Hitler on the Origins of Religion:

Carcano

Valued Senior Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gETkE0CT2EM&skipcontrinter=1


"Originally, religion was merely a prop for human communities. It was a means, not an end in itself. It's only gradually that it became transformed in this direction, with the object of maintaining the rule of the priests, who can live only to the detriment of society collectively.

The instructions of a hygienic nature that most religions gave, contributed to the foundation of organized communities. The precepts ordering people to wash, to avoid certain drinks, to fast at appointed dates, to take exercise, to rise with the sun, to climb to the top of the minaret — all these were obligations invented by intelligent people. The exhortation to fight courageously is also self-explanatory. Observe, by the way, that, as a corollary, the Muslim was promised a paradise peopled with sensual girls, where wine flowed in streams — a real earthly paradise. The Christians, on the other hand, declare themselves satisfied if after their death they are allowed to sing hallelujahs! All these elements contributed to form human communities. It is to these private customs that Folks owe their present characters.

Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline.

But one must continue to pay attention to another aspect of the problem. It's possible to satisfy the needs of the inner life by an intimate communion with nature, or by knowledge of the past. Only a minority, however, at the present stage of the mind's development, can feel the respect inspired by the unknown, and thus satisfy the metaphysical needs of the soul. The average human being has the same needs, but can satisfy them only by elementary means. That's particularly true of women, as also of peasants who impotently watch the destruction of their crops. The person whose life tends to simplification is thirsty for belief, and he dimly clings to it with all his strength.

Nobody has the right to deprive simple people of their childish certainties until they've acquired others that are more reasonable. Indeed, it's most important that the higher belief should be well established in them before the lower belief has been removed. We must finally achieve this. But it would serve no purpose to replace an old belief by a new one that would merely fill the place left vacant by its predecessor.

It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to reestablish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology had ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund. At that period the ancient world was divided between the systems of philosophy and the worship of idols. It's not desirable that the whole of humanity should be stultified — and the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.

A Movement like ours mustn't let itself be drawn into metaphysical digressions. It must stick to the spirit of exact science. It's not the Party's function to be a counterfeit for religion.

If, in the course of a thousand or two thousand years, science arrives at the necessity of renewing its points of view, that will not mean that science is a liar. Science cannot lie, for it's always striving, according to the momentary state of knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a mistake, it does so in good faith. It's Christianity that's the liar. It's in perpetual conflict with itself.

One may ask whether the disappearance of Christianity would entail the disappearance of belief in God. That's not to be desired. The notion of divinity gives most men the opportunity to concretize the feeling they have of supernatural realities. Why should we destroy this wonderful power they have of incarnating the feeling for the divine that is within them?

The man who lives in communion with nature necessarily finds himself in opposition to the Churches. And that's why they're heading for ruin — for science is bound to win.

I especially wouldn't want our Movement to acquire a religious character and institute a form of worship. It would be appalling for me, and I would wish I'd never lived, if I were to end up in the skin of a Buddha!" -Adolf Hitler.
 
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The man who lives in communion with nature necessarily finds himself in opposition to the Churches.

One can find a balance between the two as many scientists do today. Most scientists, I don't know the statistics so I can't back it up, are also going to church/synagogue/temple as they strive to understand the science of things. I do know that Einstien and Feynman were Jewish just to give you two examples.


I especially wouldn't want our Movement to acquire a religious character and institute a form of worship. It would be appalling for me, and I would wish I'd never lived, if I were to end up in the skin of a Buddha.

Buddha was just a man, wanted others to find themselves by looking inwards and said that over and over. If Hitler didn't like Buddha it was because he rersented Buddha because of him not wanting to be followed but only enjoyed teaching. Hitler wanted only his own ideas and thoughts to be followed not for others to form their own way of thinking for themselves.
 
I guess its official then - Hitler was an atheist

Martin Bormann's Hitler's Table Talk is the supposed transcripts or accounts of Hitler's private conversations. Obviously they conflict with Hitler's own public speeches and writings. They at least reflect Bormann's views, who considered National Socialism incompatible with Christianity.

Some sources contend that Hitler held Bormann in such high regard that he did indeed privately endorse the latter's outlook. But other sources question the accuracy or legitimacy of Bormann's retelling of these dinner discussions, or that of the translators:

"The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on!"

While yet another take is that:

"Hitler considered himself religious, but had only contempt for organized religion and the teachings of the church about Jesus. Hitler had his own private view of Jesus, that of an economic revolutionary and Jew hater. So in some twisted sense Hitler thought he was acting in the tradition of Jesus."

Perhaps an old Straight Dope article best sums-up the ambiguity of the mess:

[Was Hitler a Christian?] The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated....

