How can Evolution explain the existence of Dragons?

[GaiaGirl95]

Evolution claims that vertebrates originated from a fish that had four fins. Every vertebrate has four limbs aside from dragons, which have forelegs, hindlegs, and a third set of limbs, which includes the wings. Scientifically speaking, insects can have more than 4 limbs, but they evolved from an entirely different line and colonized land much earlier than terrestrial vertebrate counterparts. How can evolution explain the existence of an animal that people have been seeing for thousands of years? Dragons are portrayed as reptiles and can only be realistically classified as such - the wings are not merely stumps but they have the ability of full uncompensated flight, in the manner of a bat or pterosaur, but pterosaurs had 4 limbs - 2 legs and 2 ''arms'' (which were wings).

Another problem with evolution is the existence of an oceanic dragon counterpart called the sea serpent. The sea serpent is not a snake, as it undulates vertically, forming many prominent arches above the water as a means of propulsion. From an evolutionary standpoint, evolution says that this cannot have evolved because reptiles do not undulate vertically and this would be an inefficient mode of propulsion, but thousands of honest people have seen them and the reports are way too consistent to dismiss or rule out as misidentification.

 

[exchemist]

Evolution claims that vertebrates originated from a fish that had four fins. Every vertebrate has four limbs aside from dragons, which have forelegs, hindlegs, and a third set of limbs, which includes the wings. Scientifically speaking, insects can have more than 4 limbs, but they evolved from an entirely different line and colonized land much earlier than terrestrial vertebrate counterparts. How can evolution explain the existence of an animal that people have been seeing for thousands of years? Dragons are portrayed as reptiles and can only be realistically classified as such - the wings are not merely stumps but they have the ability of full uncompensated flight, in the manner of a bat or pterosaur, but pterosaurs had 4 limbs - 2 legs and 2 ''arms'' (which were wings).

Another problem with evolution is the existence of an oceanic dragon counterpart called the sea serpent. The sea serpent is not a snake, as it undulates vertically, forming many prominent arches above the water as a means of propulsion. From an evolutionary standpoint, evolution says that this cannot have evolved because reptiles do not undulate vertically and this would be an inefficient mode of propulsion, but thousands of honest people have seen them and the reports are way too consistent to dismiss or rule out as misidentification.

………...here we go again………….more provocative trolling………..

I urge serious contributors not to get involved - it only encourages him.

 

[GaiaGirl95]

I advise you read the article on the Lake Chelan Dragon, as well as sea serpent sightings. Keep an open mind. We haven't discovered every animal on the planet.

 

[Read-Only]

………...here we go again………….more provocative trolling………..

I urge serious contributors not to get involved - it only encourages him.

I agree completely. I'd already decided not to waste another single moment replying to ANY of his posts. They are always idiotic anyway.

 

[GaiaGirl95]

I agree completely. I'd already decided not to waste another single moment replying to ANY of his posts. They are always idiotic anyway.

Yet again ANOTHER ignorant person who cannot accept that not every animal in this vast world has been scientifically documented...

 

[Rav]

Too easy.

On the evolution of the imagination:

Why Did We Evolve Imaginations?

The Evolved Imagination: Animals as models of their world

The Evolution of Imagination: An Archaeological Perspective

On the evolution of the dragon:

A scientific analysis of the morphological variation and hypothetical evolutionary relationships among dragons based on their portrayal in historical art and literature

 

[billvon]

Every vertebrate has four limbs aside from dragons, which have forelegs, hindlegs, and a third set of limbs, which includes the wings . . .How can evolution explain the existence of an animal that people have been seeing for thousands of years?

They evolved from the same line as centaurs, fairies, hippogriffs and Pegasus.

 

[GaiaGirl95]

Too easy.

On the evolution of the imagination:

Why Did We Evolve Imaginations?

The Evolved Imagination: Animals as models of their world

The Evolution of Imagination: An Archaeological Perspective

On the evolution of the dragon:

A scientific analysis of the morphological variation and hypothetical evolutionary relationships among dragons based on their portrayal in historical art and literature

Well maybe youre onto something because if you look it up there have been many sightings of fairies as well as dragons too consistent with each other for them to be dismissed.

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

Now I'm convinced. GagaBoy is nothing but a troll. Onto my Ignore list he goes.

 

[origin]

………...here we go again………….more provocative trolling………..

I urge serious contributors not to get involved - it only encourages him.

Agreed, he/she/it is simply trolling and not trolling very well, I might add.

 

[Rav]

Well maybe youre onto something because if you look it up there have been many sightings of fairies as well as dragons too consistent with each other for them to be dismissed.

