Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
God is a crutch for the weak minded
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
That question of mine was not addressed to you, but your response is interesting. You can see how most people would read the portion I bolded above as indicating you feel superior to your children around this issue. And given the scope of the comparison you are making, perhaps in general. They are living in their trite little world and you are not.
I am no fan of the larger organized religions. You like Q, it seems to me, see the Abrahamic religions as RELIGION and further as theism.
consider the possibility that your near universal psychoanalysis is based on faulty assumptions and hubris.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
General observation:
Here we have Q and Medicine Woman arguing from an atheist position.
I cannot see any reasonable person saying that their atheism is
merely
a lack of belief.
It seems to constitute a set of beliefs
1) about how people come to belief in God
2) about the psychology of believers in general
3) about the existence of God
4) about their own ability to determine these things (despite certain epistemological problems)
5) about the effectiveness of using very conservative Christianity as the determiner of theists and theism in general.
I don't know why, when discussions of atheism being a belief come up, they don't add in their two cents and say
Well, my atheism is a set of beliefs not merely a lack of belief.
I don't know why other atheist can not at least admit that this muddies the water of discussions about atheism as a belief and that, perhaps, for practical purposes, it is not so silly to view atheists as believers.
Theism is, generally, not merely a belief in a God and nothing else. It tends to have complicated trappings. It seems to me that atheism in many cases is a belief there is no god and also has the trappings of associated beliefs. It is a belief system.
With, as Q points out, exceptions. There are always exceptions.
Here we have Q and Medicine Woman arguing from an atheist position.
I cannot see any reasonable person saying that their atheism is
merely
a lack of belief.
It seems to constitute a set of beliefs
1) about how people come to belief in God
2) about the psychology of believers in general
3) about the existence of God
4) about their own ability to determine these things (despite certain epistemological problems)
5) about the effectiveness of using very conservative Christianity as the determiner of theists and theism in general.
I don't know why, when discussions of atheism being a belief come up, they don't add in their two cents and say
Well, my atheism is a set of beliefs not merely a lack of belief.
I don't know why other atheist can not at least admit that this muddies the water of discussions about atheism as a belief and that, perhaps, for practical purposes, it is not so silly to view atheists as believers.
Theism is, generally, not merely a belief in a God and nothing else. It tends to have complicated trappings. It seems to me that atheism in many cases is a belief there is no god and also has the trappings of associated beliefs. It is a belief system.
With, as Q points out, exceptions. There are always exceptions.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
I understand the definition. I am speaking about reality.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
If I told you that I have an apple tree in my back yard that produces purple fruit all year round. Would you believe it ?
It's irrelevant. I'm not interested in tackling the very small percentage of people who are the exceptions. I'm more interested in putting a stop to the indoctrination machine that abuses millions of children worldwide.
You are free to pursue those exceptions. Be my guest.
If religion is a crutch that actualy helps people through life then is that not a good thing?. Theists and Atheists alike all go through struggles trials and tribulations in the course of a life-time, everybody gets help from one source or another be it family, friends, escapism, meditation, spending spree's, endulging in pleasures the list is endless, Why should god not be able to be somebodies crutch if they need him.
peace.
peace.
Atheism is the term coined to demonstrate the opposition to a belief in the supernatural, which theists deem to be the default position of reality.
I've always maintained that the default position is a universe devoid of the supernatural and that the claims of theists are the issues.
In that respect, it is the questioning of theists claims which you are referring to as a set of atheist beliefs. Nonsense.
That's fine. As long as those beliefs are not extended to society, no problem. But, they ARE extended to society, BIG problem.
In most places of the world you are not forced to believe in any religion and can choose to air your views and beliefs. Are you asking for religious people to be banned from expressing there beliefs?, or are you saying you don't want religion to be taught as a whole?, or religious rules should not be imposed onto people?.
peace.
I don't think you understand. Society today IS forced to accept the beliefs of theists, those beliefs infiltrating many aspects of society and affecting the people living there, depending on where you live, of course. In the ME, it's Islam, in the US, it's Christianity.
I could care less if theists want to express their beliefs, as long as they keep it to themselves.
No, "religious rules" should not be imposed on people. That is exactly the point.
Religion can be taught, just like we teach about Zeus, Apollo, Mithra and all the other myriad of myths and superstitions.
And from having practiced Roman Catholicism, you conclude that "God is a crutch for the weak minded" and exted this to everyone who believes in God?
Do "hasty generalization" and "jumping to conclusions" mean something to you?
I don't think religious rules should be imposed according to holy books, I don't believe in the morals of any of the holy books they are all flawed.
Here in London/England no set religion is imposed we all share the same city/country, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Sikhs, Hindus, Daoists. Scientologists It works pretty well here theres no religious wars or conflict between the sects. I didn't realise America was not a free country with freedom of speech and choice of lifestyle.
what religious laws do you have to live by?.
peace.
We are not immortal? Are we our bodies?
I'm glad you understand that.
What about the Church of England?
Really? Are you sure about there being no conflict?
They may not be "laws" but certainly the list of pervasive 'beliefs' into society is huge, from tax-exempt churches and temples to forcing sharia law in our legal systems.
Whether atheism is a belief or not really doesn't matter. I believe I don't believe there's a God, call it whatever you want. Other than what man has written in biblical text there is none nor has there ever been any proof of God's existence. I don't how much clearer evidence has to be for me to make a rational decision about God.
If you believe in anything you must have faith in it. Right away that should tell you that perhaps it is a mistake. I have stated several times that I count myself as an atheist, having made the most rational decision available to me. However I cannot totally dismiss the probability that a god may exist. Therefore it would be wrong for me to have 100% faith in my atheism. Rarely if ever have I heard a believer say that they are open to the fact God may not exist.
Someone earlier on suggested that religion basically owes itself to indoctrination. Without it, religion dies. What better times are there to push religion on someone as when they are kids or to some extent when suffering from some depression or misfortune. I agree that it is a form of child abuse and a violation of a basic human right, the right to make a mature decision as an adult.
If you believe in anything you must have faith in it. Right away that should tell you that perhaps it is a mistake. I have stated several times that I count myself as an atheist, having made the most rational decision available to me. However I cannot totally dismiss the probability that a god may exist. Therefore it would be wrong for me to have 100% faith in my atheism. Rarely if ever have I heard a believer say that they are open to the fact God may not exist.
Someone earlier on suggested that religion basically owes itself to indoctrination. Without it, religion dies. What better times are there to push religion on someone as when they are kids or to some extent when suffering from some depression or misfortune. I agree that it is a form of child abuse and a violation of a basic human right, the right to make a mature decision as an adult.
*************
M*W: Quite the opposite. Atheists don't "grasp at straws" to perpetuate their non-belief. It's an inner-knowing, an understanding, that the belief in deities is illogical and essentially harmful to the psyche. Religions and their beliefs are also harmful to individuals and societies. IT's like running-in-place. They go through the motions, but they don't learn anything new and, basically, nothing changes.
Please feel free to show us how religions have bettered mankind and the world.