God the Planner

[PsychoticEpisode]

When I think of God the planner I can't help but imagine some type of entity sitting down at His architect's easel, paper, compass, rulers and pencils strewn about as He adds a line here or erases one there. A calculation or two, some crumpled up paper in a waste basket, beer bottles in various stages of emptiness and cigarette butts lining a nearby ashtray. The end result was this universe we live in but even that pales to the length and breadth of God's planning abilities. Who but God could plan something so intricate as the following......

4.5 billion years or 6000 years ago, either way still amazing, God put in motion one of the most elaborate plans to kill a man ever concocted. So complex that it dwarfs anything anyone bent on murder could ever devise. It is so complicated that it would take me hours to list every thing He did to make the series of events unfold in such a perfect manner. So I'll just cut to the chase and deliver the goods, you can fill the rest in at your leisure.

Monday, in a most incredible series of circumstances, a man was killed when hit by a plane in South Carolina while he was jogging on the beach. What's so great about that you ask. Well just think, at least 6000 years ago God planned for it to happen. From Robert becoming a traveling salesman, to getting up early to jog the sand, the experimental plane flying overhead, the prop falling off, oil spraying the windshield blocking the pilot's view, an attempted landing on the beach, the plane gliding to the exact spot where Mr. Jones happened to be running, Ipod in ear oblivious to what's behind him and then having the plane hit the married father of two in the head killing him instantly.

Much more had to happen for this plan to succeed but you get the gist of what I'm saying. God amazingly pulled it off. To think, at the very beginning of time or even before that if possible, the plans were already in motion for Mr. Jones to get killed in the most bizarre way. Is this proof of God? No man could possibly manage anything so complex as this, could they? I mean.... it must be God. No, it has to be God.

 

[Photizo]

No man could possibly manage anything so complex as this...

You've only mentioned one life...How many other lives? How many other processes involving both the macro and micro? "all things were created by Him...and in Him (Jesus Christ) all things hold together."--Including you.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

You've only mentioned one life...How many other lives? How many other processes involving both the macro and micro? "all things were created by Him...and in Him (Jesus Christ) all things hold together."--Including you.

Could it be that the enormity and complexity of such an undertaking as organizing a man's death is the reason people give God credit for planning it. One would also have to believe(or know) that it is a plan in the first place, no? So how do people recognize God's plan when they sense it?

What we think is a random event cannot be so if God has deemed it to happen, even if an eternity ago. I mean God must plan all events, including every despicable act ever perpetrated upon a person. If you agree that God planned the death mentioned in the OP then you must not ever be upset with Him about anything that happens that is unpleasant or distasteful.

Did you ever think that if God exists as the master planner then all He wants is for people to accept whatever He dishes out. There is no use complaining, we are a pawn in His game, accept it and hope you are lucky. Oh wait, there wouldn't be any luck either.

 

[lightgigantic]

When I think of God the planner I can't help but imagine some type of entity sitting down at His architect's easel, paper, compass, rulers and pencils strewn about as He adds a line here or erases one there.

A calculation or two, some crumpled up paper in a waste basket, beer bottles in various stages of emptiness and cigarette butts lining a nearby ashtray. The end result was this universe we live in but even that pales to the length and breadth of God's planning abilities. Who but God could plan something so intricate as the following......

Its not the first time you've made a post based on your imagining god be susceptible to the same mundane fallibilities as ourself

4.5 billion years or 6000 years ago, either way still amazing, God put in motion one of the most elaborate plans to kill a man ever concocted. So complex that it dwarfs anything anyone bent on murder could ever devise. It is so complicated that it would take me hours to list every thing He did to make the series of events unfold in such a perfect manner. So I'll just cut to the chase and deliver the goods, you can fill the rest in at your leisure.

Monday, in a most incredible series of circumstances, a man was killed when hit by a plane in South Carolina while he was jogging on the beach. What's so great about that you ask. Well just think, at least 6000 years ago God planned for it to happen. From Robert becoming a traveling salesman, to getting up early to jog the sand, the experimental plane flying overhead, the prop falling off, oil spraying the windshield blocking the pilot's view, an attempted landing on the beach, the plane gliding to the exact spot where Mr. Jones happened to be running, Ipod in ear oblivious to what's behind him and then having the plane hit the married father of two in the head killing him instantly.


Much more had to happen for this plan to succeed but you get the gist of what I'm saying. God amazingly pulled it off. To think, at the very beginning of time or even before that if possible, the plans were already in motion for Mr. Jones to get killed in the most bizarre way. Is this proof of God? No man could possibly manage anything so complex as this, could they? I mean.... it must be God. No, it has to be God.

I guess you didn't factor omnipresence into your calculations

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Its not the first time you've made a post based on your imagining god be susceptible to the same mundane fallibilities as ourself

And not the first time you've reminded me. So why can't God be susceptible as you say? Like being desirous of pleasure for instance?

 

[Michael]

I wonder how God gets all the sperm sorted out? I mean, think of the trillions of little spermys all rushing head long for that egg. Only ONE made LG .... all part of The Plan

 

[scifes]

that guy's body was developing a virus that would turn the whole human race into cannibal zombies...

thanks god for saving us all.

ok, too far away? let's consider two (out of the millions) of the possible futures he could've had;
- he might have lived, his wife cheat on him, he gets broke, his son falls into drugs, kill somebody and get's executed. his daughter turns into a whore who dies slowly afterwards with AIDS.
20 years later after that jog, he wishes he never was born, and commits suicide.

-he goes out running, dies an instant death, that event changes the chain of happenings so that all his family lives a happy life.

i don't know this, you don't know this.

god, if he exists, and planned this, knows that.

yet you, who doesn't know that, or any other thing for all that matters, are talking as if you do..

now do you see how the person who accuses theists of being psychics is now running around talking as if HE knows everything?
seating god on the bench and wearing a wig and examining "all evidence" then banging his hammer and annouces "you are a murderer"?

i mean :wtf:
are you for real?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I wonder how God gets all the sperm sorted out? I mean, think of the trillions of little spermys all rushing head long for that egg. Only ONE made LG .... all part of The Plan

So many potential humans swimming around, little living sacks of genetic matter wriggling about, yet the plan was for only one of them to crack the egg. You take what you get and God gets what He wants. Oh there's that and a absolute myriad of other things that have to fall into place, right down to the last piece of infinitely small construction material. All that and a universe to run simultaneously.

At least He doesn't need to worry about His plan failing. Everything up to the present including me is a success.

scifes
-he goes out running, dies an instant death, that event changes the chain of happenings so that all his family lives a happy life.

I mean
are you for real?

For that first line......Great Plan. Doesn't really matter what anyone thinks, you have to accept it. If someone is lobbing grenades at you and you're defenseless then so be it. How you react doesn't mean anything to God. So why don't we all just get along in peaceful coexistence?

As for the second.....I'm part of The Plan aren't I?

 

[lightgigantic]

I wonder how God gets all the sperm sorted out? I mean, think of the trillions of little spermys all rushing head long for that egg. Only ONE made LG .... all part of The Plan

sure
kind of baffling for as long as you don't factor in omnipresence

 

[lightgigantic]

And not the first time you've reminded me. So why can't God be susceptible as you say? Like being desirous of pleasure for instance?

Its not clear why you equate desiring pleasure with fallibility

 

[wynn]

Its not clear why you equate desiring pleasure with fallibility

Because he has impersonalist notions?

No person, no pleasure, no problem.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Its not clear why you equate desiring pleasure with fallibility

If God the planner is infallible then what else can we say as to what pleases Him. On one hand there's love and on the other is hate. We see examples of what each emotion is capable of every day and we should be excused if we don't quite understand how peaceful loving coexistence and all out hate war pleases the Great Planner.

This thread is about a supposed God plan, so are we just dumb enough to believe everything's okay and God has it all under control? Bad stuff will eventually come to an end and we will forever be left with good stuff at some point, I guess. If this is The Plan, then it has to be going along on schedule since God designed it, at least that is the position anyone who believes such a plan exists must take. How convenient....I think theism is very well equipped at accepting the worse shit imaginable and turning it into a positive God issue. There's no other way to explain a God who's loving yet is capable of injecting incredible evil.

How much longer will this go on? God only knows. Sorry, but it boggles my mind to think that both good and evil, complete opposites, are part of a loving God's plan.

This is the best an omniscient God can do? No fucking way if we are to be considered important enough to Him to benefit from it. Time to admit that no such plan exists or ever existed. This has gone on long enough yet people still believe this is all God's plan and as a result they commit the heinous act of passing it on to the next generation.

I used heinous because the plan would include indoctrination, the intrusion of another person's mind by other's already intruded upon, and it would fit into all the other evil & negative good in The Plan. But this is the plan I guess. What if the plan is for us to ignore The Plan....ah, wouldn't matter, it'd still be The Plan.

For theists who believe The Plan exists, how do you justify believing in it?

 

[scifes]

For that first line......Great Plan. Doesn't really matter what anyone thinks, you have to accept it. If someone is lobbing grenades at you and you're defenseless then so be it. How you react doesn't mean anything to God. So why don't we all just get along in peaceful coexistence?

uh, what?

As for the second.....I'm part of The Plan aren't I?

yeah well the plan consists of total abomination too..

 

[lightgigantic]

If God the planner is infallible then what else can we say as to what pleases Him. On one hand there's love and on the other is hate. We see examples of what each emotion is capable of every day and we should be excused if we don't quite understand how peaceful loving coexistence and all out hate war pleases the Great Planner.

If the instances of all out hate wars are relegated to something like a virtual reality environment (ie a realm where the eternal living entity is encased in the illusion of temporal existence as a means to better air their inconsequential issues), its not clear how its either unsuccessful planning or unpleasing to some greater goal.

This thread is about a supposed God plan, so are we just dumb enough to believe everything's okay and God has it all under control?

as opposed to what?
Being dumb enough to think that we can do a better job at managing the universe?

Bad stuff will eventually come to an end and we will forever be left with good stuff at some point, I guess. If this is The Plan, then it has to be going along on schedule since God designed it, at least that is the position anyone who believes such a plan exists must take. How convenient....I think theism is very well equipped at accepting the worse shit imaginable and turning it into a positive God issue. There's no other way to explain a God who's loving yet is capable of injecting incredible evil.

because your field of view doesn't extend beyond the temporal (ie the realm for the exclusive expression of desire ranging from the inconsequential to the petty), it appear incredibly evil.

Kind of like taking the penal system as the holistic environment (divorced from the greater society) for gauging worth and value.

How much longer will this go on?

for as long as as an individual's recalcitrance persists. Both the living entity and the material world are eternal phenomena (since both are contingent potencies of god ... kind of like smoke and heat are contingent potencies of fire)

God only knows. Sorry, but it boggles my mind to think that both good and evil, complete opposites, are part of a loving God's plan.

that's because you address absolute goodness and evil in terms of the temporal world and its values. Kind of like a person may be boggled to see jail as progressive or offering any sort of beneficial service since they haven't even begun to to factor in the needs, interests and concerns of the greater society such institutions operate in.

This is the best an omniscient God can do? No fucking way if we are to be considered important enough to Him to benefit from it.

Sure its not the best ... but according to the best that we can manage to do in terms of honing our desire, its all we have on offer I'm afraid

Time to admit that no such plan exists or ever existed. This has gone on long enough yet people still believe this is all God's plan and as a result they commit the heinous act of passing it on to the next generation.

On the contrary, for the various points explained above, it should be clear that the only reason you don't see the plan is because you're not entertaining a broader perspective

I used heinous because the plan would include indoctrination, the intrusion of another person's mind by other's already intruded upon, and it would fit into all the other evil & negative good in The Plan. But this is the plan I guess. What if the plan is for us to ignore The Plan....ah, wouldn't matter, it'd still be The Plan.

I guess there is a benefit of subscribing to a fickle attitude of responsibility for one's senses and actions cultured by an adamant atheistic viewpoint for a hundred human lifetimes ... namely coming to the conclusion that there is no value in such a viewpoint
:shrug:

For theists who believe The Plan exists, how do you justify believing in it?

Sometimes it is said that the first lesson of spiritual life is to understand that one is not the body. IOW the whole business of ascribing some sort of eternal value to something that is necessarily short lived and temporary is also necessarily absurd

 

[lightgigantic]

Because he has impersonalist notions?

No person, no pleasure, no problem.

which is also remarkably close to the atheistic values of "no input" (from god) ... which leaves whose (remarkable) person, pleasures (and problems) to take the limelight?

(IOW there's an element of envy driving such things)

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

All the shitty stuff in The Plan, why is it there? How does a paedophile raping a 4 year old figure into it?

 

[Photizo]

All the shitty stuff in The Plan, why is it there? How does a paedophile raping a 4 year old figure into it?

How is God dying for the paedophile not shitty stuff in The Plan? Why is He there?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

How is God dying for the paedophile not shitty stuff in The Plan? Why is He there?

Who? The paedophile? The plan includes the raping of a 4 year old in order to have God die for the rapist?
or
Why is God there? Well it seems the plan is for Him to die right after the paedophile rapes the 4 year old.

God: There's too much child rape going on, I'll have to die to teach the pervs a lesson.

 

[Photizo]

...I'll have to die to teach the pervs a lesson.

Not "have to". Want to. And yes, to teach 'the pervs' a lesson.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Not "have to". Want to. And yes, to teach 'the pervs' a lesson.

God wants to die? The reason is irrelevant but strange nonetheless. This is startling new information about God.

I could assemble an entire universe of warriors, scientists and intelligencia and not come close to killing God, yet it can be done by raping 4 year olds. Give me an army of paedophiles and say goodbye to God.

Can't I just get away from all this? Do I have to play along like this is normal?