Perusal of a case study or two is all that's required to get a feel for how it is not only possible but probable that similar ideas will pop up in different places largely independently of each other. And this is somewhat beyond the rather elementary realization that since all human beings share a basic common psychology, there are undoubtedly principles similar to Jungian Archetypes in play. Further, and very much related, there is the matter of sociocultural evolution:

"At the opposite extreme stand archaeologists such as Sally McBrearty and Alison Brooks, who argue that the original 'human revolution' theory reflects a profound Eurocentric bias. Recent archaeological evidence, they argue, proves that humans evolving in Africa some 300,000 or even 400,000 years ago were already becoming cognitively and behaviourally 'modern'. These features include blade and microlithic technology, bone tools, increased geographic range, specialized hunting, the use of aquatic resources, long distance trade, systematic processing and use of pigment, and art and decoration. These items do not occur suddenly together as predicted by the ‘‘human revolution’’ model, but at sites that are widely separated in space and time. This suggests a gradual assembling of the package of modern human behaviours in Africa, and its later export to other regions of the Old World." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution_(origins_of_society_and_culture)

Even if you do not subscribe to that particular theory, it seems somewhat obvious that at some point in human history, initial social, cultural and cognitive attributes were fleshed and became the basis of things to come. A sort of "common ancestor" of modern human behaviours if you like.

And then of course there is the matter of cultural traits spreading from one society to the other. Obviously this was not always a global occurrence, but it doesn't need to be to explain what we see today.

Anyway, onto the aforementioned case study:

The Origin of Dragons

 

[Russ_Watters]

Also may want to look up the definition of "insect"...

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Every vertebrate has four limbs . . . .

Huh? Snakes are a suborder of reptiles, one of the five classes of vertebrates, and they have zero limbs. Fish comprise an entire class of vertebrates, and they have only two limbs.

By focusing on the subphylum vertebrates instead of the entire phylum chordates, you conveniently ignore the subphylum of cartilaginous fishes. This includes the eels, which also have zero limbs.

As for your question, "How can evolution explain the existence of [dragons]," the scientific method requires us to first ask you a question: Where is your evidence for the existence of dragons? There has never been a verified, respectable sighting of a dragon since the dawn of science half a millennium ago.

Another problem with evolution is the existence of an oceanic dragon counterpart called the sea serpent.

Again, there have been no verified, respectable sightings of sea serpents in the last 500 years. The few photos are too indistinct to serve as evidence. There is practically an around-the-clock watch for the Loch Ness monster, yet a convincing photo has never shown up in a scientific journal.

thousands of honest people have seen them . . . .

This is enough to inspire science to devote some of its finite resources to the search, but until we get a decent photo the existence of sea serpents remains merely a hypothesis with virtually no evidence.

. . . . and the reports are way too consistent to dismiss or rule out as misidentification.

Of course the reports are consistent. Everybody "knows" what a sea serpent looks like, so that's what their brain sees.

Duh?

 

[Olinguito]

Snakes are a suborder of reptiles, one of the five classes of vertebrates, and they have zero limbs.

Snakes do have limbs; they’re just vestigial structures.

Reptiles, along with amphibians, birds and mammals, belong to the superclass Tetrapoda (four-limbed vertebrates).

 

[spidergoat]

Science is under no obligation to explain things that haven't been discovered yet.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Science does not explain unicorns, peaguses, and alicorns, but dear god they are adorable!

 

[Sorcerer]

The mods should really, really delete this rubbish.

 

[Mathers2013]

There are such things as Komodo dragons...do they count?

 

[wellwisher]

A dragon is a projection from the unconscious mind and symbolizes the unconscious mind in a crude primeval sense. The dragon is a cold blooded animal and therefore is connected to base instinct, reflex, habit, without emotions.

In tradition, the hero must confront the dragon and defeat it to obtain the treasure which is hard to obtain. This treasure is symbolic of ego consciousness in the enlightened sense, free from unconscious compulsions and projections. In that respect, the dragon is part of the brain's firmware, in general, and the evolution of the secondary center of consciousness; ego, in particular, which can choose apart from unconscious compulsion; free will and choice.

In the earliest days of ego consciousness, the dragon or unconscious mind would overwhelm the early ego with very few people having a platform of willful consciousness free from compulsion. The dragon, in Christian symbolism, is often associated with Satan, which is connected to unconscious compulsions and addictions. In middle age alchemy, the dragon was a symbol of transformation in the sense that the appearance of the dragon projection led to the opportunity for transformation. The knight cannot defeat the dragon until it appears and can be found. As long as the dragon lies hidden, it is fully unconscious, so there is no way to defeat him for self actualization. One remain partially unconscious such as with herd instinct. One would need to induce the dragon and get him to appear.

All and all, the dragon is connected to command lines for the brain's evolving operating system.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

The mods should really, really delete this rubbish.

This isn't my territory, but I'm sure that as long as people remain polite it will be tolerated. Remember, we have a large contingent of very young members. It's useful for them to watch the scientific method in action. Particularly the Rule of Laplace:

Extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before we are obliged to treat them with respect.​

A dragon is a projection from the unconscious mind and symbolizes the unconscious mind in a crude primeval sense. The dragon is a cold blooded animal and therefore is connected to base instinct, reflex, habit, without emotions.

I doubt that the people who first spoke of dragons understood the difference between endothermic and exothermic organisms.

Since we have only a rudimentary understanding of emotions, it's rather premature to assume that exotherms don't have any! A goldfish, for example, is less active and has a shorter life if it has no companions.

In tradition, the hero must confront the dragon and defeat it to obtain the treasure . . . .

This is the Greek/Mesopotamian archetype of the dragon, which spread throughout Europe and the Middle East with Roman, Byzantine and Persian culture. The East Asian version is much different: wise and beneficent. To be called a lung (dragon) in Chinese is a high compliment. To kill one would be unutterably shameful.