Hey Athiests: How About Some Objectivity?

spidergoat said:
The idea that there are most likely aliens on other planets is not a faith position.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not, yet there is such a thing as reasoned faith that differs starkly from the unreasoned faith of the religionist.

My wife has been loyal, supportive, loving and tolerant of me for 33 years, so I have faith that she will continue to be so, and that faith is reasoned.

The religionist, on the other hand, is the latest in a long line of religionists who have never observed any empirical evidence that a supernatural universe exists and that creatures who live there capriciously interfere with the behavior of the natural universe. Yet they continue to have faith that one or more supernatural creatures exist because believing so makes them feel better, That faith is unreasoned.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
Perhaps not, yet there is such a thing as reasoned faith that differs starkly from the unreasoned faith of the religionist.

My wife has been loyal, supportive, loving and tolerant of me for 33 years, so I have faith that she will continue to be so, and that faith is reasoned.

The religionist, on the other hand, is the latest in a long line of religionists who have never observed any empirical evidence that a supernatural universe exists and that creatures who live there capriciously interfere with the behavior of the natural universe. Yet they continue to have faith that one or more supernatural creatures exist because believing so makes them feel better, That faith is unreasoned.
Click to expand...

You are OLD. :D Congratulations!

That is a valuable insight. We can believe (have faith) in a lot of things. Some with a broad and sound basis, others just based on hope. And then there is everything in between.

As for Aliens. There are just too much real estate out there to not have something very similar happen there (since the fact that it happened here shows that it CAN happen). We have our universe, and some of you know how frick'n many planets are in THAT, and then we have the infinite number of probable adjacent universes (as there is no reason to think there is some wall or empty space out there) and our little dynamic breathing universe seems like it might be just one bubble in an infinity of other bubbles of stuff in the infinite everywhere. I mean really, how can there be a limit? That's like the Truman Show. Who made that wall or that limit? And why?
 
gmilam said:
You would have to reverse those. You can't ask if something exists until you know what you're looking for?

The question, "Do crimples exist?" means nothing if you don't first define what a crimple is.
Click to expand...

Thankyou. I am having this very debate with JamesR. He's stretching aspects of this to breaking to breaking point.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Why atheists feel so strongly against the events on the NT? Even the miracles and supernatural stuff... Cant atheists enjoy a little poetry? You dont hear many people arguing against Rabindranath Tagore, or Jack Johnson; it is usefull to argue against prose, but it is absolutely useless to argue against poetry.
Click to expand...
If it were generally considered as poetry, I would not have a problem with it. But it's taken seriously and often literally.
Fraggle Rocker said:
Perhaps not, yet there is such a thing as reasoned faith that differs starkly from the unreasoned faith of the religionist.

My wife has been loyal, supportive, loving and tolerant of me for 33 years, so I have faith that she will continue to be so, and that faith is reasoned.

The religionist, on the other hand, is the latest in a long line of religionists who have never observed any empirical evidence that a supernatural universe exists and that creatures who live there capriciously interfere with the behavior of the natural universe. Yet they continue to have faith that one or more supernatural creatures exist because believing so makes them feel better, That faith is unreasoned.
Click to expand...
I understand and appreciate the distinction you are making, but I feel the terms should be separate. There is faith and there is reason. Faith is the opposite of reason. Your term "reasoned faith" would better be called a likely hypothesis based on evidence.
 
Varda said:
I have never heard of a robber who cares about the opinion of the person he is robbing.
Click to expand...

I was once robbed by 6 young guys at knifepoint; I gave them my wallet and they also asked for my watch. When they were going to run away I shouted: “Hey dude! Please throw my ID and credit card in the sidewalk!”... And he did.
 
Varda said:
Signal said:
Varda said:
It does not have to be verified, because my opinion matters only to myself.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the one who attempts to rob you.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of a robber who cares about the opinion of the person he is robbing.

I fail to see how that is pertinent.
Click to expand...

When you get robbed, would you not prefer that the robber would share your opinion, namely, that your opinion that you don't want to be robbed should matter to him or her?

