God's parenting skills.. or lack thereof

[Xelios]

I was inspired to write this post by what was said in the 'Noah's Ark' thread about God not being to blame for what is going on in the world today. I beg to differ. Most theists say it is us who are to blame for the evil things in the world, and this is partly true, however God is not without blame as well. Lets look at the relationship a mother has to her child.

If you had to guess, how many mothers would simply stand by idley as their child is raped, tortured or even murdered if they knew they could do something to prevent it? If they could simply snap their fingers and keep their child from harm would they do it? I contend that the vast majority of parents would.

God is in this very position. He has the power to prevent all evil from happening to his children. He has the power to stop rape, torture or murder with no effort at all. Any parent with this power would surely use it to protect their children, yet strangely God does not. This can suggest only one thing. That a human parent's love for their children is greater than that of God's love for us.

By refusing to prevent atrocities, God is no better than a parent who leaves toxic chemicals in an infant's toybox, or leaves a loaded gun in the kitchen drawer. Just as we would blame these people if anything bad should happen due to their refusal to prevent it, we too should blame God for his.

In conclusion, I contend that God is at least half to blame for all evil in the world today. After all, compared to God we are mere infants, and just because an infant technically has the choice not to ingest a toxic substance doesn't mean a parent is free to leave it within its reach.

 

[stray dog]

Perhaps...

we have been given this short time on Earth to learn how to
live in peace, and love. We are born into this physical world
and my how time flies. What have we learned from history, from our forfathers? Of course we do not want any harm to befall our children, or ourselves. Do not put the blame on the Creator.
You are here to learn how to live in peace.

Can this world go one day without a single criminal act?
It is up to the individuals to be kind. Look at the big picture;
We have been placed in the garden to live. If every person
were kind, there would be no harm done to others.

We are here to learn how to properly treat others.
"Your deep sky observations are complimented by observations of you"

Do not put blame on the Creator for giving you life, but put the blame on your fellow man for making it sometimes miserable.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Xelios,

Are you a parent? Cause it is pretty hard to control children, you know...? Mainly when you have so many...

Anyways... I admire God for His parenting skills. Really... there is a girl that I Love very much. She is almost like a daughter for me (this would probably sound strange for her... but that's because she doesn't know what is within me....). Anyways... She has ebing doing something wrong... but it seems right to her. I see that she will eventually get hurt, but I can do nothing. I tried to get her out of the situation and I finished really screwed. Honestly... even when you care and Love your children, they don't understand you and even think that you have something against them...

Well... the same thing for God. He Loves us and cares about us, but if we keep doing wrong, He can do nothing but trying to tell us not to do so. Don't you think He tries to help us? He does! The problem is that we don't listen! And many of us can't even understand Him, because we are not grown enough to understand His language. Does a 3 month baby understand what their parents are saying? I don't think so... And most people are under this condition compared to God... :bugeye:

 

[matnay]

Honestly... even when you care and Love your children, they don't understand you and even think that you have something against them....... Don't you think He tries to help us? He does! The problem is that we don't listen!

First of all, God is supposed to be all-powerful, so He should be able to get anything across to our stubborn minds that He wants to. Second of all, Xelios's question wasn't "Why doesn't God guide us?" His point was that God has the power to stop evil, so why doesn't He just stop it from happening?

 

[Xelios]

Thank you matnay, I was about to say the same thing.

I'm not asking why God doesn't tell us what's wrong and what's right, because he obviously has with the 10 commandments. God has the ability to keep his children from harm, something he could easily do. In spite of this, he chooses not to, and instead chooses to sit by idley while his children are beaten, raped, tortured, murdered etc.

A human parent would never sit by and do nothing in these situations if they had the power to save their child from harm. My question is, why is God's love for us less than a human mother's love for her child?

 

[wesmorris]

hrmph. what kind of asshole gives you a gift and then expects you to be all "ooooooooooooooooooooh, you're SO cool" all the time. don't you think that if that asshole gave you a gift and "he" was truly benevolent "he" wouldn't expect shit from you except for you to enjoy the gift? i'd think if "he" felt differently he'd let me know a little more directly than a butt-raper telling me all about what I'm spozed to be doing for his "friend" that gave me that cool gift.

ack.

is that how religion is supposed to work?

