God's Eye

[MrMynomics]

It(Satan) is that Angel who was proud enough to believe himself God; brave enough to buy his independence at the price of eternal suffering and torture; beautiful enough to have adored himself in full divine light; strong enough to still reign in darkness amidst agony, and to have made himself a throne out of this inextinguishable pyre.

One of the most hidden secrets involves the so-called fall of Angels. Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviours and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God. Satan(or Lucifer) represents the centrifugal Energy of the Universe, this ever-living symbol of self-sacrifice for the intellectual independence of humanity.

 

[and2000x]

Indeed.

Jesus- A weakling who wouldn't even fight back as he was being dragged up to a hill to die on a cross. He taught man to surrender and be mindless. He hates nature and hates human instinct and behavior.

Satan-A metaphor for absolute rebellion and despotic power over self and others. A true hero who suffered for his cause against the master rather than suffer FOR the master (like Jesus).

Satan, Odin, Dionysus, Cthulhu, pick and choose, they are the same metaphor for the human impulse to destroy, create, conquer, and love.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by and2000x
----------
Jesus- A weakling who wouldn't even fight back as he was being dragged up to a hill to die on a cross. He taught man to surrender and be mindless. He hates nature and hates human instinct and behavior.
----------
(You've got Jesus confused with Paul. First, Jesus didn't die on a cross but of old age possibly in Franc. Secondly, the whole crucifixion/resurrection story was mytholisized hype created by Paul.)

 

[Redoubtable]

Originally posted by and2000x
Satan, Odin, Dionysus, Cthulhu, pick and choose, they are the same metaphor for the human impulse to destroy, create, conquer, and love.

Not exactly . . . these are vastly different entities with vastly different contexts to consider.

 

[Cris]

No you are all wrong.

Satan is God's brother and his equal and they work closely together. Satan's job is to tempt men and if a man gives in to temptation then he is clearly not worthy of heaven.

This was why Adam and Eve were ejected from Eden. I suspect Satan won that friendly bet with God.

Jesus was just God’s next attempt at showing man an example of how man should behave.

But Satan is a good guy.

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by Cris
...
Satan's job is to tempt men and if a man gives in to temptation then he is clearly not worthy of heaven.
...
But Satan is a good guy.

i like this joke, Cris.

 

[Cris]

Everneo,

i like this joke, Cris.

Joke? No Joke. Let’s look at the evidence.

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be?

Satan

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

God

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.

•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.

•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.

•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)

•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)

•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)

•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)

•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.

•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)

•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)

•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)

•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)

•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation).

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catering to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions!

God is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

Satan hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth!

Maybe, before criticizing Satan, Christians should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God.

Like any good propaganda machine, Christian authorities have made sure to limit the dissemination of information on the enemy (Satan) to what they want the public to know. For example, we are never told why Satan rebelled against God. We're never given his side of the story. Were Satan's reasons for rejecting God and attempting to overthrow him legitimate? From where I'm standing, they could certainly be considered valid if the authorities see fit to hide them from the general public.

http://www.daltonator.net/durandal/religion/satan.shtml

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Originally posted by and2000x
Indeed.

Jesus- A weakling who wouldn't even fight back as he was being dragged up to a hill to die on a cross. He taught man to surrender and be mindless. He hates nature and hates human instinct and behavior

Its true. Jesus really had a beef with the natural workings of the universe.
And he helped transform the human species into an army of sissy genetic fuck ups.
God damn I hate jesus.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jesus, the Fuck-Up

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
----------
Its true. Jesus really had a beef with the natural workings of the universe. And he helped transform the human species into an army of sissy genetic fuck ups. God damn I hate jesus.
----------
(Dr. Lou, I understand your feelings. (I feel your pain.) You know I'm not an Xian, but honestly, I don't think Jesus was as effective as you say during his stint on earth. It's true what you say, but the blame should be put on Saul/Paul for the "sissy genetic fuck-ups." Paul invented the mythology of Jesus. Jesus himself was just a flash in the pan.)

