Geez, Democrats used to know what to do about loud, obnoxious protesters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
Health Care Bill Debate
- Thread starter madanthonywayne
- Start date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
That wasn't Democrats.
The speaker was John Kerry, and it was on a college campus, not usually strong Republican territory.
Take a look at the original Republican Mob Squad:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/...ublicans-Sent-Angry-Mobs-To-Disrupt-Something
This has become common place Republican tactics. You see it in the media hannity, limbaugh, etc. The message is one of hate. When backed into a corner with reason and fact, scream your bloody head off and keep others from speaking as well.
In the case of the 2000 election Republican leaders sent in their congressional staff to serve in the roll of outraged rioter. Personally, I have serious issues with using federal tax dollars to interfer with local elections. Apparently the Republican leadership has no such qualms.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/...ublicans-Sent-Angry-Mobs-To-Disrupt-Something
This has become common place Republican tactics. You see it in the media hannity, limbaugh, etc. The message is one of hate. When backed into a corner with reason and fact, scream your bloody head off and keep others from speaking as well.
In the case of the 2000 election Republican leaders sent in their congressional staff to serve in the roll of outraged rioter. Personally, I have serious issues with using federal tax dollars to interfer with local elections. Apparently the Republican leadership has no such qualms.
Well when your position is as weak as the positions of the teabaggers, what other choice do they have but yell and scream to keep the truth from coming out and becoming well known?
OK. I watched all of the links. The Biship one was the most disrupted. I've been to meetings where "we the people" were displeased by the local governments efforts to 'improve' our lives. People do shout as they are talked down to. People do shout when the majority in the room who are against [insert wild ass and expensive plan here] and the 5-8 people sitting there are ignoring the majority and shoving an issue down your throat. Just went to one in March that ended that way. Had nothing to do with Obama, democrats/republicans, and was completely about a local issue.
What I saw was people saying the same things they are saying around the tables at lunch break when none of the people who are responsible for the mess are present. Some get angry and you can hear it in their voices. Others are scared and you hear it in their voices. Biship didnt help control the room with his eye rolling and other gestures of anger. How dare he get pissy in an economy like this when he's pimping ANOTHER billion dollar baby.
Biship has a million ways to get his message out. He was ignorant and arrogant to think those meetings would be about the "obama idea". Those meetings are nearly 100% of the time the only opportunity his constituents have to get their message to their rep. They said it to his face. Will he listen? Most were just asking for the Gov to SLOW down and quit spending money like you work on Wall street....
What I saw was people saying the same things they are saying around the tables at lunch break when none of the people who are responsible for the mess are present. Some get angry and you can hear it in their voices. Others are scared and you hear it in their voices. Biship didnt help control the room with his eye rolling and other gestures of anger. How dare he get pissy in an economy like this when he's pimping ANOTHER billion dollar baby.
Biship has a million ways to get his message out. He was ignorant and arrogant to think those meetings would be about the "obama idea". Those meetings are nearly 100% of the time the only opportunity his constituents have to get their message to their rep. They said it to his face. Will he listen? Most were just asking for the Gov to SLOW down and quit spending money like you work on Wall street....
Look at those guys. They look like Republican operatives. A bunch of white guys, well groomed, many in suits and ties. Now look at the recent videos. Please point out the operatives as was done with the above photo.
Please take off your partisan blinders. Both sides do it. Ever hear of Acorn?
What the hell are you talking about? That they hate high taxes and wasteful government spending? Or are you just mouthing the typical Democratic party line criticism of any Republican?
Again, take off your partisan blinders. How many conservative speakers have been shouted down by leftwing protesters, especially on college campuses? A few examples to refresh your memory"
http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org/news/2687/being-shouted-down
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/11/29/cstillwell.DTL
http://westernstandard.bitcurve.com...ted-down-at-st-francis-xavier-university.html
I disagree with the Democrats on most issues, but (unlike you) I don't labor under the illusion that the Republicans are some sort of angels. Politicians are, for the most part, scumbags. Hell, most of them are lawyers which makes them scumbags even before they became politicians.
Biship
I especially liked Biship asking one of the people who suggested cutting the budget and Biship says "where should we start, Social Security?"
Prick.
How about starting with his health coverage and make congress and senators (after out of office) use the VA hospitals, the same VA hospitals Biship used as an example for gov health care...Scoff... and the arrogant prick even had the nerve to say that to a vet.
I especially liked Biship asking one of the people who suggested cutting the budget and Biship says "where should we start, Social Security?"
Prick.
