God's morality

[fess]

If a child runs in front of a bus, and I'm in a position to pull her back and I don't, I'll be vilified and possibly attacked.

Yet, God does not act.

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Yet we don't prosecute the children of criminals.

God is depicted as being the source of good and morality. Should we change the way we think to be more in line with him?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

If a child runs in front of a bus, and I'm in a position to pull her back and I don't, I'll be vilified and possibly attacked.

Yet, God does not act.

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Yet we don't prosecute the children of criminals.

God is depicted as being the source of good and morality. Should we change the way we think to be more in line with him?

*************
M*W: That's exactly where the problem with humankind started--with a belief in some kind of creature with magical powers over us.

About the child running in front of the bus... I think it would be human nature to try to save the child from possible death. I don't think that has anything to do with a god. So, you are correct in your belief that this scenario didn't take an act of god.

You also make good sense with your comment about A&E and their progeny.

I'm glad you question god's morality. Repeated many times in the "good" book (riiiight!), that god was totally immoral to human beings. So, thinking along the lines that we think god would think would be futile. We are mere humans and can think for ourselves without the help of a god. Again, that's where the human race began to decline and quit thinking for ourselves and depending on a magical, invisible higher power.

 

[lightgigantic]

If a child runs in front of a bus, and I'm in a position to pull her back and I don't, I'll be vilified and possibly attacked.

Yet, God does not act.

the idea is that god has a greater scope for action - our scope for action does not extend before one's birth or after one's death ... and even in the interim period its quite minuscule too

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Yet we don't prosecute the children of criminals.

Anyone who "descends" to this material world is due punishment. There is an argument that arriving here is due to expressing some desire that needs rectification, much like "arriving" in a jail is due to expressing some desire that needs rectification.

God is depicted as being the source of good and morality. Should we change the way we think to be more in line with him?

if there were no distinctions between the actions and duties of god and the actions and duties of the living entity, there would be no effective distinction between the living entity and god (... which makes for a strange universe)

 

[one_raven]

A good father lets his children make mistakes and learn from them.
A good parents lets his children go when they have grown.
When Adam and Eve ate the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became aware of the consequences of their actions and able to make their own decisions.
A good father let them go.

 

[one_raven]

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Catholic Docrtine - not Biblical Truth.
There is quite the vast difference.

If you read the Tanakh, it does not have section titles such as "The Fall of Man" - those were Catholic additions.

 

[Leo Volont]

Well, your assumption here is that God is in every sense THERE as much as you are. You think this because you are defining God in terms of Greek Theology -- that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent. It is these Definitions that give Atheists such a good Run. In Fact even the Greeks had problems with these definitions... they did not do their Thinking at Universities but tended to annunciate all their Philosophies during drunken homosexual parties, when I supposed they could have exercised a bit more care had they been more sober and thoughtful. Anyway, such Theological Concepts as Omnipotence and Omnipresence were almost immediately answered with skepticism and pointed arguments to the contrary... but the boggering drunks really didn't care, did they?

More Modern and Thoughtful Theologies have God as Transcendent, that is, God is Above All, that while God may in certain circumstances arrive at Agents and Agency that do His Work in the World, it is in fact only Agency and that God Himself is not His Own Agent in the World, that there is a separation between God and the World.

If we believe that Greeks -- drunken party queer Greeks -- are the only ones capable of ever defining God, and that if their definition FAILS, then God would simply not exist, then God, well, by failure of the Drunken Fagoty Greek Definition, would no longer Exist. But if we Modify the Theological Definition in order to Fit the Reality, then we still have a God, but we must get used to some certain Facts of Life.

God is not of the World but Above the World. We need to fix a great many of our own problems. What Religious History teaches us is that through Prayer, Penance, Fasting and Sacrifice, certain Divine Agencies are given to the Saints -- Miracles are possible -- but in this Day and Age where there is little Prayer, little Sacrifice, and NOBODY fasts and does penance ( even Catholics since the Vatican II Counsel no longer act Religious) then there really does seem that there is NO GOD.