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by Cris
Joke? No Joke. Let’s look at the evidence.

Evidence? you are talking about biblical evidences? that is exactly what seems to be a joke. You, then and there, enjoy the so called fantasies (in your word).! anyway it is good for you.

Since you are into it, let us get into the relevant perspectives.

As a creator, God treats his creations as He feels right and good. Slaying and punishing should be seen in its entirety. When He punishes innocents for His own reasons, He would revive them to have the right justice at appropriate time which you seem to ignore conveniently. What right Satan has in the affairs of God and His creations.? Being an ex-angel of top most choir of the holy hosts he obviously had not realised his limits and the true glory of God due to his false pride. he never liked humanity receiving God's special attentions and screwed up the family of A&E injecting the knowledge of Evil through his voice and vice (pride).

Had satan been not active&adhered to by humans, God has no reason to kill the humans in the first place. crimes like murder et al are not God's wish ; they owe satan for their flourishing and you think satan is good guy. It is he who set up humanity as a target for all sort of grievances either caused by fellow humans or ordained by God. without him there is no evil.

 

[Cris]

Everneo,

For the record of course I hope you realize both characters are fictional.

As a creator, God treats his creations as He feels right and good.

Of course. And when I create something that doesn’t turn out right I have no problem discarding it, just like God.

Slaying and punishing should be seen in its entirety.

Right! So like when someone says they love you and promptly kills you then that’s looking at the big picture, right?

When He punishes innocents for His own reasons and He would revive them to have the right justice at appropriate time which you seem to ignore conveniently.

So he has to kill millions of innocents to get the real bad guys because, what, he simply can’t shoot straight? Just how does he judge the actions of a 1 day old baby at the right time?

What right Satan has in the affairs of God and His creations.?

You’re right. There are no rights for anyone in a tyrannical regime.

Being an ex-angel of top most choir of the holy hosts he obviously had not realized his limits and the true glory of God due to his false pride.

Having reached that high he is clearly very able. Perhaps he was the only one with the courage and integrity to speak out about the obvious tyranny and injustice he could see being dispensed by God. Like I said, Christianity only tells its side of the story, and of course being so corrupt it is unlikely to say anything truthful about the real nature of Satan.

he never liked humanity receiving God's special attentions and screwed up the family of A&E injecting the knowledge of Evil through his voice and vice (pride).

So now he is stupid, right? In God’s perfect environment one of the chief angels, becomes jealous? That really is puerile nonsense. I can see how Christianity appeals to the simple minded with suggestions like that.

Had satan been not active&adhered to by humans, God has no reason to kill the humans in the first place.

So when my children are approached by bad influences then I should simply give up on them and kill them, right? This is the approach taken by this alleged loving god.

crimes like murder et al are not God's wish ; they owe satan for their flourishing and you think satan is good guy.

As has been pointed out, Satan has never killed anyone. Satan gave man the freedom to choose for himself. But man was made in God’s image and God committed the first murder and set the example for man to follow. But you conveniently forget the billions of murders committed by God that are described in the bible. This far outweighs any crimes ever committed by man.

It is he who set up humanity as a target for all sort of grievances either caused by fellow humans or ordained by God.

No. All he did was to give man his freedom. Satan is the true savior of mankind. All God wanted was a bunch of mindless caged pets.

without him there is no evil.

Man was designed by God. Man’s ability to commit evil was designed by God. God made evil possible. If God didn’t want evil then he should not have made such a poor design. Had God not screwed up then evil would not exist.

Satan offered freedom, while God imposed ignorance and oppression. How much value do you put on freedom?

 

[everneo]

Cris,

For the record of course I hope you realize both characters are fictional.

I don't think they are so, atleast God is not fictional.

when I create something that doesn’t turn out right I have no problem discarding it, just like God.