How about starting with his health coverage and make congress and senators (after out of office) use the VA hospitals, the same VA hospitals Biship used as an example for gov health care...Scoff... and the arrogant prick even had the nerve to say that to a vet.
on a scale of 1-10
1 being angelic
10 being devilish
where would you place the dems and reps
think recent history
say 30yrs?
The Democrats are jerks, but the only use for a Republican is using his entrails for fish-bait. The greater of two evils is still the greater evil, anyway you slice it. No more "protest votes" for me. I learned my lesson. A third party is going to have to wait until the GOP is so damaged that they no longer have a devil's chance of winning anymore. That's all there is to it. For all the Democratic party's faults, the GOP just can't be trusted. They're all the same. They will never change. There really is no exception.
Last edited:
Thanks. All that said, McCain is almost an exception, but I realized retrospectively, after having given him a fairer shot than he deserved last year, that this is really just because he's a hapless, well-meaning tool. I saw a well-meaning would-be figurehead and still see that in him, but I saw all the same people pulling the strings. Maybe he didn't orchestrate the personal destruction against Obama, but he lacked the spine to say anything against it. Maybe it wasn't McCain's idea to drive a vicious, hateful wedge between Obama and his spiritual advisor (the same pastor that Oprah Winfrey used to go to, NOT the radical that people made him out to be), but I clearly remember that McCain was silent during this...travesty. He saw one wrong after another being commited, yet he was silent. Maybe he was silent out of weakness, but it's all the same.
Read the lablels, they are identified by name.
Look at those guys. They look like Republican operatives. A bunch of white guys, well groomed, many in suits and ties. Now look at the recent videos. Please point out the operatives as was done with the above photo..
Since when did Acorn representatives start rioting in order to stop elections and prevent people from voicing their questions? Just one example would be fine.
.
None, try again. There is nothing on the Democratic side that can even begin to compare with the Nazi like storm troopers used by Republicans.
And again, federal dollars should not be spent to skew local elections.
p/s I am not a partisan. I am not a Democrat. I am an American. I guess that makes me an Independent who is fed up with Republican mismanagement and general crap.
Now you are concerned about government spending? Where were you during these last eight years when bubba junior doubled the national debt?
Last edited:
Just call yourself a Democrat. They're going to call you one anyway. Besides, if you register Democratic, it's easier to participate in the primaries in some states. And that's ALL of the primaries, mind you. The Presidential ticket is not the ony election that has a primary and then a general.
That said, I am Democratic mosty because I think we have a significantly better hope for cleaning the scum out of the Democratic party than we do the GOP. Furthermore, I think that all Democrats should start pushing for a greater power of choice. More power to the people. Better transparency. Less nepotism.
You look to me like the same people who ran the Bush campaign. As with them, your tactics are clearly intended to deceive, not to inform. Since it is wrong to make this sort of accusation without attempting to justify it, though, I will explain to you and our friends here why this accusation against you is justified. Afterward, you may defend yourself at your leisure. Until then, my accusation against you stands unchallenged.
1) By claiming that "the constituency" has turned out to protest, you are trying to pigeonhole anyone who disagrees with your views as being against "the constituency." To you, people who don't adhere to your views don't really count, do they? This is a familiar tactic, and I think it truly shows what is wrong with the GOP and anyone who follows them.
The GOP did something very similar during the presidency of George Walker Bush: in their rhetoric, they began trying to equate "Bush" to "America" by describing anti-Bush protestors as "anti-American." Fortunately, this is getting to be very old hat, and nobody falls for it anymore. Unfortunately, it is nonetheless a very cunning tactic. After all, millions of Americans were deceived by it for several years before the stunt wore out.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/05/content_11827607.htm
Part of the reason that this rhetorical trick has worn off is that many GOP supporters have been misapplying it. For example, the above link leads to an article that discusses some very interesting poll results. Although MadAnthonyWayne wants us to believe that there is overwhelming opposition to Obama's plan, using terms like en masse to describe only a few dozen protesters, only 30% of all Americans really oppose it.
This trick has worn out its use, MadAnthonyWayne. You are in the minority, and we don't find your rhetorical tricks intimidating anymore. In fact, your tactics here have not even been very creative, and I am actually pretty insulted that you really considered us to be so credulous.
2) You are criticizing Obama for defending his plan for American healthcare. However, you know very well that Obama is within his rights to publicly support his own policies.
This is classic GOP jiujitsu, and I want all of you to take note of it. It is very dangerous, and it is still very effective. What they are trying to do is make it look like Barack Obama is stepping outside of his bounds in defending his policies, so they can accuse him of "forcing" something on us.
This trick is very effective, and it can severely hobble a less savvy politician's ability to defend his views. I suggest watching how Barack Obama gets out of these binds. There is a lot that good Democrats can learn from watching this highly skilled politician.
