Homophobia in atheists

I think the argument was based on the assumption of rationality and its alleged association with a recognition of universal human rights. While I do not confuse atheism with rationality, I would like to understand the basis for homophobia not based on "myths and superstitions".

The drive to be rational can also drive one to irrational beliefs, much like know-it-all types have trouble believing that they could be wrong, and aren't so good at recognizing their own faults.

As far as non-religious/atheists adopting anti-homo ideals, I can think of two related ideas:

1. Natural Law philosophy
Though it can lead to irrationality through assumption of what is and isn't natural, I can see a materialist adopting homophobic beliefs from a Natural Law idealism.
Usually, Natural Law arguments against homosexuality are used to support a religious objection ie "God created Nature to follow certain laws, and since homosexuality is out of line with those laws, that is why God said it is wrong, and observation of Nature proves this."
I can see, however, an atheist using this kind of reasoning, though, which leads to

2. Darwinism/evolution/biological order/sexual selection
The idea of sexuality as the lynchpin of evolution (no reproduction, no evolution) and of the biological purposes of sex, may lead one to seeing
homosexuality as inherently disordered (to borrow that phrase from the Catholic Church!) from an evolutionary perspective.
That would be a form of Natural Law theory, in that it attempts to discount homosexuality as normal or valid by appealing to biology, anatomy, genetics, and the purpose of sex and reproduction.

To me, however, embracing a Natural Law system would seem to require a quasi-religious dogma of sorts.
 
It's a natural taboo, probably instinctive. One's reason for atheism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's attitudes on other subjects.
 
It's a natural taboo, probably instinctive. One's reason for atheism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's attitudes on other subjects.

True. However, most atheists tend to be so because they find religion and belief in God irrational. Thusly, if one were homophobic, one might expect said atheist to have some type of rational reasoning to support themselves, otherwise, they would fall into the same category as those religionists they claim to be above.

How do you figure that it's a natural taboo? Not saying you're wrong, but I've rarely thought about it from that perspective.
 
"Natural taboo" would imply it has always existed, in most societies however, the notion of homosexuality as a distinct and separate sexual orientation is very recent.

Homosexuality is a recent Western concept (Foucault, 1980) unique among the conceptualization of male-male sexual bonds of other cultures in several ways. Where the western concept of homosexuality assumes a life-long predisposition, other cultures have typically construed male-male sexual bonds as temporary phases, as in the initiation rites of tribes in New Guinea or ancient Crete, or age-based relationships – such as in ancient Greece. An even more profound uniqueness of the Western concept of homosexuality is revealed when it is contrasted with how male-male sexual and romantic bonds were treated in Imperial China where several male emperors were known to have had male harems and favorite male concubines, and also where male prostitution (for male clients) was prevalent up to the end of the Qing Dynasty. The reason why there was no word for homosexuality in Chinese was because it was never seen as a defining or integral part of a person’s identity. Male-male sexual and romantic bonds were construed as relationships between two people as opposed to a psychological essence that defined either person. Moreover, these same-sex bonds were seen as a perfectly acceptable and natural way of life in Imperial China (Hinsch, 1992).

The Assumptions of Homosexuality

Part of the reason why gay culture exists is as a counter-reaction to the oppression and marginalization of homosexuals over the past 150 years in Western culture, but the reason why that marginalization occurred in the first place was because a special category of life-long sexual preferences was created and defined as psychologically aberrant. There are two assumptions that were embedded in that definition and both are problematic. First of all, the concept of homosexuality, and more importantly our conceptualization of sexual orientation, assumes a life-long predisposition. The general sense is that if someone figures out that they are gay today, then they must have been gay when they were born, and they will be gay for the rest of their life. But there is simply not much empirical data that supports the position that sexual preference is a life-long predisposition that never wavers or changes because there are such strong social norms to identify with being straight, gay or bisexual. It is also unclear how many people would choose to have sex with both genders if there were not cultural norms for sexual preferences for one gender. Think about it this way. When someone realizes they are strongly attracted to Asians as sexual partners, they do not have to deal with the anxiety of wondering whether they will only like Asians for the rest of their life because there is no strong social norm for racial preference. But when someone thinks that they are attracted to someone of the same gender, they are suddenly forced to deal with a life-long decision.

