God is Love!

E

Ekimklaw

Believer in God
Registered Senior Member
God is love?

You better believe it. This is your wake-up call. The Judeo/Christian Bible makes it plain. Anti-theists start with the premise that the Christian God is some vindictive, evil entity. Well, the God of the Judeo/Christian Bible is clearly not. He is a force of good. Some anti-theists mix in secular mythology (Greek, Roman, Nordic), and Eastern gods (like Shiva, Allah) with Christainity. Please don't mistake the benevolent Judeo/Christian God for the malevolent gods that man in his wisdom (?) has created. Do a little research!

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved." -- Ephesians 2:1-5

anti-theism's motto:
"WE REJECT WHAT WE REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND"

-Mike
 
The Christian God is not love. No being who would sentance someone to hell is love. Or merciful.

'What's that Tyler? You don't believe in me of off pure faith when I don't prove myself to humanity? Well then! If you don't spend your life worshipping me I will sentance you to the worst thing imaginable for all eternity!'

Yeah, real loving.

I hope you never have kids. No parent who thinks it's loving to severly punish a human being for disobeying them is safe with children.



Any being who would punish all men for the mistake of a few...
Any being who would set it down that all women should obey men (Ephesians 5:22)...
Any being who would be okay with the killing of children (I Samuel 15:3)...
Any being who would command death to anyone who is not of his faith (Deuteronomy 13)...

Well, you get the idea.
 
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Originally posted by Ekimklaw

Some anti-theists mix in secular mythology (Greek, Roman, Nordic), and Eastern gods (like Shiva, Allah) with Christainity.
Click to expand...
I thought Allah was the same god as the christians use. The christian god seems to be Middle-Eastern to me by the way, so how does it differ from Allah geographically (since you pointed out such a difference)?
 
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Tyler wrote:
The Christian God is not love. No being who would sentance someone to hell is love. Or merciful.
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If you lovingly told your 14 year old kid: "Don't try to cross the freeway on foot! You could get hit by a car." and then the kid tried to cross the freeway on foot, and got hit by a car and killed, would it make sense for someone to say that YOU murdered your son? And are therefore evil? God tells us not to sin or else the outcome will be terrible. But we go right on sinning. You don't see the logic here? You send yourself to hell by rejecting God. There is one elevator to the top (so to speak), you're either on it or not. Your choice.

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Tyler wrote:
'What's that Tyler? You don't believe in me of off pure faith when I don't prove myself to humanity? Well then! If you don't spend your life worshipping me I will sentance you to the worst thing imaginable for all eternity!'
------------------------------------------------------------

God came to earth in the form of Jesus to "prove" he existed and to provide a way for us all to be saved. He came to Earth! Walked among us, talked, ate, drank, preached, did miracles, and you still reject him. Fact is NOTHING could convince you because you are an ANTI-theist. That is your religion.

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Tyler wrote:
I hope you never have kids.
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Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant to the question of whether God exists or not. Isn't it?

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Tyler wrote:
No parent who thinks it's loving to severly punish a human being for disobeying them....
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If your son was like Jeffrey Dahmer, would you want him to stand trial for his crimes? Well here's a news flash... rejecting God carries stiff penalties too. "The wages of sin is death." whether we like it or not.

Your pal,

-Mike
 
Re: Re: God is Love!

Originally posted by Adam

I thought Allah was the same god as the christians use. The christian god seems to be Middle-Eastern to me by the way, so how does it differ from Allah geographically (since you pointed out such a difference)?
Click to expand...

Well, technically... you could say the Judeo/Christian God is "Eastern" or more specifically "middle-eastern", but you of course knew that I was drawing a destinction between the Judeo/Christian view of God vis a vis OTHER views of God. Geographically speaking? "The great Geographical-Theological debate"? It's more cultural than geographical.

As for Allah being the same God as the Christian God... some will claim this, but I reject it on solid grounds which I do not choose to persue here (that's another post).

Your pal,

-Mike
 
"If you lovingly told your 14 year old kid: "Don't try to cross the freeway on foot! You could get hit by a car." and then the kid tried to cross the freeway on foot, and got hit by a car and killed, would it make sense for someone to say that YOU murdered your son? And are therefore evil? God tells us not to sin or else the outcome will be terrible. But we go right on sinning. You don't see the logic here? You send yourself to hell by rejecting God. There is one elevator to the top (so to speak), you're either on it or not. Your choice"

If you told your kid that crossing the freeway on foot would kill him and he said 'why? how?' would you push him onto the road? This is a far more accurate anallogy. Your situation depicts god as someone who says 'well, sorry bud, nothing I can do. I have no power but to let you go to hell.' Which is plain wrong.


