Does God need to exist as a separate entity, or could God exist in the same way as music does?
God and Music
- Thread starter Captain Kremmen
- Start date
Music is a complex collection of air vibrations that stimulate the pleasure center of humans.
Is your question really does 'God' exist as a complex collection of air vibrations that stimulate the pleasure center of humans?
BG 9.4: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.
BG 9.5: And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
In other words nothing exists separate from god, yet god exists separate from everything
Genesis: http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
Say an alien were to visit the earth, and came from a planet where there was no comprehension of music. Would that alien not say the same thing about musicians as non believers say about religious people. That they were deluding themselves.
I think I sort of understand what you're saying. Like how if an entire species were deaf, they wouldn't hear music and they wouldn't think it exists, and perhaps atheists are the same way. But I don't think that's a good comparison as music can be detected as vibrations through the air, whereas God can't really be detected in anything (unless you're one of those who sees existence itself being proof of God).
But I understand the concept, god is to atheists what music is to the deaf.
non sequitur, deaf people have other senses, whereas any hearing man can not sense god with any of his senses.
I agree, I said the same in my post.
Yes deaf people to a certain extent, but I'm sure that many deaf people come to an understanding of music, and without doubt many of them can play musical instruments, and compose it. What I mean is some being whose species does not have music at all. How would they consider what we were doing.
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please clarify, how many senses would such a being have.
why would they not have some kind of sound detection, be it through vibration or other, any species, of any sort would experiment with all there senses as we do even down to enhancing them with recreational drugs.
so they would most likly have some form of sound/vibration entertainment. something they could get a buzz from (pun intended)
sorry I dont see your arguement.
why would they not have some kind of sound detection, be it through vibration or other, any species, of any sort would experiment with all there senses as we do even down to enhancing them with recreational drugs.
so they would most likly have some form of sound/vibration entertainment. something they could get a buzz from (pun intended)
sorry I dont see your arguement.
The aliens can hear perfectly well, but music is not something they understand. When music is played all they hear is a succession of sounds. They can hear that some sounds are of a higher pitch and some lower, and can tell that the sounds are made in a regular manner, but they do not hear music.
Probably not. Regardless of if an alien has a concept of music, sound waves are objectively measurable and MRI scans will objectively show the pleasure center of peoples brains stimulated by it.
In that case, the aliens would accept that the act gave humans pleasure. They would stilll have no idea of what music was like. They might develop theories of what was happening such as the rhythms being related to brainwaves, but the experience of listening to music would always be a mystery to them.
This argument would work better if those aliens came from another universe. But if they are from this universe, it doesn't make sense why they would not be able to detect sound and thus music. The laws of this universe are pretty uniform I'm assuming so they would evolve in some capacity to detect it. Even if they didn't, the fact they can't more likely would signify that your creator isn't their creator so therefore it is a moot point.
on the contrary there are numerous accounts of persons have direct perception of god/transcendence as well as normative descriptions to boot
What the aliens would find is that both vibration and tone make humans feel pleasure. While listening to music wouldn't have the same effect on aliens, I am sure they could translate music into something that gives them pleasure. Regardless why does it matter?
Good question. Possibly the alien analogy is leading us off track.
We do not say when someone is appreciating music that it is just something in their own minds. We don't say to the people listening to it that they are just listening to an ordered set of sounds. We accept that it is something more than that because we can all understand it.
With religion, some people can appreciate it and some can't. The people who can't appreciate it believe that those who can are deluding themselves.
They can see that there is an ordered set of rules and beliefs, but they don't understand it.
As for whether it matters. Probably not.
we been through this numerous times and you have yet to prove anybody has or could have had direct perception, so do shut up and go away.
Interesting variation. There is music that no-one disputes though. If someone was to say they thought Beethoven's 9th was rubbish, you wouldn't accept that as a reasonable point of view. You'd just say that they were not musical enough or mature enough to understand it.