God's love ....a big dissapointment?

[Flores]

Flores maybe I do not understand your argument. Are you implying that God only loves those who are worthy of love and 'acts out' against those who are not? I mean if this is true then we must assume that the innocent are never innocent no matter the age, that the poor deserve their squalor, disease a punishment for some sin and the losers of war unworthy of this so called gods grace. If this is the case then we must also assume that God awards villians when they profit from their villany.

I don't quite mean it that way. I'm making the dualistic argument, meaning there are two sides to everything..Actually, it's two sides with every gradation inbetween. Love follows the same principle. For love to be defined, there must be hate and the whole chart of feelings in between. For example, god loves cleanliness, it's appart in the environment that is designed to be self cleansing..That must mean that god hates pollution and disorder to the clean environment.

It's not necessarily that god love those worthy of love and act out on those unworthy...God have designed a system that eternally ensure rewardness to those that adhere and respect the designed system parameters and puniches those that don't adhere to the system by rejecting them. It is almost the same like a body that rejects a donated organ..it's not that the body doesn't love the organ, it's merely that the organ doesn't belong in that specific body

 

[Quantum Quack]

May be God is a "Probability" nutter who likes looking down on all these variables he has created placing bets with him self on outcomes.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Because its absolves one of having to admit there is no god outside of our idea of god.

----------
M*W: Hello, Lucysnow! There is no god outside of humanity (call it perception or our idea of god), but God lives in all of creation and is manifested by the human race who co-creates with the Creator. Creation is the ONLY place where God is found, and not in certain buildings or religions or televangelists or Jesus alone, but in all creation. God is Us!

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Hello Medicine Woman,
If god is us then isn't it also in those whose behaviour we or society find abhorrent? And what about destruction isn't god there to? Or is it only in Creation? And if so then how can god reject anything (I am mostly refering to the argument made by Flores two posts up. Hi Flores.) ?

 

[Cyperium]

Quantum Quack, that post you wrote was really good (not the one where you said that God was placing bets...). We shouldn't just assume that what we think is best for us really are, and that nothing bad will happen as a consequence. Also there might be consequences that no one has ever thought about, God is above all.

why?
are you scared he will send you to hell if you dont?
btw why say Him,when gd is invisible?

First of all, my judgement comes from my actions. The bad things that I do to God, I do to myself. I send myself to hell - if that's where I'm going.

Why say Him? Because it's easier, it can also be because God is represented as the role of the father. May or may not be a indication of His sex.

God is love (amongst everything else that He is), we should love love shouldn't we?

how so?
supose a baby dies or is born cripled/disfigured or sick what is a lesson in that?
and if god controls all,
wouldnt that make him one sadistic sob?

I don't know the Answer to that, but I can give alternatives to show that there can be reasons. Some things are hard for us to understand, since understanding them requires understanding of so much else.

Everybody dies, there may be so that the baby only needed to live that long. Why it's born cripled? May be so that it is required for the person to deal with that kind of situation. Everybody is born for a reason, some need to deal with mental handicap, some with physical, some doesn't need to deal with any handicap but must experiance life for another reason.

apparently he does,see above!

What appears one way to you may appear another way for someone else.

tell that to the people tortured to death by some psycho bastard.

people would apreciate good things even w/out suffering!

It's too bad that there are psycho bastards. Tortured people can still believe in God, it can be harder though (when we've actually been through it), some that have had such experiances has demonstrated enormous faith.

Yes, people can appreciate good things without suffering, but would they feel like they deserve it? It doesn't need to be suffering, it can be that you do good things and get good things back. God can give you everything, but if you did nothing to achieve it then you would feel that it wasn't yours. Do you laugh without a joke? How do you feel if you do?

so all the people dying in Africa from hunger b/c it doesnt rain there is their own fault according to your logic,or maybe he is punishing them for not
being true christians,
remember god controls all according to your beliefs!!
what about those dying in earthquakes,floods acts of god so to speak,
are they all sinners?

Death must come to everyone, everyone dies in one way or another, the death of one person is as much tragedy as the death of thousands. In one hundred years 6 billion people will have died. Some of them would wish that they died in a earthquake.

Death will be taken away though, at the end of suffering, but it isn't time yet. God knows when that will happen and only He knows. He want to save as many as possible.

The suffering of a lifetime is compensated by everlasting life.

why do churches have lightning rods?
afraid of god?

No, they are afraid of lightning. God's law can be damaging for the uncatious, but it is needed.

theres no need for belief in gods imo,

There is a need. There is even a area in the brain for it.

your life is what you make it!

That is true! I agree 100%. Make it a good life and God won't hold that against you.

If you constantly look at the dark sides then you only see darkness.

 

[Quantum Quack]

A question has occured to me...ha...must be the millionth one today.

Why do we think God is obove an beyond the universe? Why do we think that God doesn't evolve just like the universe and us?

Why do we think that God is some static entity that doesn't grow and learn. Why do we think that God isn't everything we see and experience, including evolution.

The universe evolves doesn't it? Then why can't God also evolve just like we are?

Maybe God too is striving for perfection, maybe perfection is just as ellusive to the universe as it is to us.

Why do we think God is perfect when everything written about him suggests otherwise.

We see suffering and we are trying to elliminate suffering ( crippled babies) we are trying to evolve to a greater perfection. Why not allow God to be allowed to do the same. Why not allow God to love in the way he does with out conditions placed by us on him?

To me there is no doubt that the universe loves, sometimees I fail to understand this love but when I look up at the stars I feel it with out doubt. The universe is a very real thing with all it's tragedy and rawness, I can accept that reality is a hard master but love it does and I place no pre- conceptions or conditions on that love.