"God came to earth in the form of Jesus to "prove" he existed and to provide a way for us all to be saved. He came to Earth! Walked among us, talked, ate, drank, preached, did miracles, and you still reject him. Fact is NOTHING could convince you because you are an ANTI-theist. That is your religion"

Can he do it again? Why has god stopped making miracles? He use to save people and smite people all over the place. All of a sudden he decided to stop showing his head and saving human life.

And thank you kindly 'pal' for telling me who I am. The only word to describe you is not theist, but asshole.


"If your son was like Jeffrey Dahmer, would you want him to stand trial for his crimes? Well here's a news flash... rejecting God carries stiff penalties too. "The wages of sin is death." whether we like it or not."

You're right. Rejecting god or not doing what he says carries the strictest of horrors. If you had the power to send someone to eternal hell and you told your kid to make his bed one morning and he didn't make his bed, would you send him to hell?
 
EKIMKLAW, I can perform miracles. I'm not lying here. I can do things that would make the eyes of any atheist flash with wonder.

However, if I were to claim to be God because of this, you'd laugh it all off and say "Hah! You lie, Jesus was God, He walked among us 2,000 years ago!"

Well, if Jesus were to exist nowadays and I had a friend that saw him, or even a friend of a friend of a grandparent's cousin, then perhaps I'd be a lot more likely to believe all that crap.

Ekimklaw, if God does exist, God is an abusive parent (if in fact He is our father) and essentially what he does to me is the equivalent of giving icewater enemas to your children. I shit blood. If my parent is capable of setting my destiny or healing me or that shit, then WHY IS IT that the 3 or 4 times that I've actually declared myself a Christian and fully accepted God into my life that nothing changed? I wasn't expecting full recovery or anything, I was just expecting guidance. Some people say that you have conversations with God. Well, that never happened to me. If God does exist, then he most certainly is a cruel creature that I would like to torture a million times over if I saw him.

Saying that the suffering of humanity isn't God's fault is ridiculous-- he sets our destinies, he controls them, or at least he can change them.

Even so, sending people to hell to suffer for eternity is JUST FUCKING CRUEL.

And likening that to warning a child about getting run over by a car-- that's not accurate. More like this:

------------------------------
Stan tells his son Mitch not to walk across 1st Street, it's dangerous. When Mitch disobeys him, Stan takes his car and runs Mitch over with it.
------------------------------
 
Hey GB-GIL Trans-global,

Thanks for the level headed and intellectual response. It's refreshing.

I sense you are a person who is seeking the truth whatever it may be. That's cool.

I must respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points here.

#1. Jesus came at the perfect time in history. Because of the natural fanning out of human migration coupled with Roman colonialism, it was a sure thing that Christianity would spread worldwide rapidly. He doesn't need to appear in the modern day. Believers spread the word and those who choose to believe, believe and those who don't, don't. When he returns, it won't be to say "See, I told you I exist." but to collect all those who believe.

#2. People who expect to "feel" different at conversion are often disappointed. But as you know our feelings often betray us. Many people report feeling different upon conversion. I really felt good once I gave my heart to God. A feeling akin to relief.

#3. Ice-water enemas, huh? Ouch! God is most certainly NOT an abusive parent. Most anti-theists attribute the horrible acts of Satan to God. Satan is the evil one. Attributing evil actions to God, the one who can rescue us from evil, is like blaming a boat for someone drowning.

#4. "If God does exist, then he most certainly is a cruel creature that I would like to torture a million times over if I saw him." Hmmm... that is pretty strong there. Respectfully... when you do see him, you will have rapidly changed your opinion. I guarantee it.

#5. Your analogy is great. I love the way you worded it. However, I'm afraid it is not how things really are. We have free will. There is Heaven and there is Hell. To get to Heaven we must do what God wants us to do. Plain and simple. Heaven is the abode of God. We can all go to Heaven. God has told us how (through belief in Jesus Christ). It is up to us to accept or reject it. Unlike angels, God demands faith of humans.

It all boils down to faith. If you believe it, great. If you don't that's your business.

Thanks for the good reply.

-Mike
 
Hey GB-GIL Trans-global,

Thanks for the level headed and intellectual response. It's refreshing.

I sense you are a person who is seeking the truth whatever it may be. That's cool.

I must respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points here.

#1. Jesus came at the perfect time in history. Because of the natural fanning out of human migration coupled with Roman colonialism, it was a sure thing that Christianity would spread worldwide rapidly. He doesn't need to appear in the modern day. Believers spread the word and those who choose to believe, believe and those who don't, don't. When he returns, it won't be to say "See, I told you I exist." but to collect all those who believe.

