Homeopathy and potential energy

Most, if not all, of the physical energy (or KE as you have taken to calling it) applied by a mortal and pestle with simply lose itself in the air as thermal energy.
 
Most, if not all, of the physical energy (or KE as you have taken to calling it) applied by a mortal and pestle with simply lose itself in the air as thermal energy.
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Hi Redrover,

Thanks for information. But how can we calculate/propose 'Most, if not all' as you mentioned?
 
Hello Mr.Hans,

My problem is that I do not deny anything which is existing since long. I tries to understnd & take all the 'Goods' in anything, may be a spritual or a science.

I know your profound respect for age, but surely we can agree that, as new knowledge is found, some old knowledge has to be discarded?

I feel that all sprituals are based on the basic science & will become our science when we will translate them in our language or will understand their language. This is just a simple problem of translation.

Maybe, but in some instances, the translation will be "nonexistent". For example, it was believed for thousands of years that Earth was flat and sat in the center of the universe. We now know that this idea was simply mistaken.

It also looks to me that all or most of scientific aspects are initially initiated due to presence of these sprituals which we have translated & expanded in our language. Just take a simple example called 'ONENESS' means everything is created from ' ONE BASIC HIM & HER ' ,which I think is more or less is cleared in my other topic ,' The science of basic elements' . Sprituals are the basis/clues of our science but the problem may be that, we may be translating their language into our language insted of understanding their language directly, so taking lot of time to understand , though not be fully.

That is not translating, it is interpreting.

The best thing to understand them is to initiate some entities with 'Microscopic Eyes' the eyes of our cells being the 'Divya Drishti' with which the ancient basic science was probably formed. They should be capable to see every atomic or sub-atomic happening in the universe.

Ehr, how are you going to do that?

My second problem is that, I don't believe or accept a thing unless it is understood by me in 'Logic' or in 'Science'.

I don't consider that a problem :) .

I ,personally observed & fully convinced ' that Homeopathic Remedies do work' but how is just now a unclear aspect which I am only trying to understand.

Ahh, but now you contradict your statement above. You are doing the opposite of the science and logic approach: You have convinced yourself that something (homeopathy) exists, and now you are looking for some science that may verify it. And THAT is a problem, because it leads you to interpret things in ways that can confirm your beliefs.

So please try to discuss the mentioned possibilities in this topic & contribute for good cause. It you have any aspect which is allready disapproved, just give me the referances.

But I already did. I explained how energy could be exchanged. I already gave you this link in another thread. You will find detailed info there.

Best Wishes!! Same to you!
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Hans
 
Hello MRC,

but surely we can agree that, as new knowledge is found, some old knowledge has to be discarded?

Yes like Latin against English etc. But I told you that this can be a destructing phase of nature & its modalities may be to bring those new/s which are suitable for this purpose.

Maybe, but in some instances, the translation will be "nonexistent". For example, it was believed for thousands of years that Earth was flat and sat in the center of the universe. We now know that this idea was simply mistaken.

Who knows it may change again. Everything is now changing. Today we say that 'SUN' rises from the east is a 'Universal Truth' but tomorrow we may say, it is stupid, Sun never rises it is mostly stable. Alike, earth appeared to look flat in common sense therefoe called as 'Flat' which may not be a science now but was/is a true logic.

That is not translating, it is interpreting.

May be. I told you my engilish is bit weak.

Ehr, how are you going to do that?

I am not too young, may take one full or may be several generations depending upon the power of concentration & meditation.

I don't consider that a problem

Not for you but is for me. Eg; next para.

Ahh, but now you contradict your statement above. You are doing the opposite of the science and logic approach: You have convinced yourself that something (homeopathy) exists, and now you are looking for some science that may verify it. And THAT is a problem, because it leads you to interpret things in ways that can confirm your beliefs.
I give you my full quote of my both problems. Just read again;
My problem is that I do not deny anything which is existing since long. I tries to understnd & take all the 'Goods' in anything, may be a spritual or a science. My second problem is that, I don't believe or accept a thing unless it is understood by me in 'Logic' or in 'Science'.
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This is 'my trying to understand' stage . A thesis can be made from a meaningfull hypothesis.

But I already did. I explained how energy could be exchanged. I already gave you this link in another thread. You will find detailed info there.

Link did't help a bit otherwise you could had awnsered. ;)

Best Wishes!! Same to you!

Don't you add??
:D

I hope we are not boring/irritating others.
 
I give you my full quote of my both problems. Just read again;


quote:
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My problem is that I do not deny anything which is existing since long. I tries to understnd & take all the 'Goods' in anything, may be a spritual or a science. My second problem is that, I don't believe or accept a thing unless it is understood by me in 'Logic' or in 'Science'.

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This is 'my trying to understand' stage . A thesis can be made from a meaningfull hypothesis.

But I already did. I explained how energy could be exchanged. I already gave you this link in another thread. You will find detailed info there.

Link did't help a bit otherwise you could had awnsered.
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The link was because you asked for references. After all, you shouldn't just take my word for these things.

