Higher intelligence- serious possibility!

[spidergoat]

It is not beyond conception that life on Earth was seeded by life forms outside of Earth. Humanity itself was not seeded, since it clearly shows evidence of having evolved here. However, it just delays the explanation as to how that higher life form came about, which was most likely an evolutionary process. An evolved life form is not a God, however powerful. Gods have supernatural qualities by definition, and are not just highly technological beings (aliens).

 

[Norsefire]

It is not beyond conception that life on Earth was seeded by life forms outside of Earth. Humanity itself was not seeded, since it clearly shows evidence of having evolved here.

No one is denying evolution. Of course humans evolved; the question is was our evolution mere happenstance, or was it guided?

However, it just delays the explanation as to how that higher life form came about, which was most likely an evolutionary process.

Most likely

An evolved life form is not a God, however powerful. Gods have supernatural qualities by definition, and are not just highly technological beings (aliens).

In your definition, yes. However nonetheless, to ancient man, technological sophistication could be taken as supernatural ability

Perhaps extraterrestrials visited earth in the days of antiquity, and man simply tried to express this as best he could; through scripture and primitive art

 

[spidergoat]

What would a guided evolution be meant to explain? There is nothing about our evolution that requires it. There is nothing to indicate that it couldn't have come about due to local conditions. It seems someone just wants to feel that they are part of something planned. It's more extraordinary that it wasn't planned.

 

[Norsefire]

What would a guided evolution be meant to explain? There is nothing about our evolution that requires it. There is nothing to indicate that it couldn't have come about due to local conditions. It seems someone just wants to feel that they are part of something planned. It's more extraordinary that it wasn't planned.

Absolutely.


However, realize that compared to the other animals of this planet, mankind is leaps and bounds ahead and so more complex and so much more intelligent and able.

It isn't that it couldn't have happened naturally, but it also could've been guided and that is not an unreasonable idea; there is circumstancial evidence to suggest that extraterrestrials visited earth. It isn't really concrete evidence, since it is open to interpretation, however.

 

[Oli]

there is circumstancial evidence to suggest that extraterrestrials visited earth.

Only if you believe the woo woo authors.
Interpretation is one thing, ignoring the facts and/ or making your own up is another.

 

[Norsefire]

Only if you believe the woo woo authors.
Interpretation is one thing, ignoring the facts and/ or making your own up is another.

And it is interpretation.

I am rather confident that intelligent life superior to human intelligence exists. Therefore, god is a rational idea.

 

[cosmictraveler]

If there were a "higher" life form then why would "it" want to create anything at all? Since it is already top o' the heap then why would it put something in existance that may challange its own self?

 

[Oli]

No, it's deliberate manufacture/ falsification of data to support crackpot theories and sell books to the gullible.

 

[spidergoat]

Absolutely.


However, realize that compared to the other animals of this planet, mankind is leaps and bounds ahead and so more complex and so much more intelligent and able.

It isn't that it couldn't have happened naturally, but it also could've been guided and that is not an unreasonable idea; there is circumstancial evidence to suggest that extraterrestrials visited earth. It isn't really concrete evidence, since it is open to interpretation, however.

I think it's called Directed Panspermia, and it's a valid scientific theory. However, we can look at the history of homonid creatures, and see the gradual development. First the upright posture, then gradually increasing brain size, then evidence of fire use (in caves), then tools, then civilization. This happened over tens of millions of years. The first humans were not so different from the rest of the great apes. In fact, the great apes are very smart, they can learn to use human sign language, tools, I have even seen an orangutan that learned to wash (and wear) it's own clothes, and does so voluntarily, paddling a human boat over to the dock it uses as a laundry.

 

[shaman_]

The possibility that there are beings with superior intelligence to humans is definitely serious, in my opinion, and I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

The question is not whether it is ridiculous, but whether it is factual.

Now, I've mentioned this before: a "deity", a being with superior intelligence to humans and significant impact on the physical world, is not, in itself, a ridiculous concept. .

Plenty of very rational sounding concepts have been proven wrong.

Based on these simple observations, we can logically take it one further and suppose that even higher intelligence, whatever "higher" means, may exist; and that it may have even more significant influence than humans.

Sure it may exist. Lots of things may exist.

This is, of course, pure speculation and, at least to me, is a very serious prospect.

Thetans are a very serious prospect to scientologists. They probably think that they don’t sound ridiculous. There is as much evidence for them as there is for the intelligence you are suggesting.

Taking the simple possibility of higher intelligence, it is not irrational; however, of course, it is still just speculation.