You get what you pay for. Nobody has paid for God. Not recently. But the History is there.

If a child runs in front of a bus, and I'm in a position to pull her back and I don't, I'll be vilified and possibly attacked.

Yet, God does not act.

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Yet we don't prosecute the children of criminals.

God is depicted as being the source of good and morality. Should we change the way we think to be more in line with him?

 

[laladopi]

its to be more in line with yourself, not god.

 

[laladopi]

because within yourself is god.
your words done do any justice.

 

[Leo Volont]

Well, God should be Great. But any God found within Human Beings must be relatively small... small enough to be completely ignored in most cases. Count the millions of Barbarians who have been able to completely tune out this Internal God, to completely ignore any Spiritual or Moral Inspiration.

Then we have the False Religions. Why is it that the Internal God is apparently completely helpless in correcting False Religions. The Religion of Paul, that is Coopted and Corrupted Christianity, that teaches the Justification of Evil... the Internal God has had 2000 Years, and if this Paulist False Religion is waning, it is only because Atheism is Growing, not because True Religion is gaining any ground.

Then, can an Internal God even be 'God'. The two Scientists that invented the Atomic Bomb, Einstein and Oppenheimer once had a chat. Einstein, to become more mainstream with the Public... oh he wanted so much to be popularly loved... came out with a Pro-God statement, saying that he believed God was EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE. Logically, this is meaningless. If something is Everything and Everywhere then really no distinctions apply to it... it is as much anything else as God. What Oppenheimer pointed out was that God needs to be Providential, that God has to have the Power to Act, and to Act for Good. If there is a God but if that God cannot act, or does not Act, or does not Act for Good, then it is effectively the same as there being No God at all. Oppenheimer was blaming Einstein for cynically manipulating the Ignorance of People, assuming that Einstein was smart enough to know these distinctions. Really Oppenheimer greatly overestimated Einstein whose mental talents were confined to a very narrow range. Really, he was the original Absent Minded Professor... known for leaving for the office forgetting to put on his pants.

Anyway, your Inner God needs to be able to pass Oppenheimer's Test. When has this Inner God ever done anything? Anything Good?

because within yourself is god.
your words done do any justice.

 

[fess]

Well, your assumption here is that God is in every sense THERE as much as you are. You think this because you are defining God in terms of Greek Theology -- that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent. It is these Definitions that give Atheists such a good Run. In Fact even the Greeks had problems with these definitions... they did not do their Thinking at Universities but tended to annunciate all their Philosophies during drunken homosexual parties, when I supposed they could have exercised a bit more care had they been more sober and thoughtful. Anyway, such Theological Concepts as Omnipotence and Omnipresence were almost immediately answered with skepticism and pointed arguments to the contrary... but the boggering drunks really didn't care, did they?

More Modern and Thoughtful Theologies have God as Transcendent, that is, God is Above All, that while God may in certain circumstances arrive at Agents and Agency that do His Work in the World, it is in fact only Agency and that God Himself is not His Own Agent in the World, that there is a separation between God and the World.

If we believe that Greeks -- drunken party queer Greeks -- are the only ones capable of ever defining God, and that if their definition FAILS, then God would simply not exist, then God, well, by failure of the Drunken Fagoty Greek Definition, would no longer Exist. But if we Modify the Theological Definition in order to Fit the Reality, then we still have a God, but we must get used to some certain Facts of Life.

God is not of the World but Above the World. We need to fix a great many of our own problems. What Religious History teaches us is that through Prayer, Penance, Fasting and Sacrifice, certain Divine Agencies are given to the Saints -- Miracles are possible -- but in this Day and Age where there is little Prayer, little Sacrifice, and NOBODY fasts and does penance ( even Catholics since the Vatican II Counsel no longer act Religious) then there really does seem that there is NO GOD.

You get what you pay for. Nobody has paid for God. Not recently. But the History is there.

Hm, I guess I won't see you in the Gay Pride Parade.

