Actually, Xelios (and MM), the writers of the Constitution were mostly freemasons.
god in the pledge of allegiance
- Thread starter yumyum
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Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
Learn to use the quote button, you spaz.
{borrowed from http://www.atheists.org/al/secmem.html}
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA --– Larry Darby, Alabama State Director for American Atheists, Inc., today announced final plans for a Secular Memorial and Tribute to Atheists in Foxholes to be held Wednesday, September 11, 2002, on the front steps to the Capitol beginning about 8:45 a.m.
Last Sept. 11 Islamic militants launched the ultimate “faith-based initiative” and attacked targets in Washington, DC and New York City. Government officials used this tragedy as an excuse to violate the separation between government and religion. Religious belief is now promoted as a badge of patriotism. Millions of Americans professing no religion have been insulted, marginalized and excluded.
Alabama Atheists will honor the victims of this tragedy and salute the many Atheist heroes and heroines who have served and continue to serve in the U. S. armed forces wherever called, including Afghanistan.
The Christian myth that there are no “Atheists in foxholes” will be dispelled as Atheist veterans will be featured during this event. Speakers include:
George Whatley, M.D., Ret., Birmingham, U. S. Navy, 1944-1946.
Carol Moore, Shelby County, Women’s Army Corps, 1973-1974.
Blair Scott, Mobile, U. S. Navy, 1990-1998.
Sgt. Kathleen Johnson, U. S. Army, currently stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana, will deliver the keynote address. Sgt. Johnson entered the U. S. Army at Fort McClellan, Alabama in 1985 and in 1997 founded the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, an official affiliate of American Atheists.
Darby was advised this date by the governor’s office that the State Memorial Service will be at the Avenue of Flags or south side of the Capitol beginning at 7:45 a.m., ending by 8:30 a.m.
The Secular Memorial will commence at about 8:45 a.m. or a reasonable time after the completion of the State’s (and Alabama National Guard’s) event.
For more information contact Darby at 334-270-8223 or ldarby@atheists.org.
In Birmingham contact Ken Cornelius at 205-979-7393 or KROSCornAL@aol.com.
Led by Ellen Johnson, the American Atheists national headquarters is located at Parsippany, New Jersey.
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA --– Larry Darby, Alabama State Director for American Atheists, Inc., today announced final plans for a Secular Memorial and Tribute to Atheists in Foxholes to be held Wednesday, September 11, 2002, on the front steps to the Capitol beginning about 8:45 a.m.
Last Sept. 11 Islamic militants launched the ultimate “faith-based initiative” and attacked targets in Washington, DC and New York City. Government officials used this tragedy as an excuse to violate the separation between government and religion. Religious belief is now promoted as a badge of patriotism. Millions of Americans professing no religion have been insulted, marginalized and excluded.
Alabama Atheists will honor the victims of this tragedy and salute the many Atheist heroes and heroines who have served and continue to serve in the U. S. armed forces wherever called, including Afghanistan.
The Christian myth that there are no “Atheists in foxholes” will be dispelled as Atheist veterans will be featured during this event. Speakers include:
George Whatley, M.D., Ret., Birmingham, U. S. Navy, 1944-1946.
Carol Moore, Shelby County, Women’s Army Corps, 1973-1974.
Blair Scott, Mobile, U. S. Navy, 1990-1998.
Sgt. Kathleen Johnson, U. S. Army, currently stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana, will deliver the keynote address. Sgt. Johnson entered the U. S. Army at Fort McClellan, Alabama in 1985 and in 1997 founded the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, an official affiliate of American Atheists.
Darby was advised this date by the governor’s office that the State Memorial Service will be at the Avenue of Flags or south side of the Capitol beginning at 7:45 a.m., ending by 8:30 a.m.
The Secular Memorial will commence at about 8:45 a.m. or a reasonable time after the completion of the State’s (and Alabama National Guard’s) event.
For more information contact Darby at 334-270-8223 or ldarby@atheists.org.
In Birmingham contact Ken Cornelius at 205-979-7393 or KROSCornAL@aol.com.