Sure, but you seem to be trying to add weight to the argument (while acknowledging we have no evidence) by assessing the possibility as a ‘very serious’ one that is ‘not ridiculous’. There are plenty of things we can imagine which could be described in such a way.

 

[Norsefire]

The point is that you do not speculate beyond what you can logically conclude; we can conclude the possibility of higher intelligence because we observe intelligence on earth. We cannot, however, make any further conclusions as there is not enough data.


Shaman, do you believe that there is other life in the universe? Is that such a daunting prospect?

 

[shaman_]

The point is that you do not speculate beyond what you can logically conclude; we can conclude the possibility of higher intelligence because we observe intelligence on earth. We cannot, however, make any further conclusions as there is not enough data.

No argument here.

I wanted to make the point that just thinking about whether something sounds reasonable is not going to substitute for evidence.

Shaman, do you believe that there is other life in the universe? Is that such a daunting prospect?

It is possible.

I think you are clouding the discussion by using the term ‘deity’ and starting it in a religious forum.

By your definition, if we met an alternate earth, except that it was a few decades more advanced than us, we would call that life a deity.

 

[theobserver]

Suppose if there is higher intelligence(I don't mean that 10 foot tall dude with white beard), can humans ever be capable of comprehending that higher intelligence? Never.

Instead we would remain to dwell in our extended comfort zone of ignorance and arrogance for rest of our lives and keep rejecting the higher intelligence as something stupid since it doesn't conform to our primitive way of thinking.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

how would you define a deity?
And who said that they didn't still have to abide by natural laws?

This is where 'a deity' might be different from 'The Deity'. The philosopher Nick Bostrom (see Wiki on simulated reality) has argued that there is a high probability that we all live in a computer simulated world. "A deity" would be subject to that world (albeit a powerful player), whereas "The Deity" would be the intelligence (computer programmer) that set up the whole thing.

I don't subscibe to Nick Bostrom's idea, however, it is a good metaphor for 'God', except that we are not separate from this intelligence (the programmer), we are expressions of it. How do we know? Only because through meditation etc., we can get to know this Intelligence (which is also our mind) more deeply. We can start to see evidence for it everywhere.

The only thing I am defending here is that higher intelligence is a logical possibility, and thus I believe that the idea that humanity was influenced or seeded by higher life is also logical.

I salute your open-minded scepticism Norsefire. What I hear you saying you object to in religion are the unfounded attributions of properties or intentions to such 'higher intelligences' aka God/gods as might exist. I agree - the only way is to find out for ourselves.

 

[kerux]

Intelligence existing somewhere beyond this pluriverses or universe

The possibility that there are beings with superior intelligence to humans is definitely serious, in my opinion, and I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

Rael or the founder of another Alien's Religion wrote in a book, "Intelligent Design" that he had an encounter with other beings or aliens so to speak. Well, satanic forces try to deceive people by mere optical even tangible illusions. Remember, inexplicable deeds of mere humans might be an angelic deeds (but fallen angels only).

We get mixed up when religion makes irrational assertions and accepts them as truth, though..

Well, religion is a way also used by satan to deceive people or to confuse them. That's why St. James, brother in flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ in the new Testament of the Bible clearly stated it - Pure and undefiled religion (James 1:27) because in their times there were unpure and defiled religions already existing.

Now, I've mentioned this before: a "deity", a being with superior intelligence to humans and significant impact on the physical world, is not, in itself, a ridiculous concept. We humans observe:

a) intelligence exists
b) intelligence is influential

Based on these simple observations, we can logically take it one further and suppose that even higher intelligence, whatever "higher" means, may exist; and that it may have even more significant influence than humans.

When we say SUPERIOR, it follows there is inferior and when we are superior to animals, because they cannot make a "mirror" and clothings of their own, we are nonetheless inferior to the Creator of the universe (pluriverses). Why? BECAUSE we are dependent on existing material: we make clothes, cook food, drink water etc because of their availability and we even breath because of the availability of oxygen. If only one can invent a material nonexisting in this phenomena called Universe...!

This is, of course, pure speculation, but it has a basis and, at least to me, is a very serious prospect.

I am not speculation norse, because I see a pattern. Animals started a little, then they brow and mature and die. Also we the human beings, started through fertility and at birth and crawl and walk upright and talked sensible utterance and mature and marry (except those solitary ones) and again do the human cycle and plan all things for the good. Likewise, the bad always looks for their own good!