 

[matnay]

What does God do nowadays anyway? He has all the time in the world. He only has to overlook and maintain one measly planet. He can't even do that right! He performs sparadic miracles every once in a while, and then he lets everything else turn to shit during his down time. That's no way to run a planet. It seems to me he's been slacking lately.

hrmph. what kind of asshole gives you a gift and then expects you to be all "ooooooooooooooooooooh, you're SO cool" all the time. don't you think that if that asshole gave you a gift and "he" was truly benevolent "he" wouldn't expect shit from you except for you to enjoy the gift?

Exactly. If God spent half the effort he puts into his own ego and selfish tendencies into the bettering of our planet, we'd be in paradise.

 

[stray dog]

We are in Paradise!!!

We have to distinguish between good and evil.

We have been given this life, it is up to us to learn
to live in peace with each other.

We will all die. How will you live your life?

Can we not control our own destiny while living in Paradise?
We have been given the glorious gift of life, so now we
must learn how to live in peace.


As you grow older, you will realize how fast time
slips away...

We are here for a reason; we are here to live in peace.

Why does God let bad things happen?
This is the world we have been born into, and this world
has it's own way (natural disasters ie. floods, volcanos,
earhquakes, etc.)

This is our physical environment. This is nature.
We must learn to live in this environment, for it was
born of the Creation.

We must learn to live with each other. What alien
would want to visit such a violent society?

No one said it would be easy. We must continue
to try and help each other, and we must continue to learn
about our world and about ourselves.
Do not put the blame on your Creator, for we have so
much more to learn about our world and about our meaning
in life.

 

[TruthSeeker]

matnay,

First of all, God is supposed to be all-powerful, so He should be able to get anything across to our stubborn minds that He wants to. Second of all, Xelios's question wasn't "Why doesn't God guide us?" His point was that God has the power to stop evil, so why doesn't He just stop it from happening?

He has the power to stop us, but He willingly choose to give us a free will. He limited His own power by choosing to do so. It is His choice. In the same way I can get a UZI and kill 30 people at school, if I want to, He can choose not to have any power over us (unless we willingly ask Him to do so). Why doesn't God guide us? He does. But most of us are way too young to understand.

An atheist is like a 2 or 3 moths old baby, while the average Christian is 3 or 4 years old compared to God. The average Christian will listen to god, but not necessarily understand what He is saying. They will also not obey Him always. The atheist won't even understand God at all. They won't even listen. God's Words for them would be like "hgolg lhbelv baelrghk". They simply cannot comprehend.

What does God do nowadays anyway? He has all the time in the world. He only has to overlook and maintain one measly planet. He can't even do that right! He performs sparadic miracles every once in a while, and then he lets everything else turn to shit during his down time. That's no way to run a planet. It seems to me he's been slacking lately.

Gos is not runing this planet...
Genesis 1:26
"26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
... WE are...

Exactly. If God spent half the effort he puts into his own ego and selfish tendencies into the bettering of our planet, we'd be in paradise.

Read what I wrote for Xelios...


Xelios,

I'm not asking why God doesn't tell us what's wrong and what's right, because he obviously has with the 10 commandments. God has the ability to keep his children from harm, something he could easily do. In spite of this, he chooses not to, and instead chooses to sit by idley while his children are beaten, raped, tortured, murdered etc.

He cannot interfere in our actions since He gave us free will. It would be like parents trying to control their children - they just can't. If you have more than one kid, you might have experienced them fighting against each other. No different here. He can't do anything about it since He chose to give us a free will.


wesmorris,

hrmph. what kind of asshole gives you a gift and then expects you to be all "ooooooooooooooooooooh, you're SO cool" all the time. don't you think that if that asshole gave you a gift and "he" was truly benevolent "he" wouldn't expect shit from you except for you to enjoy the gift? i'd think if "he" felt differently he'd let me know a little more directly than a butt-raper telling me all about what I'm spozed to be doing for his "friend" that gave me that cool gift.

That is probably misunderstood concepts you have from the Bible. I will give you an example. God told us to give some that you have to others. Why He did that? Does He want anything from us? Does He need anything from us? No! Our things are His, in the first place! He gave us the whole world! But anyways. When He tells us to give some of what we have He is trying to make us prosper. To be generous is like to plant seeds. You give money to someone, and when you need money, that person will give money to you. You can give Love to someone, and this person will give it back to you. Love is a cycle. It works by cheerfully giving and thankfully receiving. That's what He want for us.