Led by Ellen Johnson, the American Atheists national headquarters is located at Parsippany, New Jersey.
your stupid and ignorant. The founding fathers are all believers of God, so what if they are involve in a chess club or play soft ball or a member of a freemasonry organization, FACT IS FACT, FACT IS THEY ARE BELIEVERS OF GOD.
A god, perhaps...not necessarily your god. Nevertheless, they had the presence of mind to construct the Constitution to protect ALL beliefs, including the lack of belief.
WHO ARE THE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY, TELL ME. PERSECUTION OF OTHER RELIGION? WE ARE ALL COMPOSED OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS UNDER ONE GOD, there are no hiduism that died for this country, there are no muslim, AND IF YOU SAY THERE IS THEN PROVE IT, show me in a history that it says there were patriots who fought for this country.
1) I'd like you to prove that...does the military only take devote Christians? And how can the one nation, made of various beliefs, be under ONE god? I guess that's yet another "don't ask, don't tell" thing.
YOUR REMOVAL OF IN GOD WE TRUST IS AFFECTING MY RIGHTS AND CITIZENS OF AMERICA THE RIGHT OF SPEECH, SO YOUR BELIEF MUST BE REMOVED.
Incorrect. Freedom of speech (or any other freedom) only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights. Therefore, the lowest common denominator to protect all rights is to not state an oath or trust in one particular god BY THE GOV'T. You as an individual can do whatever you want.
And yes, this has something to do for those who died for this country,IF YOU ATHEIST WANT YOUR VOICE HEARD, THEN EARN IT, DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, UNTIL THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE..
Thanks for giving credit where it's due. I guess the only things that get done in this country are done by Christians. Ever think you don't hear atheists nearly as much as the religious right because most of us respect YOUR beliefs, just don't subscribe to them? Kind of a contrast....
- Jaxom
A god, perhaps...not necessarily your god. Nevertheless, they had the presence of mind to construct the Constitution to protect ALL beliefs, including the lack of belief.
WHO ARE THE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY, TELL ME. PERSECUTION OF OTHER RELIGION? WE ARE ALL COMPOSED OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS UNDER ONE GOD, there are no hiduism that died for this country, there are no muslim, AND IF YOU SAY THERE IS THEN PROVE IT, show me in a history that it says there were patriots who fought for this country.
1) I'd like you to prove that...does the military only take devote Christians? And how can the one nation, made of various beliefs, be under ONE god? I guess that's yet another "don't ask, don't tell" thing.
YOUR REMOVAL OF IN GOD WE TRUST IS AFFECTING MY RIGHTS AND CITIZENS OF AMERICA THE RIGHT OF SPEECH, SO YOUR BELIEF MUST BE REMOVED.
Incorrect. Freedom of speech (or any other freedom) only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights. Therefore, the lowest common denominator to protect all rights is to not state an oath or trust in one particular god BY THE GOV'T. You as an individual can do whatever you want.
And yes, this has something to do for those who died for this country,IF YOU ATHEIST WANT YOUR VOICE HEARD, THEN EARN IT, DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, UNTIL THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE..
Thanks for giving credit where it's due. I guess the only things that get done in this country are done by Christians. Ever think you don't hear atheists nearly as much as the religious right because most of us respect YOUR beliefs, just don't subscribe to them? Kind of a contrast....
- Jaxom
NO, I never said that military only take christians. Im, referring to factual History that all religions, protestants, catholics, etc. are all under ONE same God. The patriots who died for this country are all believers of God. And not one of them believe in hunduism, or buddhist at those time, otherwise prove your claim, historically speaking its the christians that died for this country, not one atheist.
"Incorrect. Freedom of speech (or any other freedom) only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights. Therefore, the lowest common denominator to protect all rights is to not state an oath or trust in one particular god BY THE GOV'T. You as an individual can do whatever you want."- Jaxom [/B][/QUOTE]
YOUR RIGHT, freedom of speech or any other freedom only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights, but theres a problem here, YOUR BELIEF AND THE EXERCISE OF YOUR RIGHTS INFRINGE ON CHRISTIANITY BELIEFS, IN FACT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WERE THERE ALREADY, FOR YOU TO REMOVE THAT IS TO EXERCISE YOUR BELIEF WHICH INFRINGE OUR BELIEFS. If it was removed (God forbids), the rights of Christianity are not protected, and their rights of speech.