Nice God you have there. He is apparently capable of helping in time of need, but is not interested unless you beg, deprive yourself of food, and punish yourself in some way. I guess the fact that your child may have a horrible disease is not enough for him.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Gods have no morals.
1111

 

[swarm]

If a child runs in front of a bus, and I'm in a position to pull her back and I don't, I'll be vilified and possibly attacked.

Yet, God does not act.

When Adam & Eve broke the rules, God punished their descendents.

Yet we don't prosecute the children of criminals.

God is depicted as being the source of good and morality. Should we change the way we think to be more in line with him?

He also wiped out an entire planet except for a single boat. Ecocide on a planetary scale. Why?

Because he is EVIL! of course.

 

[swarm]

A good father lets his children make mistakes and learn from them.

But not fatal mistakes. Not even really stupid mistakes. He is there to provide guidence and help them make good choices and help them up when they fall.

A good parents lets his children go when they have grown.

No he is still there when they need him.

When Adam and Eve ate the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became aware of the consequences of their actions and able to make their own decisions. A good father let them go.

No it is written he feared them. Kept them from the tree of life so that the would die. Cursed them and their children; then cast them out to suffer and perish. Read your own damn book without the rose colored glasses for a change.

Your god is no good father. He is an abusive, genocidal psychopath.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You forgot insecure sadistic schoolyard bully.
1111

 

[one_raven]

But not fatal mistakes. Not even really stupid mistakes. He is there to provide guidence and help them make good choices and help them up when they fall.

Yes, guidance - not control.

No it is written he feared them. Kept them from the tree of life so that the would die. Cursed them and their children; then cast them out to suffer and perish. Read your own damn book without the rose colored glasses for a change.

That's your perspective - one of many.
Here's Mine

Your god is no good father. He is an abusive, genocidal psychopath.

Not my God - I am not Christian.

 

[swarm]

the idea is that god has a greater scope for action

So god is supposedly more moral because he kills you over and over and over and over...

Anyone who "descends" to this material world is due punishment.

You don't know that. You are just making crap up. For all you know this is the pinnacle, a reward beyond compare.

if there were no distinctions between the actions and duties of god and the actions and duties of the living entity

The actions of a living entity are real. The actions of your fantasy of god are not.

 

[swarm]

Not my God - I am not Christian.

Then why are you sullying yourself with their book and god?

 

[swarm]

...during drunken homosexual parties...but the boggering drunks -- drunken party queer Greeks -- the Drunken Fagoty Greek Definition... Penance, Fasting and Sacrifice... little Sacrifice, and NOBODY fasts and does penance

Dude you are such a gay masochist it isn't even funny. I bet those nasty greek drunken homosexual boggering queer fagoty parties get you sooo hard you just have to fast and sacrifice and do lots of penence, self flagelation to get all those drunken hard greek men out of your mind.

Got to be pure for god, but those naked drunk hard greek men are going down in your mind aren't they?

 

[Leo Volont]

Well, I suppose we are NOT talking of a Nice God... some fluff and insipid God.

We are speaking of a God that only responds to the most intense rushes of adrenaline. a God of absolute NEED. If it ISN'T REALLY IMPORTANT then why should God give a ... why should God CARE?

Intense Praying SIMULATES INTENSE SUFFERING. FASTING. SELF INDUCED PAIN. That all helps.

If you want God's Help.... well, how important is it to you? Important enough to SIMULATE the WORST SUFFERING? ... to TURN ON that Human to God Channel on our MINDS.

You want it to be simple.

Maybe it is NATURAL. Maybe it is BIOLOGICAL. Did you ever think of that?

Nice God you have there. He is apparently capable of helping in time of need, but is not interested unless you beg, deprive yourself of food, and punish yourself in some way. I guess the fact that your child may have a horrible disease is not enough for him.

 

[one_raven]

Then why are you sullying yourself with their book and god?

I can defend a concept without believing in it.
I also argue the case on the side of the Christians when people try to "debunk" their beliefs with obvious fallacies.