"God Doesn't Want to Make us All Powerful"

[ricrery]

Ever ask a Christian why God gave us freewill (something he thinks is wrong ) and they responded with "God doesn't want us all powerful?" or some similar fanaticism? Well, in their opinion, being saints is the equivalent of God, but... that doesn't include omnipotence or omniscience, then why is that wrong? Ah, I see, it's either God isn't all powerful, or Christians make excuses for every single time they are proven wrong because they're fanatics on a world wide scale. God obviously is scared being good is too powerful and it would make everyone equal to him, so he had to give us freewill so we would suffer because he is a SoB who can't believe those who are mortal and limited are equal to his "Godhood", so that means:
A. God is not all powerful and he can't shit except be a normal human.
B. Christians are liars (no shit)
C. God is vulnerable and good is what destroys him (that means evil kills Satan?)
D. God himself was made up by scared Europeans.

Also, look at who Jesus damns:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Looks like pretty much all people of the world are damned for eternity for being fearful or effeminate? Am I right? So, in short, WORSHIP YOUR DAMNATION :worship::bravo: and when he damns you the Atheists will be pissed

 

[Bishadi]

Ever ask a Christian why God gave us freewill (something he thinks is wrong ) and they responded with "God doesn't want us all powerful?" or some similar fanaticism? Well, in their opinion, being saints is the equivalent of God, but... that doesn't include omnipotence or omniscience, then why is that wrong? Ah, I see, it's either God isn't all powerful, or Christians make excuses for every single time they are proven wrong because they're fanatics on a world wide scale. God obviously is scared being good is too powerful and it would make everyone equal to him, so he had to give us freewill so we would suffer because he is a SoB who can't believe those who are mortal and limited are equal to his "Godhood", so that means:
A. God is not all powerful and he can't shit except be a normal human.
B. Christians are liars (no shit)
C. God is vulnerable and good is what destroys him (that means evil kills Satan?)
D. God himself was made up by scared Europeans.

Also, look at who Jesus damns:



Looks like pretty much all people of the world are damned for eternity for being fearful or effeminate? Am I right? So, in short, WORSHIP YOUR DAMNATION :worship::bravo: and when he damns you the Atheists will be pissed

strange thread......

have ya EVER read the bible, torah?

try the first book called Genesis

Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' --


Looks like that God said "as one of US" per the words within the first book of the three religions out of egypt (abraham).


then to really look at the foundation of literature and writing, it appears that mankind CREATED all words (a reality check of fact!)

and WORDS are used to describe ANY of the god(s) ever to be believed by any human

So I ask; 'who made who'?

 

[ricrery]

I have... no idea what you said.

 

[Doreen]

Ever ask a Christian why God gave us freewill (something he thinks is wrong ) and they responded with "God doesn't want us all powerful?"

I agree with some sentiments in your post but right off the bat this first sentence confuses me. How does free will keep humans from being all powerful? Is it more powerful to be completely determined?

or some similar fanaticism? Well, in their opinion, being saints is the equivalent of God, but... that doesn't include omnipotence or omniscience, then why is that wrong?

This lost me too. I haven't heard Christians assert that saints are the equivalent of God. In Hinduism the equivalent to saints can be seen as equivalent to God, a kind of avatar for Shiva or some other role of the one God - if it is a monistic Hinduism. And in Buddhism a great master can be seen as, essentially, one with the Buddha - though this is not necessarily at all the same as God. In Christianity however Saints are not God or God's equivalent.

Ah, I see, it's either God isn't all powerful, or Christians make excuses for every single time they are proven wrong because they're fanatics on a world wide scale.

This can be a good point, but in the context it makes no sense. I cannot see this as a conclusion from what you wrote earlier.

God obviously is scared being good is too powerful and it would make everyone equal to him, so he had to give us freewill so we would suffer because he is a SoB who can't believe those who are mortal and limited are equal to his "Godhood", so that means:

Nor this conclusion either seems to follow from what came before. You can suffer if you are determined, in fact it is just as likely. How do you see the Christians who believe in predestination fitting in with this argument.