Secondly, the concept of homosexuality has come to define an integral part of an individual’s identity in a way that other equally well-defined terms do not. For example, straight people do not think that being straight is an integral part of their identity. In personality psychology, we know that basic traits such as introversion can be measured accurately during childhood and are fairly stable over a life-time, but introverts do not typically report that introversion is an integral part of their identity. No freshmen at college will introduce themselves by saying, “I am an introvert. I realized I was an introvert when I was 13”. There is no Introvert Pride Day, nor is there anything referred to as Introvert Culture. Again, Gay Pride is a counter-reaction to a past injustice, but that injustice was itself created by a socially constructed category that was purposefully meant to be alienating.

http://www.nickyee.com/ponder/social_construction.html
 
"Natural taboo" would imply it has always existed, in most societies however, the notion of homosexuality as a distinct and separate sexual orientation is very recent.

Or exclusive orientation...

Where the western concept of homosexuality assumes a life-long predisposition, other cultures have typically construed male-male sexual bonds as temporary phases, as in the initiation rites of tribes in New Guinea or ancient Crete, or age-based relationships – such as in ancient Greece.

I did some reading on the New Guinea tribal practices. Some of them go beyond sexualized initiation rites from what I remember. It depends on the islands and tribes involved.
 
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It's extremely difficult to apply reason to the subject of what is good for society. Why is tolerance more reasonable than intolerance?

S.A.M. said:
"Natural taboo" would imply it has always existed, in most societies however, the notion of homosexuality as a distinct and separate sexual orientation is very recent.
One does not contradict the other. Being able to select your own choice of profession or mate is also a recent innovation in society.
 
Not really, the idea of romantic love has been around forever. Marriage is a separate issue.
 
That's what I mean. Just like romantic love always existed and did not correspond to marriage, homosexuality always existed and did not correspond to any particular public status.
 
Secondly, the concept of homosexuality has come to define an integral part of an individual’s identity in a way that other equally well-defined terms do not. For example, straight people do not think that being straight is an integral part of their identity. In personality psychology, we know that basic traits such as introversion can be measured accurately during childhood and are fairly stable over a life-time, but introverts do not typically report that introversion is an integral part of their identity. No freshmen at college will introduce themselves by saying, “I am an introvert. I realized I was an introvert when I was 13”. There is no Introvert Pride Day, nor is there anything referred to as Introvert Culture. Again, Gay Pride is a counter-reaction to a past injustice, but that injustice was itself created by a socially constructed category that was purposefully meant to be alienating.

Exactly what I have said before! Which is why I try my best to refrain from using the word "gay" when referring to homosexuality. It tends to perpetuate a superficial identity.
 
Aren't most identities superficial?

Esattamente!
Which is why they should generally be avoided! No reason to base one's entire being on a single trait, or build a silly culture out of it. A culture caricature! :eek:

I really suck, I know.
 
Oh, Battista, be fun.

Gay pride parades are a good time. We're becoming a more tolerant culture, and it's a day for ANYONE, and I do mean ANYONE, to wear short-shorts.
 
Oh, Battista, be fun.

Gay pride parades are a good time. We're becoming a more tolerant culture, and it's a day for ANYONE, and I do mean ANYONE, to wear short-shorts.

They don't have such parades where I live.
I don't really care for parades in the first place! They kind of bore me...:eek:

Battista is NOT a fun person. Which is why he has no friends in real life.

I might consider wearing the short-shorts, though. Sounds kind of fun.
 
They don't have such parades where I live.
I don't really care for parades in the first place! They kind of bore me...:eek:

Battista is NOT a fun person. Which is why he has no friends in real life.

I might consider wearing the short-shorts, though. Sounds kind of fun.

I think you're fun. :p Then again, my idea of "fun" includes buying books entitled Hubert the Pudge.
 
It's about a pudge that runs away from the sadistic pudge mill where pudges are turned into television dinners and greasy pudge chops! He becomes a GIANT pudge who turns Farmer Jake to vegetarianism. :D Farmer Jake marries the beautiful physical fitness trainer named Heidi and they start a tofu hotdog factory. I thought my niece would like it.

As for short shorts, I haven't worn those since my cocaine chic thin days. And we're all better off for it. I was mildly offended no one purchased them at my yard sale. Oh, to be 100 lbs again and thinking it was attractive...
 
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