Higher intelligence- serious possibility!

[Norsefire]

The possibility that there are beings with superior intelligence to humans is definitely serious, in my opinion, and I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

We get mixed up when religion makes irrational assertions and accepts them as truth, though.

Now, I've mentioned this before: a "deity", a being with superior intelligence to humans and significant impact on the physical world, is not, in itself, a ridiculous concept. We humans observe:

a) intelligence exists
b) intelligence is influential

Based on these simple observations, we can logically take it one further and suppose that even higher intelligence, whatever "higher" means, may exist; and that it may have even more significant influence than humans.

This is, of course, pure speculation, but it has a basis and, at least to me, is a very serious prospect.


The problem is, there are no observations to give us any insight as to the nature of said intelligence, the desires, the abilities, etc

These things stem from imagination and culture and false logic. A good evidence against any religion is that in different parts of the world, there are different religions (which means religion is not based on observation)

Taking the simple possibility of higher intelligence, it is not irrational; however, of course, it is still just speculation.

However, taking this concept and applying baseless details and then accepting it as truth, is not rational. This is religion.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

"The problem is, there are no observations to give us any insight as to the nature of said intelligence, the desires, the abilities, etc"


Are you blind.


peace.

 

[Norsefire]

"The problem is, there are no observations to give us any insight as to the nature of said intelligence, the desires, the abilities, etc"


Are you blind.


peace.

Please give me an example of an observation we can make that gives us insight into the nature of any intelligence.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Please give me an example of an observation we can make that gives us insight into the nature of any intelligence.

I had a real vision that showed me the intelligent design of the universe, it's the same design that your brains made out of. your imagination is like the universe on a smaller scale.

everything is designed perfectly better than anything any person could ever design.

Do you call a clock or a watch intelligent design?, and then call a working universe with the planet earth, all of its natural glory, and you yourself that is asking this very question "un-intelligent design".

go and create me something better than a human or even a oak tree.


peace.

 

[Norsefire]

I had a real vision that showed me the intelligent design of the universe, it's the same design that your brains made out of. your imagination is like the universe on a smaller scale.

Or, various substances in your head gave you a hallucination.

everything is designed perfectly better than anything any person could ever design.

Do you call a clock or a watch intelligent design?, and then call a working universe with the planet earth, all of its natural glory, and you yourself that is asking this very question "un-intelligent design".

Clocks and watches are intelligently designed, but subject to the laws of physics. The laws of physics, the nature, could be pure happenstance.


Also what you are saying is what I am saying: it is very rational to speculate that intelligence superior to human intelligent exists

I am talking about details, which we cannot say at this time.

 

[chris4355]

You can speculate all you want about anything buddy, the lack of proof will always keep you running in circles. :runaway:

I mean, if there's a higher intelligence that must have created us... then there must be an even higher intelligence that created that.

Interesting, a never ending stream of higher intelligences.

Thats pretty deep... but now I feel really stupid.

Or maybe this whole idea of yours doesn't make sense...

 

[swarm]

The higher the intelligence, the more likely it will ask for a slice of pizza!

 

[(Q)]

The possibility that there are beings with superior intelligence to humans is definitely serious, in my opinion, and I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

That would be a rational response to the evidence of life and intelligence having evolved on earth. Well done.

Now, I've mentioned this before: a "deity", a being with superior intelligence to humans and significant impact on the physical world, is not, in itself, a ridiculous concept.

That would be an irrational response to the myth and superstition and the ongoing cult indoctrination on earth. Sad, indeed.

 

[spidergoat]

You are correct, Norsefire. It is not unreasonable to assume that there could be entities with a higher or greater intelligence than our own.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The possibility that there are beings with superior intelligence to humans is definitely serious, in my opinion, and I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

No question, the evidence for life, intelligence, superiority and opinions is here.

Taking the simple possibility of higher intelligence, it is not irrational; however, of course, it is still just speculation.

Speculation? I've heard that word somewhere before. Yes we can speculate on a higher intelligence but until (you know) that's all we can do. I give it a Ripley's.

However, taking this concept and applying baseless details and then accepting it as truth, is not rational. This is religion.

If intelligence breeds irrational logic then does superior intelligence make it even more ridiculous? Like Chris4355 said, perhaps super races believe in a hierarchy of gods. Who the hell knows? Still ....speculation is just that, I agree.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

A good evidence against any religion is that in different parts of the world, there are different religions (which means religion is not based on observation).

I disagree. There are many different human cultures, so it is not surprising that deities, practices and beliefs are different. However, if you look at the core values, methods and experiences of all current major world religions, there are remarkable similarities.

All value compassion, love, peace, generosity etc.
All practice some form of renunciation of material attachments (monks, nuns etc.).
All have practices for quieting the mind, in the practices of silence, contemplation, meditation, prayer etc.

Taking the simple possibility of higher intelligence, it is not irrational; however, of course, it is still just speculation.

However, taking this concept and applying baseless details and then accepting it as truth, is not rational. This is religion.

The 'god' who is just 'a super-intelligent being' is a being like Zeus or Thor, and is not the eternal being that people refer to as 'God'.

'God' includes us all, i.e. our intelligence is 'an image' of the intelligence that permeates everything. We may discover the laws of the universe, but the maths existed before us, we just uncover it. "In the beginning was the logos". That also means other beings are part of us, and are therefore also precious. Hence the values of love and compassion etc. That is religion and is quite rational.