Extractions, Doug Krueger: "So many Germans were religious believers that Hitler, if not religious himself, at least had to pretend to be a believer in order to gain support. [...] If the [Christian] message won converts, it would seem that most Nazis were probably [Christians] too. After all, would appeal to divine mandate win more theists or atheists to the cause? [...] Even if Hitler was not a [Christian], he could still have been a theist. Or a deist [...] So here's what evidence we have. There is a certain worldview, Nazism. Its leader, Hitler, professes on many occasions to be religious, and he often states that he's doing the will of god. The majority of his followers are openly religious. There is no evidence anywhere that this leader ever professed to anyone that he is an atheist. He and his followers actively campaign against atheism, even to the point of physical force, and this leader allies himself with religious organizations and churches. This is the evidence. So where does atheism fit in?"
 
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@Carcano

I won't reply to Hitler, since he's unworthy of it. I'd be interested to hear your own thoughts.
 
Although Hitler evolved to hate the Roman Catholic Church, he did admire several of its facets. He admired the success of Pope Pius X in purging Modernist sentiment within the church in 1905. Hitler loved church pomp and ceremony, and demanded that Speer incorporate such spectacle into the huge NSDAP stadium rallies. Hitler admired the structure of the church. He viewed the SS as a Nazi equivalent of the Jesuit order. The Hitler Youth (Jugend) was instituted as a Nazi response to wrest away the control of parochial schools. Borrowing a page from religion, Hitler considered himself the Germanic Savior.

Domestically, Hitler greatly resented church backlash which forced him to abort the euthanasia (T4) program which murdered tens of thousands of handicapped/mentally ill German citizens. With the invasion of Poland, priests were considered enemy intellectuals and many were either murdered outright or incarcerated in prisons/detention camps.
 
Although Hitler evolved to hate the Roman Catholic Church, he did admire several of its facets

He was also funded by the Catholic Church to make his military hardware and pay his troops. It wasn't until recently that the Pope finally stated that the Catholic Church recognized the Holocaust actually happened.
 
@Carcano

I won't reply to Hitler, since he's unworthy of it. I'd be interested to hear your own thoughts.
Do you think historians should avoid studying the criminals of history...simply because they are disagreeable characters?

My own view on religion is that it originated as a way of avoiding ethics...in other words, as a form of cowardice.

Its much easier to worship an idol than to live without sin...and much easier to attribute EVIL to the influence of demons and devils than to your own choices.

Worship is, above all, easier than meditation...which is the real core of authentic spirituality.
 
Martin Bormann's Hitler's Table Talk is the supposed transcripts or accounts of Hitler's private conversations. Obviously they conflict with Hitler's own public speeches and writings. They at least reflect Bormann's views, who considered National Socialism incompatible with Christianity.

Some sources contend that Hitler held Bormann in such high regard that he did indeed privately endorse the latter's outlook. But other sources question the accuracy or legitimacy of Bormann's retelling of these dinner discussions, or that of the translators:
The talks were recorded in shorthand by three people...Heinrich Heim, Henry Picker, and Martin Bormann.

The accuracy of the later translations are controversial yes.
 
Do you think historians should avoid studying the criminals of history...simply because they are disagreeable characters?
I think each person follows their own beat. Some historians might spend their whole career just studying psychopaths.
My own view on religion is that it originated as a way of avoiding ethics...in other words, as a form of cowardice.
How did you come across the idea of connecting Hitler with religion?

Its much easier to worship an idol than to live without sin...and much easier to attribute EVIL to the influence of demons and devils than to your own choices.
OK

Worship is, above all, easier than meditation...which is the real core of authentic spirituality.
I would have to leave that with you since I don't don't have a sense of spirituality although I've worked at meditation as a kind of mental exercise and as a matter of health. I find it daunting, that it can induce dream-like states which seem more vivid than the vague dreams of normal sleep.
 
He was also funded by the Catholic Church to make his military hardware and pay his troops.
This sounds like an urban myth. A spot check didn't pull up anything credible to support it.

It wasn't until recently that the Pope finally stated that the Catholic Church recognized the Holocaust actually happened.
The pope was dying - and told his successor "this can't go on". You can read the actual encyclical of Pius XII (1939) and it contains stuff like this:

The blood of countless human beings, even noncombatants, raises a piteous dirge over a nation such as Our dear Poland, which, for its fidelity to the Church, for its services in the defense of Christian civilization, written in indelible characters in the annals of history, has a right to the generous and brotherly sympathy of the whole world, while it awaits, relying on the powerful intercession of Mary, Help of Christians, the hour of a resurrection in harmony with the principles of justice and true peace.

It's not clear when the rest of the world figured out that the Holocaust was underway. As far as everyone knew, the Jews were being deported. The shock came when the Allies went into the camps and found the corpses and and the living dead as well. Considering the fact that around 2400 Catholic clerics were murdered in Poland alone, it's hard to imagine how any Church employees were even present to investigate it - if they dared to.
 
I guess its official then - Hitler was an atheist

I think he intended to exploit Christian religious fervor to the point of nationalism, with the Jews as the scapegoat. I would imagine the predominant religion was Lutheran.

The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan "believers in God," and 1.5 percent unbelievers​

The fact that he was successful (launching anti-Semitism under a Christian banner) is an indictment against the religious people who supported him.
 
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