God for body, not for car.

[aaqucnaona]

Interesting observation -

My father is a strong theist and a fundamentalist [my mom's a weak theist and a moderate]. He happened to be on a trip with his friends yesterday, when their car broke down - one of his friends prayed that the car be fixed, maybe was just an overheat or something. At this point, my dad did what we all tend to do - he called the BS of his friend - that praying would not be as good an idea as calling a mechanic. The whole matter slipped by in the normal fun friends have [and they have been friends since childhood] until it came up in our discussion about how the trip went.

Now the interesting point is this - when my granny was sick, he prayed for her. Why? Because she mattered more to him than his friend's car? Because cars are easier to fix than people? Yes, but I think it cuts deeper than that - in this scenario, we have an excellent demonstrantion of a self-administered placebo - God being an invisble safety cage, brought out [or imagined to be there] when there are sharks around, but practically made fun of if there are only sardines. This itself, if true, would cut even deeper - that his belief in God is not rational even to himself, and this information is suppressed when the placebo may be needed.

The real punchline is this - he may have subconsciously recognised this fact, because he later became convinced that God did actually do something, he messed up the car. Why? Well, if you drive 150 miles on almost any highway, you are bound to see an accident or two. They saw one such car lying in the service lane, waiting to be towed and voila - that is what God wanted to protect him from - the very thing that shook his placebo now strengthened it - an excelllent example of the power of the subconsious.

Any thoughts?

God is the answer to everything -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0EEKfTnfvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ZIZ-Upalk

 

[arauca]

Interesting observation -

My father is a strong theist and a fundamentalist [my mom's a weak theist and a moderate]. He happened to be on a trip with his friends yesterday, when their car broke down - one of his friends prayed that the car be fixed, maybe was just an overheat or something. At this point, my dad did what we all tend to do - he called the BS of his friend - that praying would not be as good an idea as calling a mechanic. The whole matter slipped by in the normal fun friends have [and they have been friends since childhood] until it came up in our discussion about how the trip went.

Now the interesting point is this - when my granny was sick, he prayed for her. Why? Because she mattered more to him than his friend's car? Because cars are easier to fix than people? Yes, but I think it cuts deeper than that - in this scenario, we have an excellent demonstrantion of a self-administered placebo - God being an invisble safety cage, brought out [or imagined to be there] when there are sharks around, but practically made fun of if there are only sardines. This itself, if true, would cut even deeper - that his belief in God is not rational even to himself, and this information is suppressed when the placebo may be needed.

The real punchline is this - he may have subconsciously recognised this fact, because he later became convinced that God did actually do something, he messed up the car. Why? Well, if you drive 150 miles on almost any highway, you are bound to see an accident or two. They saw one such car lying in the service lane, waiting to be towed and voila - that is what God wanted to protect him from - the very thing that shook his placebo now strengthened it - an excelllent example of the power of the subconsious.

Any thoughts?

God is the answer to everything -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0EEKfTnfvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ZIZ-Upalk

Pardon me but you are areal bastard for using your family to carry on your policy in making fun of people who have a belief

First of all I would not believe your father would not be so naive to pray for a lifeless mechanical object. He my pray for help fi which ever it comes .But here again , you are showing your dis concern or immoral attitude.

 

[aaqucnaona]

Pardon me but you are areal bastard for using your family to carry on your policy in making fun of people who have a belief

First of all I would not believe your father would not be so naive to pray for a lifeless mechanical object. He my pray for help fi which ever it comes .But here again , you are showing your dis concern or immoral attitude.

Woah - hold your horses. I am not making fun of my father. And as a subject of a psychological discussion, what difference does it make that he's my father? He didnt pray, his friend did and father jokingly ridiculed it - you know, the way friends do. And the friends didn't pray for the car, he prayed for luck, he had to be at a wedding that evening. I am not disconcerned, merely disinterested. I not not even unintersted or insincere. And its not immoral to point out the flaw in an idea when you see one - no matter whose idea it is. Moreover, the point of this thread is not to ridicule, but the explore the underlying comfort-placebo mechanism of many theists' belief in God.

 

[AlexG]

Is not the internal combustion engine one of God's creations? Doesn't it deserve some consideration and a prayer or two?

 

[wynn]

Interesting observation -

My father is a strong theist and a fundamentalist [my mom's a weak theist and a moderate]. He happened to be on a trip with his friends yesterday, when their car broke down - one of his friends prayed that the car be fixed, maybe was just an overheat or something. At this point, my dad did what we all tend to do - he called the BS of his friend - that praying would not be as good an idea as calling a mechanic. The whole matter slipped by in the normal fun friends have [and they have been friends since childhood] until it came up in our discussion about how the trip went.