Another one is when He asks us to worship Him. Another misconception is to say that He has vanity. Probably Solomon's mistake when he wrote Ecclesiastes. "Vanity! Vanity!!" ... Anyways... God asks us to worship Him and focus on Him for the simple reason that this gives us strengh and makes our Love pure. To worship Him is to worship Love. When you worship Love Itself and focus on Love, then you won't judge who you Love, you will simply Love everyone. This is how we Love everyone, by Loving Love first. Always remember that God is Love before you analize what is written in the Bible.

is that how religion is supposed to work?

No.


stray dog,
"...the kingdom of God is in your midst."

 

[matnay]

Truthseeker wrote:

He has the power to stop us, but He willingly choose to give us a free will. He limited His own power by choosing to do so. It is His choice.

But why doesn't God stop things like earthquakes from happening if He loves us so much? Why doesn't He eradicate disease? Why did He give our bodies such horrible capacity for physical and mental pain?

As for guiding us, since we have free will I agree that god can not control our will. But, you wrote:

An atheist is like a 2 or 3 moths old baby, while the average Christian is 3 or 4 years old compared to God. The average Christian will listen to god, but not necessarily understand what He is saying. They will also not obey Him always. The atheist won't even understand God at all. They won't even listen. God's Words for them would be like "hgolg lhbelv baelrghk". They simply cannot comprehend.

My questions are simple. Why doesn't God simply speak english(or other earthly language) to us?* And why doesn't He make his existense obvious if it is so vital to our prosperity?*

*and I mean 'directly', not through the Bible.

 

[wesmorris]

Truthseeker.

YOU are a horrifically presumptuous and somewhat socially retarded child. I appreciate the quest you think you're on and in a way I admire your doggish tenacity. You seem to have reasonable intellect, it's sad that you squander it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

matnay,

But why doesn't God stop things like earthquakes from happening if He loves us so much?

He does not control the weather. He created a system. It works by itself. Earthquakes and hurricanes happen to simply ajust the system. They are juts imbalances in the system that serve to correct what is wrong and balance it. That's the basic Law of God's creation: balance.

Why doesn't He eradicate disease?

Diseases are Satan's influences. When you are a Christian, you are able to stop them, since the knowledge of God being within you give Him the power to do t through you. He doesn't do it directly because that is also a part of the system, to create balance (eventhough if you ask, He will do it). For example, when a person dies because of a disease, it creates more space in the world. Without death, the world would be very crowded, what would be an imbalance. It sounds a little harsh, but when you think that we go to Heavens, it is a pretty good exchange...

Why did He give our bodies such horrible capacity for physical and mental pain?

Pain is to alarm us. Look to lepers, and you will find pain a blessing...

Why doesn't God simply speak english(or other earthly language) to us?

He does. He used to speak Portuguese with me, but now He speaks in English... And if I go back home, He starts speaking in Portuguese again...

Anyways...
He speaks our language. But try to explain gravity to a 2 or 3 years old baby and you will go nuts... The baby won't understand Him at all...!

And why doesn't He make his existense obvious if it is so vital to our prosperity?

He is not physical, so He cannot appear in front of us. However, when He acts through people...

 

[TruthSeeker]

wesmorris,

YOU are a horrifically presumptuous and somewhat socially retarded child. I appreciate the quest you think you're on and in a way I admire your doggish tenacity. You seem to have reasonable intellect, it's sad that you squander it.

How can I have reasonable intellect and still squander it? If I have a reasonable intellect, is it possible that I don't know how to use it? It is kinda like saying that a cook don't know how to cook...

 

[Xelios]

He has the power to stop us, but He willingly choose to give us a free will.

I'm not talking about stopping us from doing evil, I'm talking about preventing us from it. If he abolished evil we would no longer be able to choose it, but not because we don't have free will, it would be because it no longer exists. You can't choose something that doesn't exist. For example, I can't choose to drive an invisible car, but that doesn't mean my free will is in any way impaired.

