Heh! Wow... you just contradicted yourself big time.
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How can you have evidence for God?
- Thread starter Norsefire
- Start date
Heh! Wow... you just contradicted yourself big time.
There is certianly irrefutable evidence for a creationary force above and beyond all laws of physics or comprehension. It is impossible to have an infinite series of cause and effect. Impossible under any circumstances that anyone could create or even imagine. Yet the universe is here. Something had to start it all, and that something must have always existed. That doesn't prove a god of the bible, but it does prove there is something out there above and beyond all science.
given that transcendental claims exist outside of empirical means of investigation,
So how can someone come to believing something which is metaphysical? I think it's rather obvious how people arrive at such things. Billions of people believe contradicting metaphysical claims which means they are simply pulling it out of their ass. No matter what you say, you can't get over that hurdle that it simply doesn't exist.
your statement is just like saying that no data collected by a thermometer supports the idea of telling exactly what time it is.
That's what clocks are for. So what method do we use to prove that metaphysical claims are not simply pulled out of a persons rectum?
There is certianly irrefutable evidence for a creationary force above and beyond all laws of physics or comprehension. It is impossible to have an infinite series of cause and effect. Impossible under any circumstances that anyone could create or even imagine. Yet the universe is here. Something had to start it all, and that something must have always existed. That doesn't prove a god of the bible, but it does prove there is something out there above and beyond all science.
This explains presicely nothing
Speaking of contradictions; The law of conservation of mass, which is a scientific law, not a theory, says that matter CANNOT be created or destroyed. Ever seen any matter? Somehow the universe is filled with trillions upon trillions of tons of matter that ,according to science, cannot be created.
I wasn't attempting to explain God, but science simply can't explain, and nor will it ever be able to explain the beginning. That's because everything in science is cause and effect. And, as I've already stated, and I hope you'll agree, you can't have an infinite series of cause and effect. It had to start somewhere.
I wasn't attempting to explain God, but science simply can't explain, and nor will it ever be able to explain the beginning. That's because everything in science is cause and effect. And, as I've already stated, and I hope you'll agree, you can't have an infinite series of cause and effect. It had to start somewhere.
Why can't you have an infinite series of cause and effect?
That is why I will never understand atheists. Agnostics I can understand. They believe that the question of God is too big to comprehend. They simply don't know. Atheists are certain there is no god even with absolute proof of a creationary force. How can anyone actually think they are smart enough to know for sure there is no God.
That is why I will never understand atheists. Agnostics I can understand. They believe that the question of God is too big to comprehend. They simply don't know. Atheists are certain there is no god even with absolute proof of a creationary force. How can anyone actually think they are smart enough to know for sure there is no God.
That is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Outside of this universe or when this universe was in it's primal state, I don't think you can then make such assertions about cause and effect and time.
Failing that, I'll settle for a logical hypothetical explanation of how something could happen without a cause.
I don't know is the answer. But I am confused as to how you know any different?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't stated any opions yet, or claimed to "know any different". I simply can't believe that anyone could possibly argue that you can have an inifinite series of cause and effect. If anyone has an argument for that I would love to hear it. It would probably be the most fascinating thing I've ever heard. I don't believe that argument exists, but if it does I want to hear it. Failing that, I have to stick with my belief that it is impossible.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't stated any opions yet, or claimed to "know any different". I simply can't believe that anyone could possibly argue that you can have an inifinite series of cause and effect. If anyone has an argument for that I would love to hear it. It would probably be the most fascinating thing I've ever heard. I don't believe that argument exists, but if it does I want to hear it. Failing that, I have to stick with my belief that it is impossible.
Well you have stated opinion that infinite series of cause and effect is impossible. You are using Earthly notions of time, dimensions, space, "cause and effect" as understood by humans and applying it to something we know absolutely nothing about.
Well then GOD should know what "he" created. So you put us here to fight amongst ourselves. Because he should have known, should have known the limitations we have.
I am going to take these living things that cannot get along and put them in a jar. i dont understand that.
I will agree with you here. I don't understand this either. However, I am assuming that if a god did create the universe that, as the bible says, his ways are higher than my ways. Or in other words, to expect that I should understand the mind of the creater of the universe is a bit egotistical.
If he is there and he did create us, I would sure like to ask him to do some things differently, but to assume that because I don't understand, he couldn't exists just isn't a sound argument.
Well you have stated opinion that infinite series of cause and effect is impossible. You are using Earthly notions of time, dimensions, space, "cause and effect" as understood by humans and applying it to something we know absolutely nothing about.
I don't believe my statements about cause and effect are opinions at all. And, I am not "using Earthly notions" of anything. Cause and effect applies to the universe long before the earth ever existed. Part of me thinks you are just being adversarial if you truly dispute this. But rather than form my own opinions, I will ask you. Do you believe you can have an effect without a cause? Do you truly believe you can have an ifninite series of cause and effect?
Do you believe you can have an effect without a cause? Do you truly believe you can have an ifninite series of cause and effect?
I dunno. And I dunno how you can know one way or another either.
I would also suggest that you yourself have evidence for what you believe, you don't believe it for no reason. It's just that this evidence doesn't rise to the standards of reliable evidence.
Incorrect. Science is not limited to natural phenomenon, but to everything that can be observed, directly or indirectly. I agree it cannot rule out the supernatural, but no evidence has yet been observed to support it. Therefore, the idea of the supernatural is as yet a failed hypothesis, and should not be believed by any rational people.
And every successful student and business person know how important it is to transcend "rationality" and instead sometimes act "irrational" if one wants to succeed.
When all "evidence that meets the standards of reliable evidence" points in the direction that a particular feat cannot be done -such as studying a whole textbook within a weekend or starting an online business as the sole source of income (some years ago, this was deemed an impossibility)- the person determined to succeed will ignore this evidence, ignore "rationality" and instead give the feat a try. And some succeed.
It is easy to be "rational", but it may cost you a lot - it may cost you success and happiness as you wait for the "reliable evidence" to be collected by others.
A superstition is not the cause of anything.
Oh, but it is. Superstition can be the cause of more superstitiin, and the cause of a lot of suffering.