions that particular Saints, Angels or Apparritions, as AGENCIES of God, had interceded for Good and Benefit. Now, of course, ordinary good deeds would not count, except in a human way, much to be appreciated, but there is a large body of anecdotal evidence for Miraculous, supernatural interventions and intercessions.
Indeed, I suspect there is a reason why Atheists always want to get back to the lack of evidence for a Transcendent God, as it pulls attention away from what we have plenty of, and that is evidence in favor of some Religions over others. For instance, Protestantism has gone 500 years without its first Saint or Miracle. But Catholicism has long lists of Christ-Like Saints, as does Sufism and Hinduism. For all the Pro-Buddhist Propaganda, they have done about as well as the Protestants, and using much the same Arguments -- that Miracles are a sign of the Devil or a Temptation away from the True Path.
Faith must come from within yourself first, I won't be able to prove god to anybody. But it's possible to prove it to yourself, stop thinking about your existence for a while and look at the world and the universe. Look what has been created, trust in god and use your own heart and sense of judgement to live your life, talk to god and tell him what your thinking.
peace.
peace.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Or they always were in some form or another.
Death is all the evidence you need.
Some people will become incredulous when told that war has never killed anyone, nor famine, nor disease, and that no one has ever been murdered or killed themselves.
There is no coming back to the world from death.
Some people will become incredulous when told that war has never killed anyone, nor famine, nor disease, and that no one has ever been murdered or killed themselves.
There is no coming back to the world from death.