god in the pledge of allegiance
- Thread starter yumyum
- Start date
Seeing as how it was added to the constitution during the 60s I don't see why it shouldn't be taken off now. By keeping "one nation under God" in the pledge you are forcing religious beliefs on people, this is simply not right. Freedom of religion. Therefor it should be taken off, and anyone who wants to keep saying "under God" can go ahead and do so.
Or maybe we should change it to "One nation, under Allah", I wonder how well that will go over with Christians.
"I think its retarded that we argue about petty things."
That's what politicians do, it's their job to argue over stupid things like this.
Or maybe we should change it to "One nation, under Allah", I wonder how well that will go over with Christians.
"I think its retarded that we argue about petty things."
That's what politicians do, it's their job to argue over stupid things like this.
i suggest a compromise....de-capitalize "God"....make everyone except born-again-atheists happy.
Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
I'm not American, so I don't give a rat's ass, however, I really think the pledge sounds better without the "under God". It sounds like it has been duct taped on. It reminds me of an addition to a building that is out of step with its original character.
"In God we Trust" is a bit more elegant.
"In God we Trust" is a bit more elegant.
a new pledge...
I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and Jesus Christ, and to the Christian republic for which it stands.
One nation under the devine rule of God, indivisible, with liberty, Christian Bibles, Christian Churches, and justice for all.
Amen.
-Mike
I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and Jesus Christ, and to the Christian republic for which it stands.
One nation under the devine rule of God, indivisible, with liberty, Christian Bibles, Christian Churches, and justice for all.
Amen.
-Mike
Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
VC scrambles into asbestos underwear, fetches fire estinguisher.
In God we Trust is simply a blatant lie.
If “we” are the people, and clearly not all the people believe in a god, and since the statement implies ALL people then the statement cannot be true. Or in other words it is a lie.
Why would a nation choose to print a dishonest statement on its currency?
One Nation Under God. An unsupportable Christian statement designed to indoctrinate the gullible into outdated superstitions, and utterly inappropriate as a patriotic statement for a country that was not based on Christian principles.
Both statements are offensive, inappropriate within their usage, and should be removed from public use.
Cris
If “we” are the people, and clearly not all the people believe in a god, and since the statement implies ALL people then the statement cannot be true. Or in other words it is a lie.
Why would a nation choose to print a dishonest statement on its currency?
One Nation Under God. An unsupportable Christian statement designed to indoctrinate the gullible into outdated superstitions, and utterly inappropriate as a patriotic statement for a country that was not based on Christian principles.
Both statements are offensive, inappropriate within their usage, and should be removed from public use.
Cris
The history
A quick search gives the obvious religious influence of the In God We Trust motto. http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/igwt1.htm
That single fact itself didn't bother me, since I can see how it can change from a solely religious reason to more of a tradition, although why it routinely was such a strictly enforced rule is odd. Further reading of what else has been attempted, namely changing the preable of the Constitution itself though is quite disturbing.
"We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, His revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government..."
I love how the separation of Church and State is constantly and subtly challenged like this. It isn't enough to be able to worship in this country, no, you've got to make it the "official" religion, and to hell (literally) with the rest of us.
- Jaxom
A quick search gives the obvious religious influence of the In God We Trust motto. http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/igwt1.htm
That single fact itself didn't bother me, since I can see how it can change from a solely religious reason to more of a tradition, although why it routinely was such a strictly enforced rule is odd. Further reading of what else has been attempted, namely changing the preable of the Constitution itself though is quite disturbing.
"We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, His revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government..."
I love how the separation of Church and State is constantly and subtly challenged like this. It isn't enough to be able to worship in this country, no, you've got to make it the "official" religion, and to hell (literally) with the rest of us.
- Jaxom
When an Atheist becomes president, then we will find this is over.
Sadly, people are so against Atheists that they would not vote for an Atheist president even if he/she had political values that were good in their eyes.
Until then... we are stuck with idiots like Bush who think that our nation is a theocracy, or that it is a dictatorship run by Christ. lol. Christ died a couple thousand years ago, guys! Get with the picture!
Sadly, people are so against Atheists that they would not vote for an Atheist president even if he/she had political values that were good in their eyes.
Until then... we are stuck with idiots like Bush who think that our nation is a theocracy, or that it is a dictatorship run by Christ. lol. Christ died a couple thousand years ago, guys! Get with the picture!
I voted the wrong way... I meant to vote for no but accidentally clicked yes
Maybe the whole he-spirit compelled me to do it?
Maybe the whole he-spirit compelled me to do it?
Only reason American polititians like Bush appeal to God so much is that it gives them good publicity. It's sad when people vote based on religion and not values and leadership capability. Is it just me or does Bush look like a monkey?
Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
<center><img src="http://members.aol.com/richidscal/images/pic39.jpg" border="4" /></center>
Yay, my vote and the option of taking it out is winning.
Though yeah, hasn't this been done before?
I think Under God should be taken out, cos half the people who say it don't believe in (the Christian) God, and America being such a large country, it's foolish to try and include everyone on that bracket. It's also introducing the whole social psychology thing of in-groups and out-groups, which I don't agree with.
Though yeah, hasn't this been done before?