Now the interesting point is this - when my granny was sick, he prayed for her. Why? Because she mattered more to him than his friend's car? Because cars are easier to fix than people? Yes, but I think it cuts deeper than that - in this scenario, we have an excellent demonstrantion of a self-administered placebo - God being an invisble safety cage, brought out [or imagined to be there] when there are sharks around, but practically made fun of if there are only sardines. This itself, if true, would cut even deeper - that his belief in God is not rational even to himself, and this information is suppressed when the placebo may be needed.

The real punchline is this - he may have subconsciously recognised this fact, because he later became convinced that God did actually do something, he messed up the car. Why? Well, if you drive 150 miles on almost any highway, you are bound to see an accident or two. They saw one such car lying in the service lane, waiting to be towed and voila - that is what God wanted to protect him from - the very thing that shook his placebo now strengthened it - an excelllent example of the power of the subconsious.

Any thoughts?

1. Why don't you just talk to your father? Ask him why praying for the car ddin't make sense to him, and why praying for his mother did.
Be open, and say that you think it's all placebo etc.


2. Read The subtle power of spiritual abuse.

 

[AlexG]

After all, prayers are cheap and easy to come by. Sort of a renewable resource.

 

[aaqucnaona]

The point isnt the prayer for the luck that the car might start without any hussle - its about how God is often used as a placebo for comfort.

 

[wynn]

The point isnt the prayer for the luck that the car might start without any hussle - its about how God is often used as a placebo for comfort.

When you talk like this, it's like you are are a full-blown strong atheist.

 

[aaqucnaona]

When you talk like this, it's like you are are a full-blown strong atheist.

I am not saying it in that sense - whether or not God exists, whether or not religions are God's word and whether or not God intervenes in our lives, people use the idea/concept of God for comfort and as a placebo. Thats all I imply and thats what this thread was made for.

 

[wynn]

Only a strong atheist can think that "people use the idea/concept of God for comfort and as a placebo."

 

[HectorDecimal]

Interesting observation -

My father is a strong theist and a fundamentalist [my mom's a weak theist and a moderate].

cars are easier to fix than people? Yes, but I think it cuts deeper than that - in this scenario, we have an excellent demonstrantion of a self-administered placebo - God being an invisble safety cage, brought out [or imagined to be there] when there are sharks around, but practically made fun of if there are only sardines.

and this information is suppressed when the placebo may be needed.

The real punchline is this - he may have subconsciously recognised this fact, because he later became convinced that God did actually do something, he messed up the car. Why?

the very thing that shook his placebo now strengthened it - an excelllent example of the power of the subconsious.

Any thoughts?

God is the answer to everything -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0EEKfTnfvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ZIZ-Upalk

Can't check out the tube effectively at the moment, but that will change soon.

Thoughts:

The sons of fundamentalists would be logical candidates for impersonalizing a prayer seemingly unanswered after the dad appeared to have sewn the seeds of doubt. Granny's demise was unsurmoiuntable. The dad's "God" was either weak or a real stinker. I could envision God rolling his eyes and taking the Occam's Razor way out. It was easier to do nothing and then teach the dad that he knew it all along: God sucks at turning wrenches. That's usually the way artists are. As you say, the placebo effect kicked in to replace a genuine revelation that he looked for on how to get everyone home.

From a medical standpoint, I'd imagine an NMRI active would possibly pull a lot of dopamine into what became a delusion.

Do you ever wonder where the genetics of delusional thinking end, or which bloodline it comes from? The question between many of us, I think, is gambling:

The theist can be wrong without risk save for ridicule. The atheist, or worse, anti-theist, cannot afford to be wrong. They havge invested their whole wad on 50/50 chance against the theist's bet of 0. If the atheist, or anti-theist are right, in the end for both it was all a meaningless waste of time. Had the dad been right, the engine would run on some other safety factor doing everything 1000% right so events were accomplished to show the son a little something to believe in.

Someone or somones are in need of some lesson. I've quit school a few times metaphorically, but always found something that kept me curious about more lessons and where the lessons lead.

 

[arauca]

After all, prayers are cheap and easy to come by. Sort of a renewable resource.

Yes I agree , but prayer with out believe is just a mockery . If you would be god would you accept such prayer ?

 

[aaqucnaona]

Yes I agree , but prayer with out believe is just a mockery . If you would be god would you accept such prayer ?

If I were God, there would be no need for prayer.

 

[aaqucnaona]

The sons of fundamentalists

My dad's not a radical, he is just a fundamentalist, in that he believes the scripture to be historically true and in God as a personal deity.

would be logical candidates for impersonalizing a prayer seemingly unanswered after the dad appeared to have sewn the seeds of doubt.

My dad never sowed the seeds of doubt. My mom was the one who made be an ecclectic - and I made myself a sceptic. Together, theist is hardly likely.

Granny's demise was unsurmoiuntable.

See's still alive, he wasn't praying for her life, but for her health.

The dad's "God" was either weak or a real stinker. I could envision God rolling his eyes and taking the Occam's Razor way out. It was easier to do nothing and then teach the dad that he knew it all along: God sucks at turning wrenches. That's usually the way artists are. As you say, the placebo effect kicked in to replace a genuine revelation that he looked for on how to get everyone home.