Would you report a crime that you believe was done to you, or would you think "It's just my opinion that a crime was committed against me. And since my opinion matters only to myself, I will not do anything further, I will not go to the police or tell anyone about the crime." -?
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
I was once robbed by 6 young guys at knifepoint; I gave them my wallet and they also asked for my watch. When they were going to run away I shouted: “Hey dude! Please throw my ID and credit card in the sidewalk!”... And he did.
Click to expand...

Obviously, you hoped, and acted on that hope, that the robbers would care about your opinion that you deserve the ID and credit card.

You didn't think that your opinion matters only to yourself.
 
wellwisher said:
Do aliens from another planet or galaxy exist? There is no proof for this, yet many of the athiest have faith in this.

...

The parts of the brain being used by religion as well as alien mythology are the same, since both lack direct sensory reinforcement. This should be the way to scientifically classify both as religion or not. Instead atheism will use a subjective philosophy standard to stack the deck. I don't fall for this trick by the irrational atheists in rational clothing.
Click to expand...
I don't think that they are using the same parts of the brain, and here is why: the vast majority of atheists who believe that aliens from other planets or galaxies exist are also willing to cheerfully admit that they might be wrong about aliens existing. They have an opinion that aliens probably exist based on some reasoning or evidence, but it doesn't cause them any undue stress to imagine that their reasoning might be wrong and aliens might not exist.

The vast majority of theists, on the other hand, seem utterly unwilling to admit that there's even a possibility that they are wrong. They are (or at least claim to be) 100% certain. I have asked plenty of theists over the years what sort of evidence it would take to convince them that their god didn't exist, and nearly every single one has responded that there is nothing that could possibly convince them that they are wrong. They also tend to get really hostile and defensive about it, even when the question is posed in a polite way, as if the very idea that they could be wrong about their god made them uncomfortable.

So it seems to me that there are two very different parts of the brain at work in atheists who believe in aliens vs. theists. If you can find some atheists who say that they are 100% certain that aliens exist and that nothing could ever possibly change their mind, and who get all hostile and defensive at the very notion, then I would agree that there's a good chance they are using the same parts of the brain as is used by theists.
 
AlphaNumeric said:
Because despite there being plenty of historians from that time and supposedly loads of eye witnesses no contemporary account outside of the bible exists for many of the events.

When Jesus was killed the bible says the dead, the ****ing DEAD, got out of their graves and walked into town. You'd think someone would have written about a 'zombie invasion' happening, wouldn't you? You'd think word would get back to Roman the dead had risen.

Weird how no one mentioned it, even people like Josephus only mentioned Jesus in passing and it was years later. If I'd see the dead rise I'd have told everyone.
Click to expand...
Not as dramatic as the zombie uprising, but consider the Jewish historian Josephus writing about Herod. Josephus pulls no punches complaining about Herod being a corrupt, incompetent ass of a ruler - but somehow, Josephus never bothers to mention Herod inexplicably ordering the massacre of an entire town's male babies. Even though Josephus goes on at great length complaining about all sorts of other, much less interesting and not-nearly-as-bad stuff that Herod did...
 
wellwisher said:
Do aliens from another planet or galaxy exist? There is no proof for this, yet many of the athiest have faith in this. Atheism will discusss the basis for the aliens, with faith in the mental analysis of probability. But there is still no smoking gun to get beyond the faith. Is this a religion in the sense of faith in something not seen and not proven?
Click to expand...

Are you implying that theists reject the possibility of life on other planets completely? If so, based upon what?

If not, then it's not just atheists that hold the position there may be life on other planets, and your little rant becomes rather deflated.
 
You might be getting a little sloppy with "faith". I thought faith was believing something either in the absence of any evidence, or against the weight of the evidence.

That's not quite the same as postulating a theory that is consistent with what we know, and is merely an extension of it. Also, the former tends to be unassailable, whereas the latter is held as likely to be true, awaiting either further confirmation or contradiction.
 
jmpet said:
My biggest obstacle to Jesus The Son is the vast amount of healings He did- something few can fake, even with 21st century pharmacology, with AD30 pharmaceuticals at hand.
Click to expand...
there are arguments that the power of healing was not in Jesus but in the person who believed Jesus could.
there has never been anyone else as believable as jesus, (see telemarketing)
so ppl do not believe they can heal themselves,so they don't.


Turns out we can.
Click to expand...
i'm not as think as you messed up i am..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top