I think Under God should be taken out, cos half the people who say it don't believe in (the Christian) God, and America being such a large country, it's foolish to try and include everyone on that bracket. It's also introducing the whole social psychology thing of in-groups and out-groups, which I don't agree with.
Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
I voted the wrong way... I meant to vote for no but accidentally clicked yes
Maybe the whole he-spirit compelled me to do it?
the power of christ compels you.
The Power of Christ Compels You!
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!
Originally posted by Xelios
Seeing as how it was added to the constitution during the 60s I don't see why it shouldn't be taken off now. By keeping "one nation under God" in the pledge you are forcing religious beliefs on people, this is simply not right. Freedom of religion. Therefor it should be taken off, and anyone who wants to keep saying "under God" can go ahead and do so.
Or maybe we should change it to "One nation, under Allah", I wonder how well that will go over with Christians.
"I think its retarded that we argue about petty things."
That's what politicians do, it's their job to argue over stupid things like this.
U know why Xelios? Because this nation is founded under believers of God, the founding fathers, everyone including all the soldiers that died for this country are believers of God. Not one of them r muslims or atheist, but r catholic christians, protestants, Deist.
You dont like the truth and history? Then get out of here and go to china. You earned your freedom because christians died for that freedom. This country, from the beggining indeed is One nation under God, period...a Fact..Again, millions of christians have died for this contry and u have done nothing yet, and how dare u remove the what existed even before you were born. Because of that you show no respect for the those who died for this country who are christians, no respect for the founding fathers, if anything its atheist that need to be removed in america FOR NOT KEEPING THEIR PROOFLESS AND SENSELES BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES.
MM,
The founding fathers were primarily Deists or Unitarians, both of which are enemies of Christianity.
The USA was not based on Christianity. The god of Deism is significantly different to that of the Christian god. Deism is also far closer to atheist thinking than it is to anything that resembles Christianity.
The founding fathers, having seen the disasters in Europe that were largely triggered by Christianity desperately wanted to avoid the same failures in this new land.
It is very unfortunate that the cancerous style of indoctrination spread by Christianity has managed to wheedle itself back into the minds of leading politicians who have conveniently forgotten the lessons of history, and once again we see an insane religious force operating to overturn rational thinking, and potentially plunge the world back into chaos.
Cris
The founding fathers were primarily Deists or Unitarians, both of which are enemies of Christianity.
The USA was not based on Christianity. The god of Deism is significantly different to that of the Christian god. Deism is also far closer to atheist thinking than it is to anything that resembles Christianity.
The founding fathers, having seen the disasters in Europe that were largely triggered by Christianity desperately wanted to avoid the same failures in this new land.
It is very unfortunate that the cancerous style of indoctrination spread by Christianity has managed to wheedle itself back into the minds of leading politicians who have conveniently forgotten the lessons of history, and once again we see an insane religious force operating to overturn rational thinking, and potentially plunge the world back into chaos.
Cris
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what religion, if any, the founding fathers were... they could have been voodoo priests for all it matters. The 1st Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It doesn't say "a particular establishment of religion". It doesn't say "no law forcing people to practice". The act the added "under god" to the pledge was unconstitutional, pure and simple.
~Raithere
It doesn't matter what religion, if any, the founding fathers were... they could have been voodoo priests for all it matters. The 1st Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It doesn't say "a particular establishment of religion". It doesn't say "no law forcing people to practice". The act the added "under god" to the pledge was unconstitutional, pure and simple.
~Raithere
"U know why Xelios? Because this nation is founded under believers of God, the founding fathers, everyone including all the soldiers that died for this country are believers of God. "
Wrong.
"earned your freedom because christians died for that freedom. "
They weren't the only ones. What you are trying to do is support persecution of other religions. The constitution (which Christians wrote, remember) clearly states that freedom of religion is a RIGHT that EVERYONE is entitled to, not just Christians. The pledge violates this right, and so it should be changed.
". Because of that you show no respect for the those who died for this country who are christians, "
Don't try and point me off to some guilt trip muscleman, this has nothing to do with those who died defending America. This has to do with the Pledge of Allegiance and the constitution of the United States. The pledge is clearly infracting people's rights, and so it MUST be changed, if it isn't then we might as well throw out the whole constitution.
", if anything its atheist that need to be removed in america FOR NOT KEEPING THEIR PROOFLESS AND SENSELES BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES."
ROFL! Oh my God this is rich. You know what, this is such an idiotic statement that I'm just going to ignore it for your sake ok?
Wrong.
"earned your freedom because christians died for that freedom. "
They weren't the only ones. What you are trying to do is support persecution of other religions. The constitution (which Christians wrote, remember) clearly states that freedom of religion is a RIGHT that EVERYONE is entitled to, not just Christians. The pledge violates this right, and so it should be changed.
". Because of that you show no respect for the those who died for this country who are christians, "
Don't try and point me off to some guilt trip muscleman, this has nothing to do with those who died defending America. This has to do with the Pledge of Allegiance and the constitution of the United States. The pledge is clearly infracting people's rights, and so it MUST be changed, if it isn't then we might as well throw out the whole constitution.
", if anything its atheist that need to be removed in america FOR NOT KEEPING THEIR PROOFLESS AND SENSELES BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES."
ROFL! Oh my God this is rich. You know what, this is such an idiotic statement that I'm just going to ignore it for your sake ok?