Heaven on Earth

[SnakeLord]

What's this then?

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force."

Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Hey, I didn't write it..

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

As no one has ever gone into heaven, it seems unlikely that anyone is taking it by force- be they violent or not. While I hate to say it, it would seem that the statement is a metaphor probably meaning that people are trying to force their entrance to heaven by being rich and great and whatnot when they can't do so by force, but by being like children.

 

[pasquala]

I’m not sure if I thoroughly understand what it is you are asking. It’s past my bedtime and I am tired, but let me give this one a shot. Bare with me.
First off, I have explored many different denominations of religion looking for the one that I feel most comfortable in and I have came to this...Heaven is not on earth, but when all is said and done earth will still be the home of mankind. Heaven will be a place of government (sort of speaking that is). The Jehovah’s Witnesses often speak of the 144,000 people. Everyone assumes that they are claiming that only 144,000 people will survive and make it to Heaven. This is not true. The JWs do not claim this to be the case. So many people and cultures despise the Witnesses so much that they refuse to listen to their whole belief. No, I am not a JW. I just know a thing or two about them and what they believe in. Anyway their belief is actually this.
1. The earth will be destroyed.
2. Jesus Christ will come again to judge the living and the dead.
3. There will be 144,000 GOD chosen people who will govern from Heaven
4. Mankind will then rebuild the earth to a perfect state as was the Garden of Eden.
5. There will be eternal life and Satan will exist no more.
When GOD first created the earth and placed Adam and Eve on it, it was a perfect place. Then sin played into the picture and the earth became corrupted. That’s when he destroyed earth and everything on it with the great flood. In order to replenish it, he called on the help of a faithful servant, Noah. Unfortunately evil prevailed still because Satan still existed and not to mention that Noah carried sin over to the new beginning. Now as most everyone knows how the story goes....jump ahead to Revelations.....John’s vision....Armageddon....so on, so on...the earth will be destroyed and we will know sin no more. Satan and his crew will be destroyed. How many people do you think will GOD give eternal everlasting life to? I’d say the numbers are too great to count. There will have to be order. People to help run the show....a government. After all there is a systematic order to all things in nature. This is the purpose of the 144.000. They will be the ones to live in Heaven and man the stations as GOD and Jesus has and is preparing. There should be a whole lot of people working to repair the earth, get it up to code, and keep it there. There has to be some sort of organization to it all. The earth still has to be maintained. 144,000 positional managers doesn’t seem so unrealistic if one is considering the entire earth. Who are these people? GOD knows who they are. Some of them may not have even been born yet. Anyway that’s beside the point. Now here is the kicker!!! Break down the Lord’s prayer if you will which was the prayer that Jesus himself taught to his disciples.....”Our father who art in Heaven” - pretty self-explanatory. GOD is in Heaven. Jesus said it point blank. “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done here as it is in Heaven” - WOW! Spoken in simple words Jesus is saying - we wait for the day that your will will be done here on earth the same way as it is in Heaven. Therefore there is a Heaven and an earth and there will come a day when the earth will be the annex to Heaven because GOD’s will will be done (not Satan’s). Well there you have it. There are no hidden meanings or bible codes to decipher. I can’t understand for the life of me why so many people think that GOD has some sort of great big riddle for us all to figure out.
I want to add that I am in no way, shape, or form any kind of bible scholar or anything close to it. I just attended a lot of different churches, listened, learned, and don‘t mind speaking of that which I have learned. For the record I am a Methodist. Also I do not in any way intend to insult any non-believers or be excused of preaching. I respect everyone as I hope they would respect me and my beliefs. I hope I have not misunderstood the question purposed in this thread. If so, forgive me.
PS - excuse any typos. I am tired.

 

[lightgigantic]

Feel free to bash or to build on the following idea. It seems to be a popular concept that floats around in various forms and is the notion that life is heaven, here and now. Heaven then can be summed up as being life itself or, "life is a beach."

this is simply the notion of material happiness - namely the mitigation of material distress (I would argue that spiritual happiness is something distinct from merely not detecting any trauma on our long distance radars) - just liek a person who is getting dunked in the water almost to the point of drowning - 'heaven' is when they are pulled out by the hair and they relish being able to breath (until they are dunked back in the water again)

I recall watching a program where several leaders representing various religions were asked questions regarding the nature of Heaven and the afterlife. The thing that struck me about their answers was that many of those things they described seemed attainable here on Earth. Short of immortality as we might understand it, anything that we might want seems to be here.

its not uncommon for people to focus on material benedictions in determining the merits of their faith - I would argue that this outlook is not perfectional however

A couple of questions:

If life here is not heaven, what is absent that we cannot call it such?

spiritual life is sat (eternal) cit (full of knowledge) ananda (full of bliss)
material life is temporary, full or uneasiness and ignorance and frequently woeful

If life is heaven, what then is perfection?[/QUOTE

SB 1.2.13: O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to caste divisions and orders of life is to please the Personality of Godhead.

in other words if one is a business man, one should try and please god with one's business acumen, if one is a mother one should try and please god with one's maternal duties etc etc

 

[Bowser]

this is simply the notion of material happiness - namely the mitigation of material distress (I would argue that spiritual happiness is something distinct from merely not detecting any trauma on our long distance radars) - just liek a person who is getting dunked in the water almost to the point of drowning - 'heaven' is when they are pulled out by the hair and they relish being able to breath (until they are dunked back in the water again)

You sound like a Baptist.

its not uncommon for people to focus on material benedictions in determining the merits of their faith - I would argue that this outlook is not perfectional however

Wealth does not necessarily mean God is smiling down on you?

spiritual life is sat (eternal) cit (full of knowledge) ananda (full of bliss)
material life is temporary, full or uneasiness and ignorance and frequently woeful

Existence without doubt (faith?)

SB 1.2.13: O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to caste divisions and orders of life is to please the Personality of Godhead.

in other words if one is a business man, one should try and please god with one's business acumen, if one is a mother one should try and please god with one's maternal duties etc etc

That is a curiosity.

 

[lightgigantic]

Bowser
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
this is simply the notion of material happiness - namely the mitigation of material distress (I would argue that spiritual happiness is something distinct from merely not detecting any trauma on our long distance radars) - just liek a person who is getting dunked in the water almost to the point of drowning - 'heaven' is when they are pulled out by the hair and they relish being able to breath (until they are dunked back in the water again)
”
You sound like a Baptist.

that was a materialist's version of happy - defining heaven by one's proximity to material happiness is merely placing oneself a distance from misery (can you think of any material opulence that escapes this definition?)
On the topic of actual heaven, it is something quite different

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
its not uncommon for people to focus on material benedictions in determining the merits of their faith - I would argue that this outlook is not perfectional however
”
Wealth does not necessarily mean God is smiling down on you?

obviously not
there are some sayings in countries that translate as "If you want to know what god thinks of money you just have to look at who he gives it to"

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
spiritual life is sat (eternal) cit (full of knowledge) ananda (full of bliss)
material life is temporary, full or uneasiness and ignorance and frequently woeful
”
Existence without doubt (faith?)

since the existence involves the quality of cit (knowledge), it seems thatthe lack of doubt is attained by knowledge - just like one can be without a doubt that fire is hot by knowledge and not just necessarily faith

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
SB 1.2.13: O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to caste divisions and orders of life is to please the Personality of Godhead.

in other words if one is a business man, one should try and please god with one's business acumen, if one is a mother one should try and please god with one's maternal duties etc etc
”
That is a curiosity.

different strokes for different folks

 

[one_raven]

why the f**k would I want to

Simply because you haven't.
Isn't experience the whole point of life?

surely it would be better to be myself, and enjoy the experience, than have a drug control me.
it would be like date rape, with me being the drugged victim.

What??
You've never taken drugs at all before, have you?

 

[geeser]

Simply because you haven't.
Isn't experience the whole point of life?

yes, but changing you personality is no experience.

What??
You've never taken drugs at all before, have you?

no, and I would want too, I'm very happy being me.
I watched as my brother changed, from one person to another when he had been drinking, I watched numerous friends change from healthy, likable people, to bitter hateful people, because of drugs.

 

[one_raven]

yes, but changing you personality is no experience.

First of all, I don't think all drugs "change your personality", but even if they did, of course that is an experience - some people enjoy the experience and some people don't, but it is certainly an experience.
If you don't think it is, I don't know how you define experience.

no, and I would want too, I'm very happy being me.
I watched as my brother changed, from one person to another when he had been drinking, I watched numerous friends change from healthy, likable people, to bitter hateful people, because of drugs.

I would never try to push drugs onto anyone who doesn't want to do them.
My finace has never tried - I completely respect that.

However, to come to conclusions about what it would feel like, and say things like...

why the f**k would I want to, surely it would be better to be myself, and enjoy the experience, than have a drug control me.
it would be like date rape, with me being the drugged victim.

...is just ignorant and silly in my opinion.

"I've never tried drugs and never will because I would not like them" is a ridiculous statement, don't you think?

Have you ever read "Green Eggs and Ham"?
How could you possibly know what it feels like if you have never felt it?