Godless World

[duendy]

I think this country and civilization allows a great deal of intellectual and political freedom. You can say and do just about anything.

d__your 'freedom' is an illuuuusion! this is what i mean about learning about covert manipulations by the powers that be. you seem so naive, imagining they are out for HUMANS inerests. are they hell as like. what they WANt is to cling to their power, and to do this they must create peoples who NEEd that power and give it to them. so, for example the people they will produce and get money from are to be in a particular mindset. consumerist.....go read and study about Edward Bernays, the father of spin. THAt is what i mean!
all this we have 100 channels on our TV-freedom, is rubbish. it all has th same news, same ads, same old same old. any alternatives are crushed, and you are offered what you are made to IMAGINE is freedom. in comparison with other fasicist states it may seem relatively free, but it STILL isn't really free. not what i define as freedom anyhow. Are your young lads having to sign up to fught in awar over there btw, and made to feel like shit if they dont. i am just curious?

The only real limits are on things like drugs...

d__haha...'ONLY' already. only is a big word. a vast word. now, you admit there are no limits on the pharmaceutical drugs don't you. they are advertized on your TV, and radio, and in mags, etc etc, and pushed at you when you go to the doc and say you are not coping eetc etc. and kids have their drugs pushed on them if they cant manage schools......YET a woman and her partner are currently under prosecution and could face a large prison sentence. you know whay. for growing marijuana to HELP...HELP people with diseases that the ONLY known herb that helps them is marijuana. ....is THat freedom? that sounds to me more like fascism!

If you're saying that we can't see this "mind of nature" without going on an acid or mushroom trip, then I can't help but be highly skeptical...

Why are you sceptical. i would be interested what other ways you'd suggest. though i am not implying you always have to Trip in Nature to appreciate it.

 

[Brutus1964]

Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in God I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt. Fist of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day. People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people. Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today. Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve. Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent. People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.

 

[duendy]

well. take one or two sentences out like 'all round hedonism' etc and that overview sounds like it is actually IS now...!

 

[mis-t-highs]

Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in God

it's becuase you have that believe in god, you cant say that as it could not possibly be truthful.
therefore, your next statement is blinded by the same problem.

I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt. First of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day. People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .

complete and utter rubbish, if you had made that statement through the eyes of a clear thinker, then it would hold more truth.

There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people. Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today. Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve.

this is where your blind faith shows through.

Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent.

that is a very asinine statement, charity is not only done by the religious.

People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.

what! just like it is now then.

 

[Sarkus]

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better place...

As Karmashock stated - because it has never happened we can never know.

I would like to think that the world would be the same. But only because it makes me happy to think that - I have no evidence one way or the other.

Also, the fact that there are one or two "good" atheists in this world is some proof that people are capable of living life without religion, and still live a life that the religious would be proud of, with the exception of the belief in God.
So if you don't need to believe in God to live a "good" life - why should it make any difference to society if noone believes in God?
You don't need religion to come to the conclusion that you really shouldn't be killing your neighbour, for example - unless he steals your lawn-mower!!

...if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt.

But that's the thing about religions - they CAN'T be proven false beyond any doubt.

Plus, my understanding of religions is that they use all the known facts and STILL come up with an explanation as to how they are still able to practice their beliefs.
They have, or will have, a counter to every single argument against them.

 

[Silas]

People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.

It would appear in fact that the recent period during which nations have become at least a little more tolerant of others and a little less suspicious, coincides with the general loss of faith and growth of secularism.

People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .

In fact people would put more faith in the stock market and the monetary system than they currently enjoy! And your freedoms are being eroded right now in the name of Christianity. Your American freedoms were designed to include freedom from religion as well as of it.

 

[Karmashock]

religionist at the moment unfortuately do, but every tide will turn and common sense will prevail.

I'm counting on it

What's interesting to me is that you don't see how complex your opposition is... you think we're all stupid... which is just fantastic... it makes our work much much easier.

 

[spidergoat]

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...

Couldn't be any worse. Actually, nothing would change. People do what they want anyway, religion or not. Often we use religion to justify what we want to do after the fact.

The good thing, and the problematic thing about religion is that it allows people to build upon knowledge of the past, without having to reinvent the wheel. It is problematic, because it means we are saddled with the baggage of past cultures.

 

[mis-t-highs]

religionist at the moment unfortuately do, but every tide will turn and common sense will prevail.

I'm counting on it

I'm so glad you are, it gives me hope.

What's interesting to me, is that you don't see how complex your opposition is... you think we're all stupid... which is just fantastic... it makes our work much much easier.

I have no opposition, religion has done extremely badly from the begining, so it's about time it changed. As we both have already agreed, it will happen, but I fear not in our life times.

I dont think your stupid, I just think you let irrational external forces control your lives, making you irrational in turn therefore dangerous.( there's an old saying it's "hold your friends close, but your enemys even closer".( thats not to say your my enemy, it's a trust thing) if it makes your life easier, it make ours wiser, (a fool is more trust worthy than a stranger, as you can alway trust a fool to be a fool.)

 

[Karmashock]

Mis-t-highs,
Good good, you just keep doing what you're doing and we'll keep doing what we're doing.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Brutus1964: Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in God I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt.
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M*W: And where is your faith in humanity -- remember, the one your god created? This sure sounds like wishful thinking to me.
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Brutus1964: Fist of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day.
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M*W: Seeing as how 75% of the world's population don't believe in your god, that would leave only 25% (the church going christians) to break down as a society. It would only be those christians who would turn to long-awaited hedonism.
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Brutus1964: People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull.
*************
M*W: No, only 25% of the world's christian population would lose faith in everything including our monetary system (since churches would no longer be funded).
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Brutus1964: Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people.
*************
M*W: Marshall law would only be needed to round up the christians and put them in prison camps for being a threat to those left in society who didn't kill themselves and their families.
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Brutus1964: Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today.
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M*W: Muslims would have no problem accepting the destruction of christianity. They already know its false! In fact, it's the capitalist christians they've terrorized! Have you not been reading the headlines?
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Brutus1964: Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve.
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M*W: Obviously these are the people YOU hang around with. You must have a sado-masochistic personality with all this homocide and suicide you anticipate. You need help.
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Brutus1964: Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent.
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M*W: Yeah, and your po widdle churchipoo will go under. Too bad!
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Brutus1964: People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world.
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M*W: Hello! Excuse me! Where have you been the past 40 years?
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Brutus1964: It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.
*************
M*W: Thanks to the guys who brought us christianity, the world has had a very dangerous history since then. Seventy-five percent of the world's population will make it, even if the other 25% is doomed. The human race will not become extinct -- but you might.

 

[Karmashock]

You presume to know the mind of God? The supreme being? The entity that created the universe in a blink?

Regardless of what you think about the likelihood of that actually happening, you have to see that conceptually, you'd not be able to know dick about such an entity unless it wanted you to.

 

[mustafhakofi]

karma that thing you say you know, which resides in your head and is talking to you.
well duh, your talking to yourself.
it does'nt happen to everyone because some of us dont have halucinations, some of us dont believe in fairy tales.

 

[Yorda]

You presume to know the mind of God? The supreme being? The entity that created the universe in a blink?

Paul says in the Bible that it's only possible to know the mind of God if you have the mind of God.

karma that thing you say you know, which resides in your head and is talking to you.
well duh, your talking to yourself.

You know, the self is the same as "God".

 

[Karmashock]

If you're scientific you can't discard it... if you're not then you can.

This makes you no different then the religious... at least before science.