Right! So like when someone says they love you and promptly kills you then that’s looking at the big picture, right?

So he has to kill millions of innocents to get the real bad guys because, what, he simply can’t shoot straight? Just how does he judge the actions of a 1 day old baby at the right time?

As fictional characters you have the right to choose one over the other or criticize God in any childish way until the climax of your fiction. I don't think God is a fictional character. He is as real as me and what i know, about His nature and ways, are much less.

Having reached that high he is clearly very able.

he did not have a career to climb high. he was created as such, as i understand.

Perhaps he was the only one with the courage and integrity to speak out about the obvious tyranny and injustice he could see being dispensed by God. Like I said, Christianity only tells its side of the story, and of course being so corrupt it is unlikely to say anything truthful about the real nature of Satan.

it is amusing to see that you know the real story of satan, the hero. that is because you already see God as a villain.

So now he is stupid, right? In God’s perfect environment one of the chief angels, becomes jealous? That really is puerile nonsense. I can see how Christianity appeals to the simple minded with suggestions like that.

Anyone other than God is vulnerable to vices. whoever stands steady deserves to be with God.

So when my children are approached by bad influences then I should simply give up on them and kill them, right? This is the approach taken by this alleged loving god.

You can't do that. You have no right to kill your children and have no power and means to resurrect your children.

Satan has never killed anyone.

like nukes don't kill people but the radiation and heat of explosion do.?!

Satan gave man the freedom to choose for himself.

Satan did not give freedom to man. he just showed the ways to misuse it. That is a wrong and mischievious prescription by satan to humanity.

But man was made in God’s image and God committed the first murder and set the example for man to follow. But you conveniently forget the billions of murders committed by God that are described in the bible. This far outweighs any crimes ever committed by man.

There is certainly difference between man and God, satan and God. because He is not just a fictional character to me and i don't know the true grace of God.

Satan is the true savior of mankind.

any idea to establish another church, for satan.?

All God wanted was a bunch of mindless caged pets.

You and me are not caged pets, still.

Man was designed by God. Man’s ability to commit evil was designed by God. God made evil possible. If God didn’t want evil then he should not have made such a poor design. Had God not screwed up then evil would not exist.

Man was designed not to commit evil also.

Satan offered freedom, while God imposed ignorance and oppression. How much value do you put on freedom?

that depends on what sort of freedom it is.

 

[Cris]

Everneo,

God is not fictional.

Without proof, and most reasonable people agree that there is no proof for God, all you have is a fictional concept.

From Webster: Fictional - something invented by the imagination.

As fictional characters you have the right to choose one over the other or criticize God in any childish way until the climax of your fiction.

My childish illustration serves to show the childishness of the biblical stories. You were trying to convince me that the death and suffering, caused directly by God, of millions of innocent people is somehow a good thing.

I don't think God is a fictional character. He is as real as me and what i know, about His nature and ways, are much less.

I understand, otherwise we would not be debating. But you really have nothing of substance on which to base your belief other than a very strong desire that it be true. It is just wishful thinking on your part.

he did not have a career to climb high. he was created as such, as i understand.

Fair enough and hence we should conclude that since God’s judgment is perfect then he would have been deserving of that high position. That he turned away from his duties implies, though, that God’s judgment is not perfect. Just another paradox for your myth.

it is amusing to see that you know the real story of satan, the hero. that is because you already see God as a villain.

I cannot see someone who does not exist as a villain. All I see is a complex and vastly contradictory fictional mythology that can be torn apart quite easily by even childlike observations. The idea of two gods battling each other is classic myth.

Anyone other than God is vulnerable to vices. whoever stands steady deserves to be with God.

But Satan was with God. So this was just another of God’s mistakes then?

You can't do that. You have no right to kill your children and have no power and means to resurrect your children.

But even if I could resurrect them they would have still suffered at the time of killing. I do not see any justification for killing by anyone, unless they are truly evil and unrecoverable. The bible stories show God killing arbitrarily large numbers of innocents with the resultant suffering. I do not see how that can be justified.

Satan has never killed anyone.

like nukes don't kill people but the radiation and heat of explosion do.?!

Your analogy doesn’t work, since those are the essential properties of a nuke. But I understand your desperation to find an answer. Try again. I am pretty sure there is no record in the bible of Satan directly causing the death of anyone, unlike God.

Satan did not give freedom to man. he just showed the ways to misuse it.

So who is worst, God for not allowing any freedom, or Satan for giving only a one-sided view.

There is certainly difference between man and God, satan and God. because He is not just a fictional character to me

Satan is part of the Christian myth. It looks like you have only bought into part of it.

and i don't know the true grace of God.

Sounds like you are still seeking understanding.

any idea to establish another church, for satan.?

Lol, no my sense of morality is far above both God or Satan.

You and me are not caged pets,

That’s right, because there is no God to cage us. We are perfectly free to do anything we wish, to survive or to die. It is entirely our choice.

Man was designed not to commit evil also.

Were that true and the design was good then we would not have committed evil and would have been able to resist any temptations. Either you are wrong, or God simply screwed up. Either way God would be of no consequent value.

that depends on what sort of freedom it is.

Why? If humanity has any real value then it should be able to determine its own morality and find its own way to survival. If it cannot do that then it does not deserve to survive. We should have and by all evidence appear to have total freedom to determine our own destinies. That we will make some terrible mistakes on the way is the price we must pay.

 

[everneo]

Cris,
You are sounding like a politician. You responded to my replies, which in turn reponses to your posts, but you forget your earlier posts. i will give a detailed reply in kind later.

 

[and2000x]

Satan is God's brother and his equal and they work closely together. Satan's job is to tempt men and if a man gives in to temptation then he is clearly not worthy of heaven.

Yes, this is true, esp. if you look at the Old Testament version of Satan. However, he was originally considered the 'devil' who was sent by god to turn man away so that God could torture people in hell.

Only during the New Testament and Dead Sea Scrolls did he develop into the great adversary figure.

 

[Xev]

evernoe:

I don't think they are so, atleast God is not fictional.

Thanks, needed to laugh.

any idea to establish another church, for satan.?

Good idea!

Kill the Muslims, kill the kikes
Sodomize Jesus fucking Christ!

 

[Cris]

And2000x,

Thanks. I knew I'd read that myth somewhere.

 

[Cris]

Everneo,

Cris,
You are sounding like a politician. You responded to my replies, which in turn reponses to your posts, but you forget your earlier posts.

If you find I’m not being consistent within the story then you are probably correct. It is after all just an evolving story.

My apologies but I can’t take the idea of gods and devils seriously any longer.

Christianity has so many internal inconsistencies and with thousands of sects and cults each inventing their own interpretations then I can only see Christianity as a rather unfortunate and sad joke. What was left of my Christian indoctrination some 30 years ago has certainly been thoroughly purged. It is probably time for me to move on to something more productive now.

 

[SnakeLord]

Hi, it's been a while, (i've been busy writing the athiests guide)

Anyway, much that i hate to jump in right in the middle of things, i just wanted to make some small points:

Everneo said: You can't do that. You have no right to kill your children and have no power and means to resurrect your children.

I'm sorry, but your god's opinion differs, in fact, he demands it:

Deut 21:18

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not listen to the voice either of his father or of his mother and, even when they punish him, still will not pay attention to them, his father and mother must take hold of him and bring him to the elders of the town at the gate of that place. To the elders of his town, they will say, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and will not listen to us; he is a wastrel and a drunkard.' All his fellow-citizens must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you."

Your god demands you to kill your child if he's continually bad. Personally i'm glad the majority of mankind has evolved beyond this.

What i would like to point out is this:

god didn't say "In 2000 years time you may completely disregard this command of mine."

