God versus ET

[Ivan Seeking]

I’m not arguing for or against belief in either one of these, but I have always found it interesting that belief in God seems to be more acceptable than belief in visiting ETs. Why is this? It takes a much greater leap of faith to accept the belief in God than it does aliens. Sure, visiting ETs seem to present the distance and speed of light problems, but that’s just a technology and physics argument. Maybe the speed of light is a genuine barrier, and maybe, given an extra million years or so of technological development, sufficiently advanced beings can manage a way around this with technology we can’t imagine. This is hardly the intellectual leap required to accept the qualities of omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, and everlasting! And while purely anecdotal, there is certainly far more evidence for visiting ETs, than for God.

How do people justify this logic; belief in God while claiming belief in visting ETs is silly? Which is really more likely?

 

[Syne]

Neither has presented any widely-acceptable proof, and where physics can provide highly probably limits for anything corporeal, any incorporeal is completely beyond its scope. Of course, there are those who would claim ETs to be incorporeal as well, such as angels or some such, which would place both equally outside of the domain of physics.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Neither has presented any widely-acceptable proof, and where physics can provide highly probably limits for anything corporeal, any incorporeal is completely beyond its scope. Of course, there are those who would claim ETs to be incorporeal as well, such as angels or some such, which would place both equally outside of the domain of physics.

Interesting. So you are suggesting that God is beyond science, whereas ET is not, so it is easier to dismiss the notion of ET given the limitations currently indicated by science.

Clearly this doesn't apply to creationist arguments that deny evolution.

 

[Adstar]

I’m not arguing for or against belief in either one of these, but I have always found it interesting that belief in God seems to be more acceptable than belief in visiting ETs. Why is this?

I think if you investigate it you may find that in the west more people believe in Aliens then believe in the God of Abraham.

It takes a much greater leap of faith to accept the belief in God than it does aliens. Sure, visiting ETs seem to present the distance and speed of light problems, but that’s just a technology and physics argument. Maybe the speed of light is a genuine barrier, and maybe, given an extra million years or so of technological development, sufficiently advanced beings can manage a way around this with technology we can’t imagine. This is hardly the intellectual leap required to accept the qualities of omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, and everlasting! And while purely anecdotal, there is certainly far more evidence for visiting ETs, than for God.

Yes but the evidance for God is of a different kind. It is about the Message of God that moves people to believe. with Aliens there is no real firm message (oh some claim that ET's are coming to the world to save us but supposedly they have been coming for near on 100 years by some reports, if tey where going to save us they would have interviened by now) So all we have is the video evidance and testimoneys of people who claim to have encounters.

How do people justify this logic; belief in God while claiming belief in visting ETs is silly? Which is really more likely?

I have had a personal moving experiance where God is concerned but not with Aliens. So more people have had an experiance with God that has moved them to belief, then with Aliens. Now i don't discount that Aliens may exist. I have heard other theories about these manifestations. So i have no firm position on them.

Wait and see.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Balerion]

I’m not arguing for or against belief in either one of these, but I have always found it interesting that belief in God seems to be more acceptable than belief in visiting ETs. Why is this? It takes a much greater leap of faith to accept the belief in God than it does aliens. Sure, visiting ETs seem to present the distance and speed of light problems, but that’s just a technology and physics argument. Maybe the speed of light is a genuine barrier, and maybe, given an extra million years or so of technological development, sufficiently advanced beings can manage a way around this with technology we can’t imagine. This is hardly the intellectual leap required to accept the qualities of omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, and everlasting! And while purely anecdotal, there is certainly far more evidence for visiting ETs, than for God.

How do people justify this logic; belief in God while claiming belief in visting ETs is silly? Which is really more likely?

Because the vast majority of people who believe in God were indoctrinated as children and don't know how to not believe. If people raised their children to believe in visiting aliens, then that's what they would believe.

There's a reason you can guess a person's religion with a great deal of accuracy with no prior knowledge except where they're from.

 

[Syne]

Clearly this doesn't apply to creationist arguments that deny evolution.

Clearly.

 

[wynn]

How do people justify this logic; belief in God while claiming belief in visting ETs is silly?

Probably by having a life and thus not caring what some angry, contempting busybody wants them to believe.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Probably by having a life and thus not caring what some angry, contempting busybody wants them to believe.

Could you elaborate?

Was that a shot at me? You seem a bit hostile.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have had a personal moving experiance where God is concerned but not with Aliens. So more people have had an experiance with God that has moved them to belief, then with Aliens.

Yes, the personal religious experience can be quite powerful. So you think it all comes down to what Christians often call the presense of the the spirit?

Now i don't discount that Aliens may exist. I have heard other theories about these manifestations. So i have no firm position on them.

A fair number of Christians that I've met, esp to include Seventh Day Adventists and evangelicals, believe the entire UFO and ET business is the work of satan. It is just a trick and fulfills the prophecy that in the end days, there will be signs in the sky.