Also, look at who Jesus damns:



Looks like pretty much all people of the world are damned for eternity for being fearful or effeminate? Am I right? So, in short, WORSHIP YOUR DAMNATION :worship::bravo: and when he damns you the Atheists will be pissed

This portion seems to work better. Here actions we take because we have free will seem so often to be bad it is cruel to have set the system up so. I think it needs a lot of work, but I would focus here. The power issue seems confused to me.

 

[ricrery]

Well, I am stating I've had Christians state God didn't make us naturally good because that would make us gods ourselves, and how does that work?

 

[ricrery]

Here's one of his delusional posts

That God is ALL-POWERFUL doesn't mean He can make something that goes over or is even equal with Himself, otherwise that, which He creates, is God.

We are evil by nature because there is simply no other way. This is the sad truth about us and at the same time the great truth about God's HOLINESS. God is NOTHING like anything that He has ever created, including abstract things such as love. The world cannot produce true love because love is one of God's attributes, a part of His very essence. If any of us possessed one single attribute of God, we could be considered and declared God, and the truth is we don't and we CANNOT.

Now, it's often confused what God meant by creating us "in His own image". In short, it meant us having all the attributes of God, yet DEFECTIVE. Also, it meant us being a mirror by which God could reflect Himself to the evil world.

 

[lightgigantic]

Well, I am stating I've had Christians state God didn't make us naturally good because that would make us gods ourselves, and how does that work?

do you mean to say "fallible" instead of "good"?

 

[Doreen]

Here's one of his delusional posts

I think this is a minority position. And if I am recognizing the specific poster, he will himself tell you that very few people are really Christian. He considers himself part of a very very small group of true Christians. And he is not talking about some particular church, but rather scattered individuals.

 

[Doreen]

do you mean to say "fallible" instead of "good"?

I think he does mean 'good' here, though perhaps he'll disagree. I think he is getting here at the idea that we could have been made all nice guys and gals who were naturally inclined to follow all the rules. But we were made mixed, from the C perspective, have desires to do bad things and good things. So it is kind of a set up.

That's my interpretation. I think mixing in free will in the concept is only confusing, but the basic question is interesting. Why were we made such that we would desire to do bad things and good things and not just the latter? From a christian perspective, not an Eastern one.

 

[lightgigantic]

I think he does mean 'good' here, though perhaps he'll disagree. I think he is getting here at the idea that we could have been made all nice guys and gals who were naturally inclined to follow all the rules. But we were made mixed, from the C perspective, have desires to do bad things and good things. So it is kind of a set up.

That's my interpretation. I think mixing in free will in the concept is only confusing, but the basic question is interesting. Why were we made such that we would desire to do bad things and good things and not just the latter? From a christian perspective, not an Eastern one.

I guess I am still wondering how being perfectly socialized around "goodness" would suddenly grant one the status of god

 

[wynn]

I guess I am still wondering how being perfectly socialized around "goodness" would suddenly grant one the status of god

I think this Christian concern is in the same group as, for example, their notion that it is pride to want to know things, including wanting to know things about God.

I think there is a high degree of self-hate and indulging in illogic necessary in order to be a practicing mainstream Christian. But since they are meat-eaters, among other possibly problematic things, they can probably endure such a state of mind without being too bothered by it.

CS Lewis, for example, made prominent the simile of the divine pot maker - namely that God is like a pot maker, and souls are the pots that He makes. Some pots He likes (=souls that go to heaven), and some pots He doesn't like, and those He destroys (=souls that burn in hell for all eternity with no chance of redemption - duh, I have written this phrase so many times that it's starting to sound ridiculous ...) - just like an ordinary pot maker makes pots, and some he keeps and some he breaks and throws away. The argument goes that if a worldly pot maker is allowed to act like that, why shouldn't God be allowed to act that way as well - it's His Universe, after all, and He can do with it as He pleases.

Imagine what the state of mind of the person must be like who accepts such an argument, and what else may reasonably be expected from such a person. (I don't think much.)