The problem is, there are no observations to give us any insight as to the nature of said intelligence, the desires, the abilities, etc

These things stem from imagination and culture and false logic. A good evidence against any religion is that in different parts of the world, there are different religions (which means religion is not based on observation)

Taking the simple possibility of higher intelligence, it is not irrational; however, of course, it is still just speculation..

When we say SECRET, it really should be secret! Why should you want to see the invisible. Remember, human beings are intelligent beings in comparison to the lower animals. But they observe order. Sea creatures live by a decree and human beings acknowledge that the king of the sea is the shark;likewise the king of the jungle is the lion. Now, do they know that they are kings? Or those creatures who are frightened by their existence are just following a dictate planted in their emotions? Do they have freewill? Can they think if lions will to swim in the sea or the shark would escape from the sea for just 5 minutes?

However, taking this concept and applying baseless details and then accepting it as truth, is not rational. This is religion.

Well, free thinkers always think freely. Rational thinking doesn't mean unbiased thinking. If you see and you do experience the truth which is abstract to any other people, then why not cleave to it? Anyway, why should you spend your life freely? You are still following some pattern of lifestyle just like thesea creatures and the insects like ants. It's true, ants don't have any religion but they obeyed someone which I call God of the Bible, YHWH.

 

[Oli]

Rael or the founder of another Alien's Religion wrote in a book, "Intelligent Design" that he had an encounter with other beings or aliens so to speak.

Yep, and a lousy piece of fiction it is, too.

Well, satanic forces try to deceive people by mere optical even tangible illusions. Remember, inexplicable deeds of mere humans might be an angelic deeds (but fallen angels only).

Yeah, and the tooth fairy can be a real bitch sometimes.

Well, religion is a way also used by satan to deceive people or to confuse them. That's why St. James, brother in flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ in the new Testament of the Bible clearly stated it - Pure and undefiled religion (James 1:27) because in their times there were unpure and defiled religions already existing.

And they had gullible idiots in those days as well.

When we say SUPERIOR, it follows there is inferior and when we are superior to animals, because they cannot make a "mirror" and clothings of their own, we are nonetheless inferior to the Creator of the universe (pluriverses). Why? BECAUSE we are dependent on existing material: we make clothes, cook food, drink water etc because of their availability and we even breath because of the availability of oxygen. If only one can invent a material nonexisting in this phenomena called Universe...!

None of this makes particular sense, but "pluriverses" is going slightly too far.

I am not speculation norse, because I see a pattern. Animals started a little, then they brow and mature and die. Also we the human beings, started through fertility and at birth and crawl and walk upright and talked sensible utterance and mature and marry (except those solitary ones) and again do the human cycle and plan all things for the good. Likewise, the bad always looks for their own good!

You are not speculation?
Are you devo?
Are you Batman?
So much for "sensible utterance".
Your pattern proves nothing.

When we say SECRET, it really should be secret!

Should be?
According to whom?

Why should you want to see the invisible.

It's called curiosity.

Remember, human beings are intelligent beings in comparison to the lower animals. But they observe order.

And sometimes they create it and others times they imagine it.

Sea creatures live by a decree and human beings acknowledge that the king of the sea is the shark;

Except for the ones that don't, of course, orca don't seem to be too bothered by sharks for instance.

likewise the king of the jungle is the lion.

Since when do lions live in jungles?
I think you mean tiger.

Now, do they know that they are kings? Or those creatures who are frightened by their existence are just following a dictate planted in their emotions? Do they have freewill? Can they think if lions will to swim in the sea or the shark would escape from the sea for just 5 minutes?

There is just soo much wrong with it's hardly worth starting...

Well, free thinkers always think freely.

No shit?
I wonder if that's why they're called "free thinkers".

Rational thinking doesn't mean unbiased thinking.

Unfortunately some people don't know what "rational" means.

Anyway, why should you spend your life freely?

Why shouldn't you?

It's true, ants don't have any religion but they obeyed someone which I call God of the Bible, YHWH.

Nah, they have a little book of instructions to follow, written in very very tiny lettering: it's called "You Are An Ant - Get Used To It".

 

[kerux]

Actually you made me laugh

No hurt feelings. I made typographical errors. But I guess I delivered my message right to the one whose compo I commented.

 

[Oli]

Just because a message is delivered doesn't mean it will be read or understood.
And the fact of delivery has no bearing on the actual worth of the message: junk mail is junk mail.

 

[swarm]

I don't think your intelligence is high at all.

 

[Oli]

I don't think your intelligence is high at all.

Who was that addressed to?
:bawl: