Hospital chaplains at risk

Not trying to be offensive but the part where terminally-ill patients will be denied proper spiritual support had me wondering why they need it. A macabre situation if there ever was one. Are chaplains there for the terminally ill or for themselves? Are the terminally-ill people that die without a chaplain present worse off? Is it only the terminally-ill patients who are religious that get spiriual support or do these chaplains descend upon any would be corpse like a flock of vultures.

Good move, they have to go. Time for the chaplains to start charging a fee to the prospective dead. Hell they may find it more lucrative.
 
The well being of a patient's mind, heart, and spirit, not to mention the visiting families, are of vital importance.

It would be an act of cruelty to deprive the patients of such.
 
Prince_James said:
The well being of a patient's mind, heart, and spirit, not to mention the visiting families, are of vital importance.

It would be an act of cruelty to deprive the patients of such.
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Then let them hire their own chaplain. Why should hospital's pick up the tab? You could bring in your favorite.
 
Sometimes dying patients ask for priests; it is useful to have one around, especially for the family of the patient. Some of them break down and the nurses and doctors cannot really leave their duties to manage them. They also help with patients who are suicidal or who have come to the hospital after a failed attempt.
 
There has to be a way for chaplains to accomplish their mission without being on the hospital's payroll. This is a definite business opportunity for anyone resourceful enough. Why can't being a chaplain be a competitive venture? People could ensure a holy man or woman from their own faith. Why not dial-a-chaplain?

What's needed is some enterprising men and women of the cloth to join the ranks of entrepreneurs and make it happen. Hand out business cards, advertise, carry a pager, whatever.

No way should hospital's be saddled with this expense.
 
Of course, the hospital should not be saddled with the expense.

I just meant that it helps to have one nearby. If you work in a hospital, you know that when some patients are dying, e.g. children, it is not just the family, but also the staff that are affected. At such times, the burden of death is rather heavy to share and it helps to have a priest say the right words that give comfort to the parents, etc. They do know the right things to say and do and trying to dial-a-priest or whatever is very different from a priest who is always available and hence familiar to the patients and staff.
 
Psychoticepisode:

A hospital is a place of healing. The body is but one thing to heal, and indeed, cannot be healed outside of a larger framework. One canont but heal the body and not assure the heart, mind, and "spirit" are not themselves in working order as well. Similarly, in times of dire need where life and death is on the line, the vital services which these chaplains can offer (last rites, for one) would be incapable of being offered if one had to "bring one in".

If we are attempting to "snip" services, why do we have:

Anaesthia
Food and water
Air conditioning
Comfortable beds
Television and radio
Orderlies
Elevators
Handicap access
Electric lights
Running water
Toilets

Samcdkey:

Why should not the hospital be saddled with the expenses? They are here to heal. How can they do this if they totally disregard a huge part of many patient's lives? Even an Atheist patient can enjoy good counsel from a chaplain-like figure.
 
Does it have to be a person? Could a machine playing a generic faith tape suffice? Is it the chaplain or the words that are important?

I find the practice of harboring on-site chaplains rather ghoulish.
 
"Why should not the hospital be saddled with the expenses? They are here to heal. How can they do this if they totally disregard a huge part of many patient's lives? Even an Atheist patient can enjoy good counsel from a chaplain-like figure."

I'm not aware of Britain, but in India, such services are provided through the religious organisations. Of course, we have a lot of religions to cater to, so that may be it. But in my opinion, this is a religious service, different for different patients and can be provided by the organisations. The hospital may provide space and other amenities, but stipends can be paid by the organisations. The local parish priest for example, could get involved and volunteers (older people in the neighborhood) can be recruited. This is how it is done in India. The retired people volunteer for such service and even visit terminal patients in hospices or at home. This is all managed by the religious organisations.
 
Psychoticepisode:

In the absence of a person, a machine would be better. But a person is capable of connection and active response in a manner which is more condusive to the well being of the patient. Moreover, as studies have shown, it is not only the intellectual, but also the personal content, of interaction with medical practitioners which is important, in regards to bedside manner and such, and if we extend this to chaplains, we can see where a human would be better.

And what is ghoulish about recognizing that many patients are likely to die, as they are but made of frail flesh?
 
Samcdkey:

"I'm not aware of Britain, but in India, such services are provided through the religious organisations. Of course, we have a lot of religions to cater to, so that may be it. But in my opinion, this is a religious service, different for different patients and can be provided by the organisations. The hospital may provide space and other amenities, but stipends can be paid by the organisations. The local parish priest for example, could get involved. "

The problem can also be in specific training, regulation, and the relation of said chaplain to the staff and administration of the hospital, not to mention the sheer logistics. Moreover, as it is providing a service which the hospital needs to supply in order to be a proper place of healing, it is appropriate for them to be the ones who pay the chaplains for their services.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Does it have to be a person? Could a machine playing a generic faith tape suffice? Is it the chaplain or the words that are important?

I find the practice of harboring on-site chaplains rather ghoulish.
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Have you ever worked in a hospital? When people are dying or depressed to the point of being suicidal, they need comforting. Sometimes their family members are available and supportive, many times they are tired after a prolonged illness and too worried or stressed to offer any comfort. People feel they are financial burdens on their family, they feel guilty for being alive, they simply wish to die. Other times, when they are young and terminal and have children, they are angry and frightened and do NOT want to die, but are helpless and hate their families for being healthy. Who can they express their feelings to? Doctors and nurses don't have time; family and friends are helpless and oftentimes cannot take the reality of the person's condition and avoid all references to the illness or death. Very few people know how to deal with death or terminal illness when it happens to a family or friend.

And almost everyone does not know how to deal with it when it happens to yourself.
 
Prince_James said:
Psychoticepisode:
And what is ghoulish about recognizing that many patients are likely to die, as they are but made of frail flesh?
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It's not recognizing....it's the deathwatch itself. I find it a peculiar pastime, morbid in nature. Not to be confused with funeral home employees, gravediggers or other businesses associated with the death of someone. I sense some perverse personal pleasure is the goal of hospital chaplains who lie in wait. Just a feeling.
 
I think in places where they do not have this kind of service, they may not miss it.

But I have seen the benefits and they far outweigh any costs.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
It's not recognizing....it's the deathwatch itself. I find it a peculiar pastime, morbid in nature. Not to be confused with funeral home employees, gravediggers or other businesses associated with the death of someone. I sense some perverse personal pleasure is the goal of hospital chaplains who lie in wait. Just a feeling.
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No that is not true. It takes a lot of fortitude to sit with a person who is going to die. It becomes easier with time, of course, and people find different ways to deal with it. The priest is not there for himself but for the other person, and mostly they begin by trying to engage the person in conversation, asking for any requests or wishes, or by offering to say prayers or hear confessions. Mostly though, just having the priest nearby is a source of immense support for a religious person, since dying is a very lonely affair and harder when it is slow and painful. I have seen anxious frightened patients calm down and die peacefully after a few words with a priest. It is irrelevant to all except the dying man and his family of course, but surely their wishes are paramount at such a time?
 
PsychoticEpisode:

"It's not recognizing....it's the deathwatch itself. I find it a peculiar pastime, morbid in nature. Not to be confused with funeral home employees, gravediggers or other businesses associated with the death of someone. I sense some perverse personal pleasure is the goal of hospital chaplains who lie in wait. Just a feeling. "

Is not a recognition of death and one's duties healthy and helpful? Surely they do not wish for people to die so that they might act...
 
samcdkey said:
No that is not true. It takes a lot of fortitude to sit with a person who is going to die. It becomes easier with time, of course, and people find different ways to deal with it. The priest is not there for himself but for the other person, and mostly they begin by trying to engage the person in conversation, asking for any requests or wishes, or by offering to say prayers or hear confessions. Mostly though, just having the priest nearby is a source of immense support for a religious person, since dying is a very lonely affair and harder when it is slow and painful. I have seen anxious frightened patients calm down and die peacefully after a few words with a priest. It is irrelevant to all except the dying man and his family of course, but surely their wishes are paramount at such a time?
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In the article the bishop is upset that the chaplains won't get their stipend. We are at some boundary here between what you and I are saying. You say it is important to have someone there to soothe the dying and I think it can be done without a person lying in wait. Is this a job? Who is their employer? Should holy work be pro bono or subject to a wage or private donation?
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
In the article the bishop is upset that the chaplains won't get their stipend. We are at some boundary here between what you and I are saying. You say it is important to have someone there to soothe the dying and I think it can be done without a person lying in wait. Is this a job? Who is their employer? Should holy work be pro bono or subject to a wage or private donation?
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In an ideal world, all charity and holy work would be pro bono. In the real world, everyone has to eat and pay bills. Like I said, it is possible to do it through the parish and we have so many retired people who may be willing and able to help (in India they are trained by the priests and most of them are religious anyway, so not much training is required). It also gives older lonely people a means of interaction after retirement. There are many ways to find a solution, but rather peremptory to give up the service over lack of money.
 
Prince_James said:
Is not a recognition of death and one's duties healthy and helpful? Surely they do not wish for people to die so that they might act...
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If their book of judgement contains credits and debits then there is nothing like tipping the balance toward the credits. The guys are human and as such are also subject to the occasional stroking of the ego just like anyone else. For most of us it gives great pleasure to at least think we perform good acts. I don't think anyone can honestly say chaplains do or don't think this way....again this is just a feeling I have, I may be alone. Perhaps an honest chaplain's retort is required here.
 
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