 

[Norsefire]

You can speculate all you want about anything buddy, the lack of proof will always keep you running in circles.

Speculation does have a place in discovery, however. I am not saying that we should take this speculation as truth; but as long as we do not know, and as long as the possibilities at hand remain logical and serious, we should not dismiss them.

I mean, if there's a higher intelligence that must have created us... then there must be an even higher intelligence that created that.

No, because we observe that complexity can derive from natural means
And that it can derive from intelligent means

Interesting, a never ending stream of higher intelligences.

See above.

And this is dependent on the nature of time; if existence has "always been", then yes, logically there must always be a "superior" intelligence.

Or maybe this whole idea of yours doesn't make sense...

It's rather simple. Cause and effect.

The only causes we observe are natural, and intelligent. The universe requires a cause. The universe, then, either had an intelligent cause or natural (nonintelligent) cause. Either way, they are both serious possibilities.

You are correct, Norsefire. It is not unreasonable to assume that there could be entities with a higher or greater intelligence than our own.

And this is "god"


Now, a rational argument for a tooth entity (such as the tooth fairy):

This is purely for example.


Let us say that one day, you lose a tooth, and that night you place it under your pillow and go to sleep. The next morning, your tooth is missing.

Logically, you know

a) it moved
b) it either moved without intelligent cause or because of intelligent cause

In this scenario, it is perhaps more likely that the latter is true. However, disregarding this, you must still ponder both possibilities.

Based on further investigation regarding your environment and natural influences, you dismiss the idea that your tooth dissappeared because of any nonintelligent influence.

Thus, you conclude that your tooth was moved by an intelligent entity

At this point, your conclusions are rational

If you speculate no further (as you cannot speculate any further with the information you have), I think you remain rational.


Now, let's say you go one further: you assume, for whatever reason, that not only was your tooth taken by an intelligent entity, but this entity was small and had wings, and a princess crown, and was called the tooth fairy, and liked teeth, and lived in a magical land.

At this point, your conclusions are irrational and baseless.

 

[chris4355]

Speculation does have a place in discovery, however. I am not saying that we should take this speculation as truth; but as long as we do not know, and as long as the possibilities at hand remain logical and serious, we should not dismiss them.

Thats the problem, I don't think its logical.

I think its fair game to say that maybe we are not smart enough to understand the world around us.

But to go as far and say "something created this" to me is just a way to dumb things down.

No, because we observe that complexity can derive from natural means
And that it can derive from intelligent means

And those intelligent means complexity derived from what?

And this is dependent on the nature of time; if existence has "always been", then yes, logically there must always be a "superior" intelligence.

Again, who knows? To say that there must be is rather selfish don't you think?

Why not accept the possibility that its simply beyond us to understand, for now.

It's rather simple. Cause and effect.

You are the one making it seem simple, I don't think it is.

 

[Xylene]

No question, the evidence for life, intelligence, superiority and opinions is here.



Speculation? I've heard that word somewhere before. Yes we can speculate on a higher intelligence but until (you know) that's all we can do. I give it a Ripley's.



If intelligence breeds irrational logic then does superior intelligence make it even more ridiculous? Like Chris4355 said, perhaps super races believe in a hierarchy of gods. Who the hell knows? Still ....speculation is just that, I agree.

If we speculate on the possibility of higher intelligences, what do they speculate about...What the hell were we thinking when we created those Human idiots?

 

[spidergoat]

And this is "god"

This would be an illogical conclusion. A higher intelligence could merely be another creature that came out of a process of evolution that simply had more intelligence than us. It is reasonable to assume such a being could exist somewhere in the universe. That does not make it omnipotent, omnipresent, and all the rest of the illogical attributes that are ascribed to a God.

 

[Norsefire]

This would be an illogical conclusion. A higher intelligence could merely be another creature that came out of a process of evolution that simply had more intelligence than us. It is reasonable to assume such a being could exist somewhere in the universe. That does not make it omnipotent, omnipresent, and all the rest of the illogical attributes that are ascribed to a God.

Ah, but I never said that higher intelligences had to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and all the rest; nor did I say they couldn't have evolved as we did

I simply said "superior intelligence and more significant influence over the physical world"

Religion is the one that makes illogical speculations based on nothing.

 

[spidergoat]

A superior intelligence doesn't make one a God. Such a creature might only appear to be one.

 

[Norsefire]

A superior intelligence doesn't make one a God. Such a creature might only appear to be one.

Now we're arguing semantics. A "deity", my definition, is an intelligent entity with significant influence over the physical world; since "significant" is an arbitrary term, I would define "significant" as at least posessing enough influence to alter spacetime itself.

Or, of course, an intelligent entity that creates another intelligent entity; therefore, extraterrestrials that could've created mankind, would be gods.

 

[spidergoat]

That doesn't fit the definition of a God, since they still have to abide by natural laws. If only a sufficiently advanced culture qualifies as Gods, then humans are destined to become Gods at some point in the future, if we aren't already. Having advanced technology doesn't make you a God.

 

[Norsefire]

Again, we're arguing semantics; how would you define a deity?

And who said that they didn't still have to abide by natural laws?


The only thing I am defending here is that higher intelligence is a logical possibility, and thus I believe that the idea that humanity was influenced or seeded by higher life is also logical.