 

[wynn]

It is typical for atheists to try to externalize things, to present matters of personal beliefs and values as a matter of

"Prove to me that what you believe makes sense, and then you may go on believing it. Otherwise, if I am not convinced, you must give it up. It is wrong always, everywhere, and for every one, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence. And I am the one to decide whether you are believing something on insufficient evidence or not."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is typical for atheists to try to externalize things, to present matters of personal beliefs and values as a matter of

"Prove to me that what you believe makes sense, and then you may go on believing it. Otherwise, if I am not convinced, you must give it up. It is wrong always, everywhere, and for every one, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence. And I am the one to decide whether you are believing something on insufficient evidence or not."

I’m not arguing for or against belief in either one of these...

I'm asking, not judging. The psychology of this has always interested me. I was once very religious and still don't deny that their could be a God. In fact the point is that belief in God or ET requires a leap of faith. So why is one more acceptable than another?

To put this into context, it is almost required that any Presidential candidate profess their belief in God. What would be the chances of getting elected if one professed belief in visiting ETs? And I'm not just talking about the Christian or religious vote, I would bet that most atheists would be just as biased in this. They can accept the religious beliefs, but not beliefs that are actually far more logical.

Recall that Dennis Kucinich was mocked just for saying that he saw a UFO. I don't think he even claimed it was ET, just something he couldn't identify.

 

[wynn]

The psychology of this has always interested me.

Why has it interested you? Can you say more?

In fact the point is that belief in God or ET requires a leap of faith.

Does it really? Or is this simply your projection?

So why is one more acceptable than another?

Gee, I wonder why. Perhaps the definitions of "God" and "ET" can give some clues?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Why has it interested you? Can you say more?

Yes, when I confronted my own religious beliefs, which I struggled with for many years, I found that there was a clear and unjustified bias in matters of faith, as I have described. Then I wondered why?

Does it really? Or is this simply your projection?

This is undeniably true. This is what religions teach. It is ALL about faith. Faith is a choice and is what enables salvation.

Gee, I wonder why. Perhaps the definitions of "God" and "ET" can give some clues?

Perhaps you can give some clues? That's why I'm asking.

 

[wynn]

Yes, when I confronted my own religious beliefs, which I struggled with for many years, I found that there was a clear and unjustified bias in matters of faith, as I have described. Then I wondered why?

Do you believe this -

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for every one, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence"

-?

This is undeniably true. This is what religions teach. It is ALL about faith. Faith is a choice and is what enables salvation.

Those are generalized beliefs about what religions teach.

But when we look into what religions actually teach, it's not like that anymore.

For example, in Christianity, several schisms occured, and they also had to do with the role of faith - whether faith is one's own doing or not, etc. And now there exist several Christian traditions that hold different views on the matter.
Surely you are faimilar with all this?

Perhaps you can give some clues? That's why I'm asking.

Then start out by what you understand by "God" and "ET".

 

[Arioch]

@wynn --

Do you believe this -

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for every one, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence"

I'm not sure, but I do accept the validity of this:

"It is no less unethical to not care whether your beliefs are correct so long as they make you happy than it is to not care where your money came from so long as you've got it."

Those are generalized beliefs about what religions teach.

But when we look into what religions actually teach, it's not like that anymore.

Irrelevant, religion is still about faith.

 

[wynn]

Irrelevant, religion is still about faith.

Says you.

:shrug:

 

[Arioch]

@wynn --

Says virtually every holy text ever written. You can argue with them if you like, but you'll find that it's a lot like arguing with yourself.

 

[wynn]

Provide quotes.

 

[Adstar]

Yes, the personal religious experience can be quite powerful. So you think it all comes down to what Christians often call the presense of the the spirit?

Well i would say the Working upon the seeker of the Holy Spirit. Let me add this. The original Work was on a moral level. at lest that is my perception. Then after i accepted the moral moving then came other non-moral insights/rewards. As if to say confirmation after belief and acceptance.

A fair number of Christians that I've met, esp to include Seventh Day Adventists and evangelicals, believe the entire UFO and ET business is the work of satan. It is just a trick and fulfills the prophecy that in the end days, there will be signs in the sky.

Yes i think i have heard all the different variations of that theme, I do spend more time on theist forums then athiest forums like this or should i say agressive combative atheist forums like this, be warned they can get very nasty in here.

I am still open minded towards what the UFO phenominum is so i am undecided at this time.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Adstar]

I'm asking, not judging. The psychology of this has always interested me. I was once very religious and still don't deny that their could be a God. In fact the point is that belief in God or ET requires a leap of faith. So why is one more acceptable than another?

Because while the existence of Aliens who visit earth may mean there are beings out there who are far more advanced then us. They are still beings like us, so while they may be far more powerful than us we are not absolutely powerless we may be able to resist or negotiate with them.

But God is far more frightening because you have Someone who is infinity more powerful with absolute control over you. This takes away a persons sence of their control over their destiny, they cannot defeat or negotiate with such a Being.

So Aliens are just another more advanced version of us.

God is in another league he can never be equaled. The very existence of God moves us into the bracket of being an inferior being. The differance between God and us is greater then the difference between us and a cockroach. People don't want to believe God exists because doing so dramatically lowers them in the pecking order of existence.

Men want to be masters of their own destiny.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days