So..... why doesn't anybody stone their bad kids anymore?

Basically you guys treat it all as some big pick and mix. Choose what you want to accept and completely disregard and ignore everything else. How can anyone in such a position complain about mass murderers? They are in essence doing exactly the same thing you are, just with a different commandment. You ignore whatever god commanded when it suits you, then blame others when they do the same.

Luckily medical care has evolved further than god.

I don't think they are so, atleast God is not fictional.

I don't think God is a fictional character. He is as real as me

All i can see is a world of mass confusion in your head. You contradicted yourself twice in two sentences. Firstly stating you "think" god is not fictional, then stating he "is not fictional". You really need to work some things out within yourself. A lot of people do not pick up on the subtleties of the written word. I notice it a lot, as an example:

"God is a fact, this is what i believe" <-- You'd be amazed how many times this is stated, and yet it's a complete contradiction. It is overwhelmingly obvious you guys are going through severe turmoil within your minds and wouldn't know the truth if it got up and jiggled it's bum in your face.

Cris said:So now he is stupid, right? In God’s perfect environment one of the chief angels, becomes jealous?

Then Everneo said:

Anyone other than God is vulnerable to vices. whoever stands steady deserves to be with God.

So.... your god is not vulnerable to vices such as jealousy? Strange...

Exodus 34:14 "Do not worship any other god, for the lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god." <--- stated by your god.

Obviously he is jealous, because he says he is. Thus he is as open to "vices" as everyone else. Shit man, you really wanna see what jealous beings can get upto- simply because they're jealous. Damn, maybe the punishment he gave to Adam and Eve was purely based on jealousy, (jealous of the fact the serpent had opened their eyes to knowledge). I mean seriously... look at the evidence:

god says: "Man has now become like one of us {?}"

He didn't say "Man has succumbed to the devil", "Man has become evil", or "Man has turned against us {?}".

The thing he felt like saying was that man was now like them {?}.

That's how a jealous person speaks.

 

[one_raven]

I wrote this a while back.
It is written from Satan's point of view.
I thought maybe the intention would be applicable in this thread.
It's called "Look at Yourself"

Look at Yourself

I stand before you today as a simple humble man.
Why must you hate me so?
I am not the root of all evil.
I did not kill your children. I have never forced a hand.
Why does your fear still grow?
I am not the enemy of people.

All I ask is for you to listen. Please hear these words of mine.
Then I'll let you decide
If you think I should be damned.
I've had this cross you gave me to bear. From the beginning of your time.
No matter how I've tried.
People never understand.

I live alone.
I cry alone.
My own shoulder catches my tears.
I am misunderstood.
I do have a heart.
That is broken by your fears.

I have but one role to play for you. I am scapegoat to all people.
"Listen to me. I know you know."
"The Devil made me do it."
You take a gun and shoot your wife, then have the gall to call me evil.
They hear your side, then let you go.
Then pray you'll make it through it.

It pains my heart. That I am to blame. For all evil on your earth.
I am simply an honest man.
As I said, a man like you.
I show you options. Let you choose. You must decide their worth.
I let you know where I stand.
And to my word I am always true.

I make a deal.
I keep my word.
That is more than I can say for Man.
Mortal bliss.
All you want.
I offer you all I can.

I have no power over free will of men. I give you what you desire.
I ask politely for your soul.
Then offer you happiness in return.
Your eyes are open when you shake my hand. I do not threaten you with fire.
Your Lord sets you an impossible goal.
And tells you, "Succeed or burn."

You can resist me. It is your right. You can ignore me all you wish.
I do not attempt to sway your faith.
It is your greed that brings you to me.
God created you with your own free will. But tells you on Friday you eat fish.
I do not attempt to control your race.
I will allow you to be free.

Keep me in mind.
Think of my heart.
The next time you berate me.
You may ignore me.
Follow your God.
But you have no right to hate me.

Sorry to interrupt.
Carry on.