An atheist is like a 2 or 3 moths old baby, while the average Christian is 3 or 4 years old compared to God. The average Christian will listen to god, but not necessarily understand what He is saying. They will also not obey Him always. The atheist won't even understand God at all. They won't even listen. God's Words for them would be like "hgolg lhbelv baelrghk". They simply cannot comprehend.

You should be a storyteller for small children truthseeker, I think you'd really excell in that profession.

He cannot interfere in our actions since He gave us free will. It would be like parents trying to control their children - they just can't.

No, they can't, but God is an all powerful being, he can do anything. So Truthseeker, are you telling me that if your child (assuming you have one) chooses to take a fork and stick in in an electrical socket while you are standing right there you would simply say "Well, he has free will, I can't interfere."? I know you would not, yet God does. What I am asking is why?

If you have more than one kid, you might have experienced them fighting against each other. No different here. He can't do anything about it since He chose to give us a free will.

Like I said above, if he simply eradicated evil we would not even think about choosing it, because it would not exist. Our free will is already limited, I cannot choose to travel to the Andromeda galaxy tomorrow, why would it be any different if we were unable to choose something that doesn't exist? Our free will would remain intact.

 

[matnay]

Truthseeker,

He does. He used to speak Portuguese with me, but now He speaks in English... And if I go back home, He starts speaking in Portuguese again...

That's cool. What does He sound like? Is his voice deep? Or does His voice coincidenly sound exactly like your own inner-voice?

You talked about balance being the basic law of God's creation. Could this be why He doesn't try too hard to keep most of humankind from going to hell? In other words, does God want hell's population to grow in order to create a counter-balance with heaven?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Xelios,

I'm not talking about stopping us from doing evil, I'm talking about preventing us from it. If he abolished evil we would no longer be able to choose it, but not because we don't have free will, it would be because it no longer exists. You can't choose something that doesn't exist. For example, I can't choose to drive an invisible car, but that doesn't mean my free will is in any way impaired.

Are you willing to give up evil? Is Osama Bin Laden to give up evil? When a child get something that s/he likes, does s/he give it up? Again, it is a matter of OUR free will...

You should be a storyteller for small children truthseeker, I think you'd really excell in that profession.

Is that a compliment?

No, they can't, but God is an all powerful being, he can do anything. So Truthseeker, are you telling me that if your child (assuming you have one) chooses to take a fork and stick in in an electrical socket while you are standing right there you would simply say "Well, he has free will, I can't interfere."? I know you would not, yet God does. What I am asking is why?

He tries to tell you not to do it. However, I think I've heard some stories of Him interfering. In either way, we are physical and He is not, and that is a very important variable in this equation.

Like I said above, if he simply eradicated evil we would not even think about choosing it, because it would not exist. Our free will is already limited, I cannot choose to travel to the Andromeda galaxy tomorrow, why would it be any different if we were unable to choose something that doesn't exist? Our free will would remain intact.

I answered it in the first quote...

 

[TruthSeeker]

matnay,

That's cool. What does He sound like? Is his voice deep? Or does His voice coincidenly sound exactly like your own inner-voice?

Never heard Him with my physical ear, so I can't tell you that...

You talked about balance being the basic law of God's creation. Could this be why He doesn't try too hard to keep most of humankind from going to hell? In other words, does God want hell's population to grow in order to create a counter-balance with heaven?

No. But the very existance of a Heaven calls for the existance of a hell. In the same way, light cannot exist without darkness. But Light is a substance, while darkness is the lack of it. In the same way, hell is the simple lack of Heaven, the lack of God's presence.

 

[matnay]

hell is the simple lack of Heaven, the lack of God's presence.

Oh well that doesn't seem too bad. I thought there was torture and suffering involved with hell. Maybe God's not such a bad guy afterall.

 

[TruthSeeker]

He is not bad at all... And I talk more about conscioussness in my new thread on the General Philosophy forum... "The Conscious Defines Time"...

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
wesmorris,


How can I have reasonable intellect and still squander it? If I have a reasonable intellect, is it possible that I don't know how to use it? It is kinda like saying that a cook don't know how to cook...

you are correct... I mean reasonable amount of intelligence... like, you seem like you could avoid being ignorant and misled if you chose to. I mispoke the first time.

Cris and Tiassa both have excellent points but instead of reckognizing that, you have to filter everything through the bible. if you could just filter something through YOU for a second, you might advance in thought.