NO, I never said that military only take christians. Im, referring to factual History that all religions, protestants, catholics, etc. are all under ONE same God. The patriots who died for this country are all believers of God. And not one of them believe in hunduism, or buddhist at those time, otherwise prove your claim, historically speaking its the christians that died for this country, not one atheist.
You inferred it though, since you didn't specify what time period you were referring to. It may be true that in the Revolutionary War 99.9% of those that fought were of some Christian persuasion, although I'd warrant that there were still atheists too, since some of the Founding Fathers were. However, there are plenty of non-Christians who have died for the country in recent times. To make a blanket statement is a bit degrading on their sacrifice.
YOUR RIGHT, freedom of speech or any other freedom only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights, but theres a problem here, YOUR BELIEF AND THE EXERCISE OF YOUR RIGHTS INFRINGE ON CHRISTIANITY BELIEFS, IN FACT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WERE THERE ALREADY, FOR YOU TO REMOVE THAT IS TO EXERCISE YOUR BELIEF WHICH INFRINGE OUR BELIEFS. If it was removed (God forbids), the rights of Christianity are not protected, and their rights of speech.
Are you referring to the original Pledge, or the Christian modified one? I'll take the more neutral one, thank you. You seem to miss the point that having a certain religious tone IS infringing on some, while having NO religious tone is not.
You inferred it though, since you didn't specify what time period you were referring to. It may be true that in the Revolutionary War 99.9% of those that fought were of some Christian persuasion, although I'd warrant that there were still atheists too, since some of the Founding Fathers were. However, there are plenty of non-Christians who have died for the country in recent times. To make a blanket statement is a bit degrading on their sacrifice.
YOUR RIGHT, freedom of speech or any other freedom only applies if it does not infringe upon other's beliefs and rights, but theres a problem here, YOUR BELIEF AND THE EXERCISE OF YOUR RIGHTS INFRINGE ON CHRISTIANITY BELIEFS, IN FACT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WERE THERE ALREADY, FOR YOU TO REMOVE THAT IS TO EXERCISE YOUR BELIEF WHICH INFRINGE OUR BELIEFS. If it was removed (God forbids), the rights of Christianity are not protected, and their rights of speech.
Are you referring to the original Pledge, or the Christian modified one? I'll take the more neutral one, thank you. You seem to miss the point that having a certain religious tone IS infringing on some, while having NO religious tone is not.
"WHO ARE THE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY, TELL ME. PERSECUTION OF OTHER RELIGION? WE ARE ALL COMPOSED OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS UNDER ONE GOD, there are no hiduism that died for this country, there are no muslim, AND IF YOU SAY THERE IS THEN PROVE IT, show me in a history that it says there were patriots who fought for this country. "
What a completely arrogant and discriminating thing to say. Get off your high horse, you're no better than the Taliban with your attitude.
"YOUR REMOVAL OF IN GOD WE TRUST IS AFFECTING MY RIGHTS AND CITIZENS OF AMERICA THE RIGHT OF SPEECH, SO YOUR BELIEF MUST BE REMOVED"
No it is not affecting you rights. No one is stopping you from saying it, even if it is not part of the pledge. However by putting it in the pledge you are forcing others to say it whether they want to or not. THAT is infringement of rights. I don't understand how someone can be so ignorant..
"IF YOU ATHEIST WANT YOUR VOICE HEARD, THEN EARN IT, DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, UNTIL THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE.. "
Right, and I suppose you call the Spanish Inquisition productive? Or how about the Holocaust? How about forcing your stupid beliefs on other people, giving them the choice of a God they don't believe in or death? What exactly have you done that is productive anyway? You pray and go to church, big deal. Stop acting like some kind of advanced human being just because you believe in some magical being you've never seen. And for Gods sake learn to use the quote button, this is getting annoying.
What a completely arrogant and discriminating thing to say. Get off your high horse, you're no better than the Taliban with your attitude.