The way I see you problem is: Your two approaches are contradictory. You can't both accept old beliefs and make a scinetific approach. The main axiom of science is that NOTHING is held true unless verified. If you want to use a scientific approach, you must be prepared to sort old thruths into three categories:

1) Verified. Evidence supports old knowledge.

2) Invalid. Evidence contradicts old knowledge.

3) Unknown. Evidence neither supports nor contradicts.

Note that as new evidence becomes available, a thesis may change from any category, to any other. Science is NEVER final.

Hans
 
The way I see you problem is: Your two approaches are contradictory. You can't both accept old beliefs and make a scinetific approach. The main axiom of science is that NOTHING is held true unless verified. If you want to use a scientific approach, you must be prepared to sort old thruths into three categories:
1) Verified. Evidence supports old knowledge.

2) Invalid. Evidence contradicts old knowledge.

3) Unknown. Evidence neither supports nor contradicts.

Note that as new evidence becomes available, a thesis may change from any category, to any other. Science is NEVER final.
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Mr.Hans,

Thanks. I may add one more type;

4. Valid in Experiance: Evidence not yet confirmed.

Actually, I am satified in experiace & somewhat in logic also. Some old spritual examples also matches with its principles.

Eg; Holy dips in rivers, Sea etc. which is said to remove old sins. Bio-chemicals from Earth sbstances mix in water, gets triturated or succussed , diluted & become like potentised mixed remedy. When we take bath in it or drink this so called holy water, create homeopathic type effects & balances excess biochemicals present in body.( I consider excess accumulated biochemicals & toxins as other name of 'Sins').

But, I want to be satisfied in current science also, for the sake of my curiocity & satisfy others.
By the way, I have noted that much about PE is neither mentioned in books nor on internet. Is it measurable in this context. Pls re-think about PE stored in remedies. You know that a triturated salt in fine powder form is more & instantly effective than in its crystal or solid form.
 
Well, this is where we differ. For me, old experience = anecdotical evidence.

Which means they fall under #3.

Hans
 
Differance!! May be due to self /personal experiances.

Coming to the point, if finer triturated/diluted particles of any substance are more effective than its raw form? Quick dilution due to smaller particle is not to be taken in to account.
 
Finer salt is not more effective, it just dissolves faster, for obvious reasons.

About "holy dips": What you are doing is attempting to explain one speculative thing with another speculative thing. But you touch a soft spot for homeopathy: If water indeed DOES store a memory of the substances it has been in touch with, then how about tab water? Tab water has been in touch with countless substances, often under rather vigerous conditions (have you ever seen a water-cleaning plant at work?). So tab water must be a powerful homeopathic drug. How come we don't get syptoms from the "proving" every time we drink it?

Hans
 
Everything can effect. We do feel refresh & eneragetic after bath & satisfied after drinking it. If we observe we can note differant symptoms as differant time. We do find traces of zinc in tap water. It depend upon the source of water which is coming to you tap. We find several types of person here having differant personalities effected due to their water & do find lot of similarities among people living is same area. But still tap water is bit stagnant & mixed with cleanising materials.

Some rivers are called holy because they may contain more useful minerals(silica also):D in potentized form. Allthough this is a 'Belief' which may not be understood by all, still believed by mass public. Just try sea bath or some other watersource away from home & note the differances. Sometimes if one has waterly running nose just dissolve a pinch of salt in water, slightly shake it and apply at any soft skin any where on body. You may found your running nose is stopped with in few minutes.
 
Originally posted by Kumar
Everything can effect. We do feel refresh & eneragetic after bath & satisfied after drinking it. If we observe we can note differant symptoms as differant time. We do find traces of zinc in tap water. It depend upon the source of water which is coming to you tap. We find several types of person here having differant personalities effected due to their water & do find lot of similarities among people living is same area. But still tap water is bit stagnant & mixed with cleanising materials.

Some rivers are called holy because they may contain more useful minerals(silica also):D in potentized form. Allthough this is a 'Belief' which may not be understood by all, still believed by mass public. Just try sea bath or some other watersource away from home & note the differances. Sometimes if one has waterly running nose just dissolve a pinch of salt in water, slightly shake it and apply at any soft skin any where on body. You may found your running nose is stopped with in few minutes.
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And you're basing this on fact how? Personally, I think you've been dunking yourself in polluted rivers way too much. Your logic is distructive to how you view science and in the end it will bite you on the ass when you finally realized you've wasted your time. I purpose that you learn of WHY things happen with what has be PROVEN (or at least sound enough to be well accepted theory) before you attemp to think you really understand what is going on in the world. There is a huge difference between faith (what you have shown to posses) and science (what REALLY goes on).
 
There is a huge difference between faith (what you have shown to posses) and science (what REALLY goes on).
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This is one's own understanding.

But we are going out of the point. My question is that wheteher PE can be stored in the mixture in any way or not, partly or equally to the KE applied to it.
 
Originally posted by Kumar
This is one's own understanding.

