God and Mickey Mouse - is there a difference?

Cris

Cris

In search of Immortality
Valued Senior Member
Is there any difference between God and Mickey Mouse?

No. They are both fictional imaginary characters.

Neither were the result of objective observation or detection before someone used their imagination to create them.

Have fun
Cris
 
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Neither were the result of objective obersation or detection before someone used their imagination to create them.
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Does anyone feel (and please dont shoot me if this was previously discussed) but anyone think that Jesus was an Actual man who walked around and did some of the things that was written. And that a group of people wrote about him and it got twisted through the years? I find that highly likely. Maybe he was a magician or a big phoney, but he fooled the people of those times and now here we are. This should be fun.

Take care :)
 
strgrl,

There are several good books that answer your question in some detail. The best, that I would recommend are -

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S, and
The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty.

You'll find references to both books and some abstracts on the web.

The conclusion is that it seems highly unikely that any such person known as Jesus actually existed.

All the miracle stories of course are pure fiction and were all created at the same time when the Christian religion started to take shape and when it was realized it wasn't acceptable to have a god that didn't perform miracles - and hey presto, appropriate stories were created.

2000 years ago in the Middle East there was significant chaos, political intrigue and a revolutionary atmosphere. There were many would be "saviors" vying to lead the people to freedom from the tyranny of the times. At the same time the old Roman gods were beginning to be seen as impotent. Add to that the usual overwhelming superstitions of the time and you have all the ingredients needed to begin a new religion.

Jesus is purely a fictional character that embodies all the essential properties of an attractive heroic figure. Really just a good storyline for a successful Hollywood movie, if the story had been written in modern times.

Hope that helps.
Cris
 
Yes, it does. Thanks. I never really looked into it fearing what others would think. Do you know how Im looked at by my family for even questioning God? Its really hard to express my opinion. Of course my grandmother doesnt believe in God but that didnt have any influence on me growing up. I was taught that there was only 1 god and I would burn in hell for eternity. Stuff like that scares the hell out of you when your a kid.

Is it true that 95% of the people on this world believe in some sort of higher power? Thats an awfully lot of people. I heard that figure some time ago and wonder if its still the same.

Take care :)
 
strgrl,

Stuff like that scares the hell out of you when your a kid.
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Yes I know. And all based on mythology and no factual basis – very frustrating that such things happen.

Is it true that 95% of the people on this world believe in some sort of higher power? Thats an awfully lot of people. I heard that figure some time ago and wonder if its still the same.
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It various by country, Britain and Sweden are nearer 40%, The USA is in the 80s but South America I think is in the 90s, and considered the most superstitious area in the world.

But remember most people do not think for themselves and are quite happy to follow traditions and opinions of their leaders. Show them a mass produced alternative and they will easily change their minds. Although overcoming early deep indoctrination might be an issue.

Remember also that a few hundred years ago the majority of the people on the planet believed the world was flat. Most people tend to believe what the current authority tells them. Truth is not determined by a majority vote. Democracy is used to achieve what people want and not necessary what is the best or right.

Other statistics show that religious beliefs among scientists are at around 10%, but beliefs among the less well-educated show a significantly higher value. Do you think maybe there is a link between religion and ignorance?

Take care
Cris
 
strgrl,

I never really looked into it fearing what others would think. Do you know how Im looked at by my family for even questioning God? Its really hard to express my opinion.
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The best advice I could give, if you were to consider me worthy to give such advice, would be to arm yourself with knowledge and the ability to think logically.

The first book you should read is “Atheism - The case Against God by George H Smith”. Here is the Amazon.com link –

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...1662054/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-6035264-1129504

And then remain humble, polite, and informed. Be able to recognize baseless assertions and very politely ask such people to prove their case, and watch for the lack of evidence. But always remember that because you might be in the minority that in no way means you are in the wrong.

Knowledge will give you the ammunition to overcome the fear of what other people might think, but the ability to use reason and logic is the weapon you must use to face those fears.

IMHO of course.

Take care
Cris
 
Actually, Cris, there is a difference.

Nobody has ever been killed in the name of Mickey Mouse. ;)
 
Xev,

Nobody has ever been killed in the name of Mickey Mouse.
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And therein lies the problem - the result of confusing fiction with truth.

Cris

PS. Did you know that an early MM cratoon was given an X rating and considered unsuitable for children?
 
Cris:
And therein lies the problem - the result of confusing fiction with truth.
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More a problem with allowing such fiction to gain power.

PS. Did you know that an early MM cratoon was given an X rating and considered unsuitable for children?
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I had no idea. I also heard that Disney was an athiest - have you ever heard that before?
 
There is a difference. We KNOW that mickey mouse does not exist. Some of us THINK that god does not exist. Some of us THINK that god does exist. But none of us know. We only believe.

What is my point? I dunno just answering the question :).
fc
 
Do you think maybe there is a link between religion and ignorance?
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Definitely. I always have. Well, since I started learning about Evolution and all. Although my inlaws and aunt are pretty smart - and they believe in God. Religiously. But I believe they stay away from Science on purpose. Example: I tried to get my husband to read a article on Evolution and he totally dismissed it - without even reading it! "Oh, thats hogwash!" And one time I went to church where the preacher was talking about evolution and laughing about it - saying "Oh yeah, we came from monkeys and before that we a piece of fungus for a million years" - See, he didnt even know the facts and he had a college degree. So, I think they just dont want to learn, maybe their afraid they'll find out something they dont want to(?).