Even Christians themselves will sometimes note that the theological or religious statements that they make are not always logical or that they are even mutually exclusive. At which point they tend to bring in the arguments that "God works in mysterious ways" and "God cannot be understood by philosophizing". Interesting, how they seem to bring in that argument only when they come to the end of their wits.

Personally, I am inclined to think that many Christian arguments are mixtures of the three modes - goodness, passion and ignorance all in one sentence.

 

[Sarkus]

But since they are meat-eaters, among other possibly problematic things,...

:bugeye:
Am I missing something here?
Eating meat is problematic... how and why, exactly?
:shrug:

 

[wynn]

I think he does mean 'good' here, though perhaps he'll disagree. I think he is getting here at the idea that we could have been made all nice guys and gals who were naturally inclined to follow all the rules. But we were made mixed, from the C perspective, have desires to do bad things and good things. So it is kind of a set up.
That's my interpretation. I think mixing in free will in the concept is only confusing, but the basic question is interesting. Why were we made such that we would desire to do bad things and good things and not just the latter? From a christian perspective, not an Eastern one..

I think this is what he means as well. I have wondered the same things, and asked Christians questions about that.

From a Christian perspective, I think the reply is that one should not wonder about such things, but just follow the instructions given by Christians.
Whatever that means, and however doable they may seem.

 

[wynn]

Am I missing something here?
Eating meat is problematic... how and why, exactly?

Do an experiment: Strictly refrain from eating any and all meat, fish and eggs (in any form, this also means many kinds sweets, some kinds of bread, food supplements etc. - study the labels for ingredients) for six months. Then get back to us.

 

[Sarkus]

Are you unable to tell me why and how eating meat is problematic, then? That's all I asked you to do. :shrug:
What is it about meat-eating that is problematic? Is it the meat itself, or the act of eating it?
Please do tell.

Should I stop my dog from eating meat as well?
What about other animals that eat meat?

You made the claim, I'm merely asking you to provide supplementary information. :shrug:
Hey ho.

 

[Doreen]

I think this is what he means as well. I have wondered the same things, and asked Christians questions about that.

From a Christian perspective, I think the reply is that one should not wonder about such things, but just follow the instructions given by Christians.
Whatever that means, and however doable they may seem.

When I read this I immediately wondered if you'd met a Christian who actually articulated that. That one should not wonder such things. I am quite sure this would be a frustrating experience, but it is so candid I think it would also be a relief. Rather than, for example, some convoluted explanation that doesn't seem to make sense, but who knows.

 

[sandy]

Ever ask a Christian why God gave us freewill (something he thinks is wrong ) and they responded with "God doesn't want us all powerful?" or some similar fanaticism? Well, in their opinion, being saints is the equivalent of God, but... that doesn't include omnipotence or omniscience, then why is that wrong? Ah, I see, it's either God isn't all powerful, or Christians make excuses for every single time they are proven wrong because they're fanatics on a world wide scale. God obviously is scared being good is too powerful and it would make everyone equal to him, so he had to give us freewill so we would suffer because he is a SoB who can't believe those who are mortal and limited are equal to his "Godhood", so that means:
A. God is not all powerful and he can't shit except be a normal human.
B. Christians are liars (no shit)
C. God is vulnerable and good is what destroys him (that means evil kills Satan?)
D. God himself was made up by scared Europeans.
Also, look at who Jesus damns:
Looks like pretty much all people of the world are damned for eternity for being fearful or effeminate? Am I right? So, in short, WORSHIP YOUR DAMNATION and when he damns you the Atheists will be pissed

God gave us free will so we CHOOSE to worship Him. Or not. I have never met a Christian who thinks free will is wrong and I know thousands. God is scared of nothing. Absolutely nothing. He is all-powerful and could strike your ass dead if He wanted. However, he has sent people to try to reach you and that is freaking you the hell out. Good, decent, born-again Christians don't lie. Not ever. God is not vulnerable. Not in any way. God was not made up by anyone. He is the Great I Am. He always was and always will be. We will never be able to comprehend His awesomeness. No one is damned for being fearful or effiminate. They are damned to Hell for not choosing Jesus Christ/God as Lord and Savior and for not being believers. God's/Jesus' kids go to be with Him in His home, Heaven, when they die. Satan's kids go to be with him in his home, hell, when they die.

