Gods plan.
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Well the output of human thoughts and deeds are both evil and good. But we have the ability to come to the knowledge of our own condition. We have the ability to love what is good and abhor what is evil about us. We can try to think and do good and try to resist evil thoughts and deeds but we cannot rectify the situation by our own striving. I have Hope for the intervention of God that shall change the current state of humanity. Where else can true hope ever come from.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Ok, but I said humanity, not individual humans. There is a fairly big difference
Why would he intervene ? He allowed it so far..
Ok, but I said humanity, not individual humans. There is a fairly big difference
Take my answer to cover all humanity then. And humanity is made up of individuals as we know.
Yes He has allowed it. But i believe He allowed it for a purpose, once that purpose is fulfilled then He will bring this state of our existence to an end.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
A heavy bomber is also made out of individual molecules that are quite harmless on their own..
How do you know this isn't how it's supposed to be ?
Perfect according to the bible means..."Blameless" or without fault. So what you said above was an uninformed statement or opinion because it lacked facts.
According to the Hebrew word for sin those that are flawed have "missed the Mark". It was a word used to describe a marksmen failure to hit a target. It also meant "to fall short". Jesus was described as blameless thus perfect. He had the ability to choose between right or wrong. His dying loyal proved the perfect human design is fully capable of making right choices.
Job proved that even a man born in sin can make the right choices even when presented with his own mortality. As a result the Angels and Adam And Eve were flawless untill they corrupted themselves, damgaged.
I can only presume that you believe that you view choice as an error.
Yes. And a heavy bomber does not have a spirit either; a heavy bomber does not know good and evil.
Just because something is allowed for a time does not mean that it is good. Scriptures say God is longsuffering towards us. If the way we are now is good then the descriptive word Longsuffering would not apply.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
kerux
Registered Senior Member
satan?
satan has no free-will now. he chose to become God's adversary. he rebelled already. but in his previous state, he wasn't the devil yet but that anointed cherub told in the book of ezekiel. because of the wrong imagination in his heart, he fell and thus ended his being with God. If only God the Creator knew beforehand that lucifer will have become satan in his last state, he should not have created him. :shrug:
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You are taking the analogy too far.
A heavy bomber has an innate ability to cause death and destruction because of it's design. Humanity is the same way.
And remember that this is an analogy, I'm not in any way subscribing to intelligent design.
My point was that maybe it isn't 'allowed', but that this is how it's supposed to be. No allowing required..
And if everything is how it's supposed to be, it doesn't have to be good or evil. It is like it is.
Yes, but he did know.
That's the difference between a purpose an a plan.
A plan is structured, precision, and unyielding. Therefor there is either room for all of us or not. Either God planned all of us down to that detail or not.
A purpose however is closed ended. It only describes the conclusion making room for detours if they need to be taken. A purpose allows for choices other than your own.
God did not hold back from creating Satan because he did bring up a question of "right to rule". God did not shrink back from the consequences but allowed everything to proceed. Being all knowing he likely knew that there were many ways to avoid this outcome but settling the matter was more important than stiffling the rebels.
If he had stopped the Angel who became Satan he would have also stopped all of us from existing. The choice is an odd one. Any number of realities could have resulted from God choosing a course that avoided all these things but somehow I don't think God is the sort to second guess himself. He does what is good even if his creations chose not to.
So god doesn't know everything then? He sounds so, human.
agreed. i am exceedingly good at destroying box, minge and poontang.
I wondered for a while why you even introduced the analogy. It seems to have little or no relation to the issue at hand.
I disagree. There is evil and there is good. The way it is, is not the way it was designed. But the way it was allowed to go for a time to reveal the truth and fulfil a greater purpose.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
If he had stopped the Angel who became Satan he would have also stopped all of us from existing.
Satan is just something that was invented by man to take the imperfections off of god
Satan is just something that was invented by man to take the imperfections off of god
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I believe the issue at hand was the question, "Is humanity evil?"
My analogy is perfectly relevant to that.
Good and evil do not objectively exist.
Besides, if it did, evil is created by God. Does that make him evil ?
So god doesn't speak English very well?
According to his personal religious fanatics, of course the people who put him to death might have felt otherwise.
God is a cruel, spiteful and capricious master.
You god seems pretty second rate.
Why would a god need this? Seems like if your #1 guy and a third of your staff try to kill you over your policies, you aren't proving your "right" to rule.
Like he had a choice.
You really like making stuff up.
You mean like destroying the planet and then feeling bad about it and promising not to lose his temper again?