"YOUR REMOVAL OF IN GOD WE TRUST IS AFFECTING MY RIGHTS AND CITIZENS OF AMERICA THE RIGHT OF SPEECH, SO YOUR BELIEF MUST BE REMOVED"
No it is not affecting you rights. No one is stopping you from saying it, even if it is not part of the pledge. However by putting it in the pledge you are forcing others to say it whether they want to or not. THAT is infringement of rights. I don't understand how someone can be so ignorant..
"IF YOU ATHEIST WANT YOUR VOICE HEARD, THEN EARN IT, DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE, UNTIL THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE.. "
Right, and I suppose you call the Spanish Inquisition productive? Or how about the Holocaust? How about forcing your stupid beliefs on other people, giving them the choice of a God they don't believe in or death? What exactly have you done that is productive anyway? You pray and go to church, big deal. Stop acting like some kind of advanced human being just because you believe in some magical being you've never seen. And for Gods sake learn to use the quote button, this is getting annoying.
I dont think christians are advanced in their prosperity and success, WE ARE ADVANCED AND PROSPEROUS AND SUCCESFULL. HAHAHAHA, about the holocaust, spanish inquisition, etc. u notice the bad things we do but u never notice the good that we do. And let me guess, your gonna say America is bad for bombing Iraq without knowing the whole story. WHAT ABOUT COMMUNISM, WHAT ABOUT THE FRENCH, WHAT ABOUT STALIN AN ATHEIST GUY, THEY ARE ALL KILLERS TOO, and dont forget the Germans, they are killers too. FOR GOD'S SAKE GROW UP AND USE A BETTER ARGUMENT, LOL, AND YOUR CALLING ME IMMATURE AND IGNORANT? LOOK WHOS TALKING. Listen we are all sinners and make mistakes ok? Lets leave it to that, christians or not, buddhist or not, atheist or not, Yes u heard me, atheist makes mistakes too (r u surprised?), GROW UP.
"I dont think christians are advanced in their prosperity and success, WE ARE ADVANCED AND PROSPEROUS AND SUCCESFULL. "
Then what makes you different from Hitler?
"u notice the bad things we do but u never notice the good that we do."
Such as...?
"And let me guess, your gonna say America is bad for bombing Iraq without knowing the whole story."
No, actually I support America's stance on Iraq. I'd hate to see another Hitler scenario arise because no one kept the aggressors in check.
"WHAT ABOUT COMMUNISM, WHAT ABOUT THE FRENCH, WHAT ABOUT STALIN AN ATHEIST GUY, THEY ARE ALL KILLERS TOO"
What about communism? What about the French?
"FOR GOD'S SAKE GROW UP AND USE A BETTER ARGUMENT, LOL, AND YOUR CALLING ME IMMATURE AND IGNORANT? "
Yes, I am calling you immature and ignorant, because you cannot argue one post without insulting someone or downplaying other people's beliefs. That and you constantly talk in caps which is annoying as hell.
"Yes u heard me, atheist makes mistakes too (r u surprised?), "
No, I'm not.
Then what makes you different from Hitler?
"u notice the bad things we do but u never notice the good that we do."
Such as...?
"And let me guess, your gonna say America is bad for bombing Iraq without knowing the whole story."
No, actually I support America's stance on Iraq. I'd hate to see another Hitler scenario arise because no one kept the aggressors in check.
"WHAT ABOUT COMMUNISM, WHAT ABOUT THE FRENCH, WHAT ABOUT STALIN AN ATHEIST GUY, THEY ARE ALL KILLERS TOO"
What about communism? What about the French?
"FOR GOD'S SAKE GROW UP AND USE A BETTER ARGUMENT, LOL, AND YOUR CALLING ME IMMATURE AND IGNORANT? "
Yes, I am calling you immature and ignorant, because you cannot argue one post without insulting someone or downplaying other people's beliefs. That and you constantly talk in caps which is annoying as hell.
"Yes u heard me, atheist makes mistakes too (r u surprised?), "
No, I'm not.
lol. Yes Muscleman, of course all those who died for the country are of some Christian persuasion, God loved all the others fighting in wars better than the Christians so he decided to let them live longer before flinging them in to hell with the xtians.