 

[wynn]

Are you unable to tell me why and how eating meat is problematic, then? That's all I asked you to do.
What is it about meat-eating that is problematic? Is it the meat itself, or the act of eating it?
Please do tell.

Should I stop my dog from eating meat as well?
What about other animals that eat meat?

You made the claim, I'm merely asking you to provide supplementary information.
Hey ho.

I could list reasons for vegetarianism - which you or someone else could counter with reasons for being a meat eater.
I am sure you, and most people here, are aware of the arguments for and against vegetarianism, so I see little point in reiterating them.

So what remains is that you actually apply yourself, and see for yourself.

I'm not here to convince you one way or another.

 

[wynn]

When I read this I immediately wondered if you'd met a Christian who actually articulated that. That one should not wonder such things. I am quite sure this would be a frustrating experience, but it is so candid I think it would also be a relief. Rather than, for example, some convoluted explanation that doesn't seem to make sense, but who knows.

Yes, I have actually been told that. But they said it with a greater or lesser degree of anger and displeasure.

Once one is already afraid of eternal damnation, and one's questions are met with anger, one ends up feeling frustrated in ways that I think would otherwise not be common.

I have never spoken to Christians just to chit-chat or have an "informational interview" - it was always about matters of life and death. I don't see how it could be otherwise, given the prospect that one's eternal life or eternal damnation is to be decided in one brief conversation with a true believer.

 

[ricrery]

God gave us free will so we CHOOSE to worship Him. Or not. I have never met a Christian who thinks free will is wrong and I know thousands. God is scared of nothing. Absolutely nothing. He is all-powerful and could strike your ass dead if He wanted. However, he has sent people to try to reach you and that is freaking you the hell out.

I love how you Christians contradict one another with the same fanatic levels. He states being good = God, if that's the case, being good is not reality, it is a concept and not a way of life. God sure doesn't understand that. HAHA! Christians from 2000 years ago were much more self centered around EARTH and HEAVEN, not the MULTIVERSE and HEAVEN. I guess Christianity is a big fat lie for delusional people like you.

Good, decent, born-again Christians don't lie. Not ever. God is not vulnerable. Not in any way. God was not made up by anyone. He is the Great I Am. He always was and always will be.

Oh good is he? Let's see, he is biased in three ways: Women = nothing to men, strike one. Jews = his chosen people, strike two. Misbehaving kids = cut off arm, strike three. Seems like God has the opinion of people from 2000+ years ago. LOL! EPIC FAIL! That alone proves what a bunch of bullshit Christianity is. So is the earth being 7,000 years old, Heaven being atop of earth, and God creating earth. See, in all of those cases, nothing else is mentioned, NOTHING, earth is ALL he created, so he is not omnipotent or the ignorant from long ago made him in their point of view of the universe. Add in these same people believed earth was the center of the universe and all... God is NOT real, I don't think finding flaws is going to help you.

We will never be able to comprehend His awesomeness. No one is damned for being fearful or effiminate.

Oh? Your "Holy Book" says otherwise, don't make bullshit Christians make up every second they lose. The Holy Book > some Christian with his own views. Same Holy Book is about as accurate as firing an arrow at a fly. Effeminate suffer. Fearful suffer. Drunk suffer. EVERYONE SUFFERS. Bring on the hell of being a fanatic to a limited being!

They are damned to Hell for not choosing Jesus Christ/God as Lord and Savior and for not being believers. God's/Jesus' kids go to be with Him in His home, Heaven, when they die. Satan's kids go to be with him in his home, hell, when they die.

Wow! We have to CHOOSE him, idiot God... apparently though, if I left the earth, and went to another planet, he couldn't do shit! WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN xgoogleplex! Hell, God destroyed a mans life to prove Satan wrong, and guess what was wrong there! God is a greedy fuck that is no better than the Satan who actually is worth worshiping, even if neither are real! Why is Satan in the bottom of the earth again (ignorant people didn't know there isn't a bottom!), fail on Christian part! Besides, there is a Multiverse proving God WRONG!