So I suppose the second coming should happen right now?


#2. People who expect to "feel" different at conversion are often disappointed. But as you know our feelings often betray us. Many people report feeling different upon conversion. I really felt good once I gave my heart to God. A feeling akin to relief.

I didn't expect to "feel" different, however I did expect to be able to find God inside myself. However God was still not there, or at least not as I could tell. I prayed hundreds of times, I opened my mind and heart, but nothing happened. Kids still beat me up at school, my life was still horrible, and I couldn't find the "holy ghost" within myself. Now I will say that I certainly didn't really expect God to help me with bullies, but my point is that even during my hard times when I accepted God He didn't help me even spiritually or emotionally. In fact, if he does exist he emotionally and spiritually abused me.

#3. Ice-water enemas, huh? Ouch! God is most certainly NOT an abusive parent. Most anti-theists attribute the horrible acts of Satan to God. Satan is the evil one. Attributing evil actions to God, the one who can rescue us from evil, is like blaming a boat for someone drowning.

But if God can't control Satan, God isn't all-powerful and thus your arguements for Christian theism are all nullified!

#4. "If God does exist, then he most certainly is a cruel creature that I would like to torture a million times over if I saw him." Hmmm... that is pretty strong there. Respectfully... when you do see him, you will have rapidly changed your opinion. I guarantee it.

Actually, no matter how amazingly loving He may seem when I do see Him, which I highly doubt will happen, I will rip Him a new asshole, I will anal rape Him, I will literally bite off His prick, chopping out the testicles first, I will chop off His fingers and toes, and then His hands and feet, and then His arms and legs, and then I will wind His intestines around Him, after which I will stick His prick up His new asshole and chop His head off with a dull knife.

#5. Your analogy is great. I love the way you worded it. However, I'm afraid it is not how things really are. We have free will. There is Heaven and there is Hell. To get to Heaven we must do what God wants us to do. Plain and simple. Heaven is the abode of God. We can all go to Heaven. God has told us how (through belief in Jesus Christ). It is up to us to accept or reject it. Unlike angels, God demands faith of humans.

Ah, but you see you are just reinforcing what I said.

I did say that Stan warns his son Mitch of the dangers of 1st Street, yet Stan disobeys. Actually, I think it would be better to put it this way:

------------------------
Right after Mitch's birth, Stan flees the state and tells others to tell Stan that 1st street is dangerous and never to cross it, and that it is his own father's word. Mitch decides to cross the street, and then Stan comes up and runs him over with his Chevy Tahoe.
------------------------
 
No doubt 2000 years from now some crackpot religious people will be telling people how wonderful Harry Potter was and that the Harry Potter series clearly illustrates for all that we should worship Harry Potter for He truncated the evil rule of he-who-must-not-be-named, AKA Voldemort. They will say, "Since the text is so old, it MUST be true!" and "Since the things it says are so good, it MUST be true!"

But then again you'll probably find some st00pid arguement that you think somehow puts your belief that Christ is Lord above the belief of Muslims that Muhammad is the last and greatest prophet of God.
 
God is Love

Here are some responses to GB-GIL Trans-global:

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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
I didn't expect to "feel" different, however I did expect to be able to find God inside myself. However God was still not there, or at least not as I could tell. I prayed hundreds of times, I opened my mind and heart, but nothing happened.
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Anyone who claims to accept Jesus into their heart and then refuses to study the Bible is mixed up at best. Acceptance is just the beginning of a long intellectual and emotional process of growth. Look at it like this. When you were born, did you immediately take up a briefcase and head to work? No. You had a lot of growing to do. A lot of learning. Instead of growing and learning you sat around waiting for the sparks to fly and the aurora of angels to settle around your neck. Doesn't work like that. Never has. Never will.

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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
But if God can't control Satan, God isn't all-powerful and thus your arguements for Christian theism are all nullified!
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Let me ask this. Does God control you? No. Why? Because you have a free will. So does Satan. He has chosen to do what he is doing. He will be punished just like all who make the wrong choices. Just because people go rogue and choose to be naughty does not mean God is powerless. It means we have right and wrong choices to make and there are rewards and punishments depending on which one we choose.

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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
Actually, no matter how amazingly loving He may seem when I do see Him, which I highly doubt will happen, I will rip Him a new asshole, I will anal rape Him, I will literally bite off His prick, chopping out the testicles first, I will chop off His fingers and toes, and then His hands and feet, and then His arms and legs, and then I will wind His intestines around Him, after which I will stick His prick up His new asshole and chop His head off with a dull knife.
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I'm sure you'll get huzzahs from the anti-theists for your childish tirade here, but as for me I just feel a strong sense of pity for you.

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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
No doubt 2000 years from now some crackpot religious people will be telling people how wonderful Harry Potter was...
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Comparing "Harry Potter" to the Bible is a clear indication that you have no regard for scripture, and are merely the type of person who gets his kicks attempting to aggravate Christians.

Oooh I know... why don't you say a bunch of ugly things about Jesus. That will certainly shock the Christians so much they'll scurry out of their churches burning their Bibles and renouncing the living God. How pathetic.

I guess I was wrong about you being a person seeking the truth.

Your pal,

-Mike
 
Few bones to pick with you. I'll get down to reading and discudding the whole schmeer here. It is interesting, but...

You better believe it. This is your wake-up call.

I respect your religion (you're christian, right?), it's great, but er...this is not the kind of statement you might start out with. You're starting out by stressing the superiority of your religion above all others, which is quite polarizing.

Or if your initial purpose is to proselytize, then...never mind. This thread could suffer then. Another typical, cliched theist versus everyone else battle.

The Judeo/Christian Bible makes it plain.

Makes what plain? the superiority of your religion? This statement says nothing.

Anti-theists start with the premise that the Christian God is some vindictive, evil entity.

Um, well....what do you mean by anti theists? Atheists, agnostics, and members of other religions don't think of Christian God as some evil entity, they just don't believe in him. They believe in something else. And in the case of atheists, they (we) do not think of your god as an evil being. We don't believe he exists, that is all.

Well, the God of the Judeo/Christian Bible is clearly not. He is a force of good.

Well, yes. He is a force of good to mankind...correction. Force of good that helps only J/Christians and harms everyone else. He seems to hate people with other viewpoints and has this hobby of planning to throw them all into a burning lake or torture them.

Some anti-theists mix in secular mythology (Greek, Roman, Nordic), and Eastern gods (like Shiva, Allah) with Christainity.

?? Please explain.

Please don't mistake the benevolent Judeo/Christian God for the malevolent gods that man in his wisdom (?) has created. Do a little research!

Wha? Now how come your god is the force of good, and every other god (or goddess) is evil and malevolent? Would research would indeed show that? I would very much like to see the reasoning and research behind that strong statement.


Ekimlaw, the thing is, I respect your religion but I do not respect these proselytizing efforts here. I would like to stay atheist, and you can stay with your religion.
 
Don't mind Ekimklaw, Zero.
I have concluded that he is a religiously obsessed troll.

(you know what a forum troll is, right)
 
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. -- Ephesians 2:1-5

This is purely a religious text, and it provides no backing for your arguments. At least when you are arguing with people who do not believe in the bible. If you are arguing with people who believe in the bible, then you will no doubt find a whole bunch of people who agree with you.

anti-theism's motto:
"WE REJECT WHAT WE REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND"

Anti theism...hmm. Anti theists as in "we hate christianity", yes that motto is accurate. Atheists? That is a very dangerous statement to be arbitrarily giving us in one fell sentence, Ekimlaw.

Ekimlaw, I'd like to hear your reasoning behind this thread and its purpose.

Avatar, cmon. Just because someone is acting weird does not mean he is a religiously obsessed troll. We atheists gotta have compassion...:D no just kidding. Everyone needs it.
 
that is the intention of the trolls.
they want you to start a fight with them
and besides, you can discuss with others on the same topic.

but I respect everyones rights (your's also) to talk freely and with those who they want.

btw, I first also was debating like mad with these creatures, but later found out that that is only feeding them and that there is no use discussing anything with them. I think our older members will agree.

but do as you like.
whatever, really:)
 
Re: God is Love


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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
I didn't expect to "feel" different, however I did expect to be able to find God inside myself. However God was still not there, or at least not as I could tell. I prayed hundreds of times, I opened my mind and heart, but nothing happened.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone who claims to accept Jesus into their heart and then refuses to study the Bible is mixed up at best. Acceptance is just the beginning of a long intellectual and emotional process of growth. Look at it like this. When you were born, did you immediately take up a briefcase and head to work? No. You had a lot of growing to do. A lot of learning. Instead of growing and learning you sat around waiting for the sparks to fly and the aurora of angels to settle around your neck. Doesn't work like that. Never has. Never will.


I don't find it surprising that, as a threat to the reputation of Christians and Christianity as a whole, you assume because of my results that I did not study scripture before expecting results. What a l00z3r.


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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
But if God can't control Satan, God isn't all-powerful and thus your arguements for Christian theism are all nullified!
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Let me ask this. Does God control you? No. Why? Because you have a free will. So does Satan. He has chosen to do what he is doing. He will be punished just like all who make the wrong choices. Just because people go rogue and choose to be naughty does not mean God is powerless. It means we have right and wrong choices to make and there are rewards and punishments depending on which one we choose.


But if God really did love us, then he'd most obviously use his power to stop evil in its tracks. I don't want free will over safety.


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GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
Actually, no matter how amazingly loving He may seem when I do see Him, which I highly doubt will happen, I will rip Him a new asshole, I will anal rape Him, I will literally bite off His prick, chopping out the testicles first, I will chop off His fingers and toes, and then His hands and feet, and then His arms and legs, and then I will wind His intestines around Him, after which I will stick His prick up His new asshole and chop His head off with a dull knife.
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I'm sure you'll get huzzahs from the anti-theists for your childish tirade here, but as for me I just feel a strong sense of pity for you.


Yet again you prove an insult to your whole religion-- I was actually being serious here, and I plan to do this if I do encounter God (if he is in fact real)

I don't find that childish-- you mean if you say you'll do it, it's childish but if you do it (Vikings and others did similar things), is it childish? I really do wish to do this to God, in its entirety.


------------------------------------------------------------
GB-GIL Trans-global wrote:
No doubt 2000 years from now some crackpot religious people will be telling people how wonderful Harry Potter was...
------------------------------------------------------------

Comparing "Harry Potter" to the Bible is a clear indication that you have no regard for scripture, and are merely the type of person who gets his kicks attempting to aggravate Christians.


Actually, I've seen a number of churches that offer sunday school lessons in which Harry Potter is used as a "manifestation of Jesus in modern literature", as one can see Harry is willing to sacrifice himself for others (yet some anti-Potter-because-he-is-Satanic activists say that this is in fact bad, which would essentially make Jesus part of the occult)


Oooh I know... why don't you say a bunch of ugly things about Jesus. That will certainly shock the Christians so much they'll scurry out of their churches burning their Bibles and renouncing the living God. How pathetic.


You're one strange, twisted, little feller. You assume that just because of what I've said here, I think things far beyond the obvious or even the subtle things you can tell from anything I've ever posted here.

I declare you officially a TROLL (hands certificate that reads as follows:

ÐYS AWARD CERTYFYFE ÐÆT EKIMKLAW HÆÞ ROUCHE A NEW LEVYL OF DYSRESPECYT HERE AT SCIFORUMS.COM ON ÐYS DAY ÐE SECOND OF JULY TWO ÞOUSYND TWO, ÐHE LEVYL OF "TROLL".

and a person who feels the need to constantly post messages stating why THEIR religion MUST be right.

I guess I was wrong about you being a person seeking the truth.

I did seek the truth, and I found it. Atheism. XD However, as an Atheist, unlike yourself I accept the possibility of truths other than my own godless truth. However you may discount this as many a Theist already has because since my truth isn't the true truth, me conceeding that perhaps it isn't really the truth means much less than if you were to do the same...

Your pal,

-Mike

Gee bud, I hope you go to fucking hell, best friend! :)

You're sure sending me mixed messages, fucking bitch. I love you with all my heart, asshole :)
 
Christian god is love and yet he tortured and destroyed Jobs life:rolleyes: speaking of morals:rolleyes:

In the Book of Job, one of the finest works of ancient literature extant, God and Satan are engaged in an obviously amiable dialog about the nature of man. Satan is claiming that if enough calamity befell a believer, he would lose his faith in God. God believes the opposite. To settle the dispute, they arbitrarily select Job, a good and honest man who loves God. With God's specific permission, Satan sets about destroying Job. The important factor here is that Satan had to have God's specific permission each separate time before the numerous temptings and tormentings of Job, and again, that Satan was indeed a respected and welcome member of the Heavenly Court serving God as prosecutor or adversary against man. The story does go on to relate that all was eventually made right with Job, the innocent victim of this divine debate, but even so it does not speak very well of God to have allowed a good and faithful servant to have been subjected to such horrible torment for so many years simply to resolve a philosophical debate between him and his agent Satan. In any case, a reasonable person reading this story would have to conclude that Satan cannot tempt or otherwise do harm to humans without God's specific permission in each individual case. (actually this is the place where I don't agree with the writer - about that each individual case) And please note, if Satan was in Heaven serving God during the lifetime of Job, he could not have been the serpent in the Garden of Eden during the lifetime of Adam and Eve.
Click to expand...
taken from http://www.home.earthlink.net/~robwir/devbio.html
 
Is it just me, or does Ekimlaw seem to throw out some random proselytizing threads and then forget them/cop out on them??

Is it just me????:confused:
 
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