So God is not perfect, there is suffering and we are doing something about it as we too evolve, and what's wrong with that?

Put God on a pedistal as perfect and your going to be dissappointed. To me he is as real as the suffering and the joy I see and I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Quote:we are trying to evolve to a greater perfection.

I don't see any evidence of that.


Quote: Why not allow God to love in the way he does with out conditions placed by us on him?

Why when the religious say there are conditions placed on us?

Cyperium you're frightening.

 

[Flores]

Hello Medicine Woman,
If god is us then isn't it also in those whose behaviour we or society find abhorrent? And what about destruction isn't god there to? Or is it only in Creation? And if so then how can god reject anything (I am mostly refering to the argument made by Flores two posts up. Hi Flores.) ?

Hi Lucy,
God reject certain things that don't agree with the intent of creation and don't serve the good of the whole.. On a smaller scale, just like a body rejects a cancer tumor, a swallon toe rejects a splinter, a patient rejects a donor organ, ect...God rejects those souls that don't belong. It's a rejection by the definition of BEING. There is no room for deviants unless they can ammend to satisfy the system being.

When I say deviants, I don't mean hippies. On the contrary, I mean those deviating from their pure natures that they had when they were babies and acting out of negative external influences.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Hi Lucy,
When I say deviants, I don't mean hippies. On the contrary, I mean those deviating from their pure natures that they had when they were babies and acting out of negative external influences.

Hey lucy...

What floers is saying is true, because she is one of those who were born muslims and then got corrupted by the negative external influences.

And oh Floers, before you answer with your usual rotten insults, I need to inform you, that you are on IGNORE.

 

[Flores]

And oh Floers, before you answer with your usual rotten insults, I need to inform you, that you are on IGNORE.

Thank you, It's time for an official toast and celebration....now I can freely comment to everyone about your stupidity, yet you can't read my posts and respond to me, and please enforce your own words and don't read my posts nor comment on them.......Why are you reading my post above and saying that I'm right?

That's not a revelation you stupid moron...Your brain is automatically designed to ignore anything relevant. At least now, you'll leave me alone.

 

[Cyperium]

Cyperium you're frightening.

What was frightning to you? That we get a reward for our suffering? That doesn't mean that we should seek suffering or that we should make others suffer, we should try to avoid suffering. Though suffering will happen in one way or another anyway.

Otherwize you will have to earn it through rightful actions. It's your choice. The suffering may be easier to ride through if you believe that there will be a reward in the end.

Don't compare me to psychopaths, or whatever weird things you had in mind.

 

[Ellimist]

God is love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Ray Charles is God.

 

[Q25]

So God is not perfect, there is suffering and we are doing something about it as we too evolve, and what's wrong with that?

but,
the bible says god is perfect,
and all good and all mighty!
(thats why people worship him,no?)
so either bible is wrong,or god does not exist!

it takes a while but you'll realize its contradictions eventualy,
try here
http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/

 

[Cyperium]

but,
the bible says god is perfect,
and all good and all mighty!
(thats why people worship him,no?)
so either bible is wrong,or god does not exist!

it takes a while but you'll realize its contradictions eventualy,
try here
http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/

God is perfect, we doesn't have to be perfect just because God is, though we may become perfect in our own right. Or are you the perfect form of you?

You think that either the bible is wrong or God doesn't exist because either God is perfect or He wouldn't allow suffering?

Let me explain this to you the way I believe it is.

God is perfect, His ways are made the best that can be. For God nothing is impossible.

Humans isn't perfect, their ways are curvy and stoney. Though it would be impossible for a particular person to get to heaven, it isn't impossible to God - which is said somewhere in the bible talking about the rich.

Humans think logically, which means that we make a way that seem to fit with the other ways. God think truth, which means that the logical path to it is neverending with each argument neverendingly true (which means that each argument also has a neverending number of arguments supporting it and so on...). This would be if we would try to uncover the perfect truth. I believe that God doesn't need to invent each argument, He has the harmony to...well just be true.

Humans would need a bridge from false to truth, and that bridge would (as I understand it) represent Jesus, that died so that everyone could be saved.

So suffering and so on, might be needed, not for God but for us (or for both), because He wants us all to be saved, to be able to trust Him, to be able to believe in Him. We know what we see, but we have to believe in what we don't see. Believing is something that we have to learn, we have learnt knowledge (which to me is a kind of belief), now comes the hard part, to trust that feeling that there are someone above you, that leaves it's signature everywhere, but can't be seen, and the signature can only be seen by those who believe.

Of course everything I said here is just what I believe, but much of it (I can imagine) makes sence even to you. At least logically on it's own. And that is a indication as good as any.

 

[Jenyar]

Has anybody on this forum read the book "Disappointment with God" by Philip Yancey?

 

[dcexodusfalling]

Perhaps pain and suffering is here because otherwise we might not know what goodness is. We wouldnt have anything to differentiate the two. Pain helps us grow physically, psychologically and emotionally, possibly spiritually as well. And in response to the point that there are crippled children who are born, Jesus says that it is all for the glory of God. We can't understand it completely because we are incapable of doing so. As for me, Ill just trust in God and see where life takes me.

 

[Jenyar]

Perhaps pain and suffering is here because otherwise we might not know what goodness is. We wouldnt have anything to differentiate the two. Pain helps us grow physically, psychologically and emotionally, possibly spiritually as well. And in response to the point that there are crippled children who are born, Jesus says that it is all for the glory of God. We can't understand it completely because we are incapable of doing so. As for me, Ill just trust in God and see where life takes me.

All pain is unwanted - that doesn't mean all pain is bad. Suffering is part of life, whether we like it or agree with it or not - just that fact alone ought to make people think twice about the inevitability of death and the grace of God.