But we are going out of the point. My question is that wheteher PE can be stored in the mixture in any way or not, partly or equally to the KE applied to it.
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And the answer was given. No. Not unless a chemical reaction is taking place. If there was another effect going on, it would have been discovered a long time ago. Don't take chemistry and physics for granted. A lot of work has been going into experimentation and theory to discover and predict behavior. Just because you say something works due to your own ideas doesn't mean it's right. If homoepathy worked, we'd all be using it..
 
Don't take chemistry and physics for granted. A lot of work has been going into experimentation and theory to discover and predict behavior.
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I am asking because not taking chemistry and physics for granted. We may tomorow can find something otherwise. About chemical reaction, if we mix 1+99 parts of sodium cloride+alcohol(or lactose) and then succuss(shake vigorously) or triturate it, then any chemical reaction is possible or not. We may not be using but other millions of people are using.

Thanks & regards.
 
Everytime you make contact with anything, an electron transfer is inevitable. Sometimes, [/b]constant dynamic contact (like rubbing) causes dislocation of enough electrons to take major effect: Rubbing some type of material against your dry hair causes electrons to change place[/b]
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I got this awnser to my question in another thread. When we rub(say, triturate or succuss) causes dislocation of enough electron(change in orbits) will produce energy(eg; rubbing a balloon make it to stick on wall). Can this created energy be stored as PE in remedies mixture or how can we relate this type of effect with my question?
 
Can I add to this discussion by saying that the contention that there is no mechanism for testing or measuring the remedy or variables in Homeopathy is well founded. This I think all parties can agree on.

However there is a way of measuring it's effects and this is with trial and error using the human body. Most unreliable for sure.

But the only known way of testing and measuring homeophathic medicines.

I don't think it is desputed that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that in some these medicines work and appear to work quite well.

The same may apply to esoteric astrology and clairvoyence etc.

I think it may be also said in all fairness that to take a position of "If we can't test it it don't exist" is also flawed but by the same token if one wants the object to be given credibility in science then one must be able to follow the rules of scientific proof.

So the to and fro is really not a question of vailidity of homeopathic medicines it is only a question of what method of proving is needed to gain acceptance.


And as at this time there is no external way of proving homeopathic medicines other than the trial and error of usng a human body. This in no way invalidates the medicines but makes it extremely hard to prove as to the rules of science.

"When you have found a way of proving the chemical nature of the human soul" that's when we can sit down and discuss homeopathic medicines.

To try and prove the spirit in science is a huge undertaking and well...... best of luck.

I might add in defence of homeopathy that at the moment our defense against AIDS is more or less the same in that we just throw everything we have at it and hope that somewhere somehow it works and when it does we don't know why either.

The same could be said for chemo therapy for cancer sufferers in that some people recover and some don't and either way we don't know why. Also medications for deppression and Psychotivc conditions are at the best adhoc.

This prompts the question why use say chemo instead of homeopathy? AS at this time the scientific proof is missing for both one might suggest.
 
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I might add in defence of homeopathy that at the moment our defense against AIDS is more or less the same in that we just throw everything we have at it and hope that somewhere somehow it works and when it does we don't know why either.

The same could be said for chemo therapy for cancer sufferers in that some people recover and some don't and either way we don't know why. Also medications for deppression and Psychotivc conditions are at the best adhoc.

This prompts the question why use say chemo instead of homeopathy? AS at this time the scientific proof is missing for both one might suggest.
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Quantum Quack,

Thanks for your most justified & sober reply. Whenever, I find any clue about the working mechnism I just throw everything I have at it and hope that somewhere somehow it works. We don't know when we can get some justified solution to this issue. The current status of homeopathic remedies seems to be as under;

' Homeopathic remedies are observed & experianced as effective by homeopathic community, but the scientific reasoning of its working could not be yet ascertained by the current science community with their available theories & technologies. '
 
as with most of the esoteric so called pseudo sciences they rely on the long term experiences and thus justifying their use.

Many years ago a guy stumbled upon pennicillan (Spellings) and he had absolutely no idea why it worked but trials established it's benefits and science went to town to prove why it works.

I am sure if one could clinically prove any of the homeopathic medicines in a similar way they too would become the interest of science....unfortunately their consistancy does not allow for this...

Maybe one day hey
 
Mr. geodesic,
As to the electrons jumping up an orbital, your best bet would be silicon, which can manage this with the absorbtion of a photon above the correct energy. However, I don't know whether you could do this just by shaking - I would guess that if you shook it hard enough, then enough thermal energy would be transferred to the atom that the electron might jump up an orbital, but you'd be better off asking someone who knows more about this than me. Anyway, IF the electron managed to jump up an orbital, it could concievably become seperated from the atom, but I don't really see what effect this would have.
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You have previously posted the above quote. Now there can be three substances in homeopathic remedies.

1. Salt

2. lactose/alcohol/water

3. Contaminations say silica.

How can you relate these to 'Static Electricity' on succussion & trituration & its storage in the homeopathic remedies? This is an important question so all can guide accordigly by unbiased thinking.
 
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