3) Finally, a term that all Democrats should know by heart is "astroturf." The GOP is very weak in the area of building up grassroots support, so they often need to work through operatives to generate the appearance of grassroots support for their policies or candidates. This is what we are referring to as "astroturf." Although the Democrats have occasionally been guilty of the same tactic, they don't really find it as necessary to resort to it. The Democrats are specialists in the area of using real grassroots support.
As a very relevant degression, I would like to make a note about the so-called "Blue Dogs." This is another trick that the GOP has had a lot of success with over the years. The GOP and its supporters like to use disagreements within the Democratic Party as evidence that their views and policies have "bipartisan" support. They do not, but we should try to remember that most of our fellow Americans are trusting, largely innocent human beings.
I am a so-called "blue dog," although I do not use that term to describe myself, because I think that a more modest healthcare reform bill should be passed. So do many Democrats. Now, the GOP is trying to convince our fellow Americans that this means I am against any healthcare reform at all. This is essentially just like any other example of GOP-style jiujitsu. The Democrats are more responsible and more critical than the GOP, and not all of them want to allow such a large bill to pass without examination. Many of us would like to examine how we could make Obama's reforms more cost-effective and less expensive for the taxpayer.
Unfortunately, the GOP is attempting to color this as a lack of unity or organization, and they are using this to convince Americans that they have more bipartisan support for their views than they actually do. A lot of Americans are falling for it because most Americans, including many who are misguidedly voting GOP, are decent, trusting people who cannot really understand how deeply people like MadAnthonyWayne are deceiving them.
I am a Democrat, and I support healthcare reform. I support President Barack Obama, and I truly do hope that we Democrats can come up with a more cost-effective compromise to the proposed bill. We will settle on a workable compromise by year's end, within the bounds of our deadline, whether you like it or not, MadAnthonyWayne.
Feel free to come and defend yourself, Anthony, but I truly think that you intended to deceive us and other Americans, using a few rhetorical parlour tricks.
Last edited:
ja
it does seem now that momentum has been lost and we sit around thinking our work is done. complacency is probably the greatest enemy. i am rarely moved by rhetoric but belafonte's speech at a ball still resounds....
.......and to once again ground ourselves in the commitment and the belief that for Barack Obama to achieve the success that his administration should achieve, it will be deeply rooted in what we do, we, who are here gathered, and the people of America. It is an opportunity for us to force our voices into the mainstream of the decision-making process.
We have done this before. We have been here before. When John Kennedy was the president of the United States of America, and we had an inaugural ball and all the festivities, this nation was filled with a great sense of hope in the future. And what we understood was that only those who were committed to peace, those who were committed to the civil rights movement, those who were committed to the women’s movement, those who were committed to progressive politics, had a critical role to play, and that was to be the caretakers of truth and the political future of America. John Kennedy came, not fully understanding the measure of that responsibility until we sat with him on numerous occasions to convince him that what we stood for was honorable, was moral and politically correct.
We have to do exactly the same thing with Barack Obama. If he fails, it is because we have failed. And if we succeed, there is no question that he will succeed..........(link)
ja
2010 mid terms and gubernatorial elections. what do we do? i for one, am clueless and apathetic (for now)
the 2010 landscape
More dishonesty ... big surprise
One of the most idiotic things about conservative logic is this bizarre sense of analogy. If you drop a name as a comparison, does that mean the comparison is accurate? Apparently so, since the similarity is never explained.
What, exactly, are you referring to? When did high profile Acorn members stage a miniature riot in order to intimidate election officials into a specific outcome and then claim it was a grass roots effort?
Madanthonywayne said:
One of the most idiotic things about conservative logic is this bizarre sense of analogy. If you drop a name as a comparison, does that mean the comparison is accurate? Apparently so, since the similarity is never explained.
What, exactly, are you referring to? When did high profile Acorn members stage a miniature riot in order to intimidate election officials into a specific outcome and then claim it was a grass roots effort?
this is whats on the tauzin's end of the table....
For his part, Tauzin said he had not only received the White House pledge to forswear Medicare drug price bargaining, but also a separate promise not to pursue another proposal Obama supported during the campaign: importing cheaper drugs from Canada or Europe. Both proposals could cost the industry billions, undermine its ability to develop new cures and, in the case of imports, possibly compromise safety, industry officials contend.
lets look at the second..."compromising safety". i do not need to do any research to figure out that premise is patently false and disingenuous. why then would i keep it off the table?
as for having an adverse impact on industry profits...lets crunch numbers
we already know how badly they did after the last set of reforms in 2006