Do you ever wonder where the genetics of delusional thinking end, or which bloodline it comes from? The question between many of us, I think, is gambling:

There is a difference between instincts [determined by genetics and subject to mutation] and thoughts [determined by memetics and subject to will].

The theist can be wrong without risk save for ridicule. The atheist, or worse, anti-theist, cannot afford to be wrong. They havge invested their whole wad on 50/50 chance against the theist's bet of 0. If the atheist, or anti-theist are right, in the end for both it was all a meaningless waste of time. Had the dad been right, the engine would run on some other safety factor doing everything 1000% right so events were accomplished to show the son a little something to believe in.

Pascal's wager. Another classic.

Someone or somones are in need of some lesson. I've quit school a few times metaphorically, but always found something that kept me curious about more lessons and where the lessons lead.

About 3 miles over my head.

 

[lightgigantic]

Interesting observation -

My father is a strong theist and a fundamentalist [my mom's a weak theist and a moderate]. He happened to be on a trip with his friends yesterday, when their car broke down - one of his friends prayed that the car be fixed, maybe was just an overheat or something. At this point, my dad did what we all tend to do - he called the BS of his friend - that praying would not be as good an idea as calling a mechanic. The whole matter slipped by in the normal fun friends have [and they have been friends since childhood] until it came up in our discussion about how the trip went.

Now the interesting point is this - when my granny was sick, he prayed for her. Why? Because she mattered more to him than his friend's car? Because cars are easier to fix than people? Yes, but I think it cuts deeper than that - in this scenario, we have an excellent demonstrantion of a self-administered placebo - God being an invisble safety cage, brought out [or imagined to be there] when there are sharks around, but practically made fun of if there are only sardines. This itself, if true, would cut even deeper - that his belief in God is not rational even to himself, and this information is suppressed when the placebo may be needed.

The real punchline is this - he may have subconsciously recognised this fact, because he later became convinced that God did actually do something, he messed up the car. Why? Well, if you drive 150 miles on almost any highway, you are bound to see an accident or two. They saw one such car lying in the service lane, waiting to be towed and voila - that is what God wanted to protect him from - the very thing that shook his placebo now strengthened it - an excelllent example of the power of the subconsious.

Any thoughts?

God is the answer to everything -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0EEKfTnfvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ZIZ-Upalk

I'm not sure exactly what you are problematizing here.
Its a common gross misunderstanding that being under the protection of god means that one effectively becomes a non-entity. Surrender to god is a lot more complex than sitting on one's laurels ....

 

[arauca]

If I were God, there would be no need for prayer.

It depends what you mean what a prayer means ?
A prayer does not mean ,, give me , give me , give me . For me is talking to some as my father , and appreciating his creation. That is all.

 

[HectorDecimal]

My dad's not a radical, he is just a fundamentalist, in that he believes the scripture to be historically true and in God as a personal deity.



My dad never sowed the seeds of doubt. My mom was the one who made be an ecclectic - and I made myself a sceptic. Together, theist is hardly likely.



See's still alive, he wasn't praying for her life, but for her health.







There is a difference between instincts [determined by genetics and subject to mutation] and thoughts [determined by memetics and subject to will].



Pascal's wager. Another classic.



About 3 miles over my head.

I'm glad your Granny is still alive. Something must have gone right there.


Fundamentalism enters all religions, atheist or theist. It is generally built upon the fundamentals of the teacher, more than the foundations of the original source of the teachings. Sometimes God intervenes to supply some corrections to what someone taught and that intervention may be as simple as refusing to do anything at all. The foundations of a religiion may be very valid, but the fundamentals are very often misgivings. Science is supposed to expose the errors, but is often greeted by blind rhetoric from both camps.

God was teaching you both a lesson. Your dad about how He really works. You wer being taught to rely on His teaching not your dad's handed down fundamental errors. Whether you want to admit it or not, He still hangs around you. Otherwise why would you still be seeking an answer or others' thoughts about a God subject?

Be glad He's still there. That really is a good sign

You asked for "thoughts." You responded to mine. I responded to your rebuttal. I'm venturing you are a pretty good fellow and you certainly aren't finding insults from me; just compassion and my take froim a theist's perspective on a God query in the OPost.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Only a strong atheist can think that "people use the idea/concept of God for comfort and as a placebo."

Prayer releases endorphins--at least in those who believe in it. If you're mortally wounded and a religious friend prays for you, it will make him feel better. If you're also religious, it will release some of your endorphins too, which can help the healing process. Otherwise it won't do shit for you--unless of course you're glad for your friend, in which case you're getting some endorphins after all.

 

[wynn]

Here's an idea: Why not just pour all the elements that make up a human body into a big container, stir the stuff, and leave it at that?

 

[lightgigantic]

I think fraggle releases endorphins talking about endorphins .....