Its funny when I ask a good friend why they believe in god - the look on their face is just so funny. I'm always asking questions like "If everything is predermined - what is the purpose of the people going to hell here for?" or "Why is so many children abused" or "What is the purpose of all this". The only response I get is "Well Ill just ask god when I get there". I get so friggin upset! And then my in-laws look at me like Im the anti-christ because I dont think the same. Its pretty tough. And Im extremely open minded - I wont completely dismiss that there just might be a god 100% - but come on - Shouldnt there be a least 1 shred of evidence to prove him?

Take care:)
 
Just my two cents.

I myself believe there is a link between ignorance and the belief in a higher power. It's kinda funny though. If I've known someone for years, and then they mention that they believe in God, the first thing I say is, "Oh, I thought you were smarter than that..." But whenever someone I've known finds out I don't believe in God, the first thing they say is, "Oh, I thought you were smarter than that..." I just think that's amusing. :)

I do have to say, there is a startlingly high number of God believers out there. It's amazing what people will accept with no evidence. People believe what their parents believe, it's hard to break that cycle.
 
Xev,

Looks like Walt kept his beliefs to himself. However his funeral was entirely secular.

Looks like he was indeed an atheist.

And no I didn't know that. Thanks.

I guess if you were going to create a successful business that involves 'the family' in a country where Christianity is dominant then to broadcast your atheist viewpoint would clearly be anti-productive. Looks like he was a good businessman and kept his mouth shut.

Cris
 
Like the new sig, *stRgrL*.

"Its funny when I ask a good friend why they believe in god - the look on their face is just so funny. I'm always asking questions like "If everything is predermined - what is the purpose of the people going to hell here for?" or "Why is so many children abused" or "What is the purpose of all this"."

Yep.

"I understand" Paneloux said in a low voice. "That sort of thing is revolting because it passes our human understanding. But perhaps we should love what we do not understand."
Rieux straightened up slowly. He gazed at Paneloux, summoning to his gaze all the strength and fervor he could muster against his weariness. Then he shook his head.
"No, Father. I've a very different idea of love. And until my dying day I shall refuse to love a scheme of things in which small children are put to torture."
A shade of disquietiude crossed the priest's face. "Ah, Doctor," he said sadly, "I've just realized what is meant by 'grace'."
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--Albert Camus, the Plauge, pg 202-03.*

FadingCaptain:
"There is a difference. We KNOW that mickey mouse does not exist. Some of us THINK that god does not exist. Some of us THINK that god does exist. But none of us know. We only believe. "

How do we know that Mickey Mouse dosen't exist?

*(A bit of background - it's a novel. Rieux is a doctor, combatting an outbreak of bubonic plauge. He is returning from the deathbed of one of his patients, a ten year old boy who died after a long and painfull struggle with the disease. Paneloux is a Roman Catholic priest who went to give last rights.)

Edit to respond to Cris:

Thanks, it's rather amusing, because the fundies hate Disney corperation for giving their gay employess domestic partner benefits.
 
fading,

We KNOW that mickey mouse does not exist.
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Do we? Are you sure there isn’t some obscure corner of the universe where a cartoon character called Mickey Mouse is a real being?

Some of us THINK that god does not exist. Some of us THINK that god does exist. But none of us know. We only believe.
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None of us know because there is no evidence, right?

We know that MM does not exist because we understand the movie-making process and how the illusion was developed.

My point is that the idea of MM came from imagination and not from observation of a real MM.

In exactly the same way the idea of God also came from human imagination and not from actual observation.

There is no more reason to believe that God is real in the same way that no one believes that Mickey is real. They were both derived by the same imaginative process.

God might exist in the same way as Mickey might exist – we can’t prove there isn’t some obscure corner of the universe where imaginative fictional characters might exist. But the probability seems so small that for all practical purposes we can dismiss such an idea.

Cris
 
strgrl,
"coming out" so to speak as an atheist/agnostic/whatever can be so difficult. when i "came out" a couple years ago it was during vacation(perhaps not the best time) and i spent all night crying and arguing with my family. My mom had a very hard time with it, she still does.

anyway, i'm glad you are openly talking about these things with friends and family...it feels so much better than bottling it all up inside!

xev,
"How do we know that Mickey Mouse dosen't exist? "
hmmm well i know what you are getting at. what is the difference between believing and knowing? I would say that ample proof in the form of evidence could be presented to confirm tha mickey mouse doesnt exist(documents indicating he is a cartoon, etc.) I would say there is not ample evidence proving god does not exist. Of course, there is even fewer (ok none actually) evidence indicating that he does exist. Please feel free to post what you think is proof that god does not exist...

fc
 
Xev,

Thanks, it's rather amusing, because the fundies hate Disney corperation for giving their gay employess domestic partner benefits.
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Yup I saw those references as well.

So what we have is religion fighting a large corporation for showing tolerance and helping minorities. Isn’t that bigotry and hypocrisy? Sigh!

Cris
 
cris,
I agree with you but on one small final point:
"But the probability seems so small that for all practical purposes we can dismiss such an idea. "

I guess that's what differentiates a hardcore atheist and an atheist with agnostic tendencies hehe. I do not think we should dismiss the idea but I agree that the possibility is remote.

fc
 
Cris: Bigoted religious people? Say it ain't so, Cris, say it ain't so!

FadingCaptain:
hmmm well i know what you are getting at. what is the difference between believing and knowing? I would say that ample proof in the form of evidence could be presented to confirm tha mickey mouse doesnt exist(documents indicating he is a cartoon, etc.) I would say there is not ample evidence proving god does not exist. Of course, there is even fewer (ok none actually) evidence indicating that he does exist. Please feel free to post what you think is proof that god does not exist...
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Yeah, well, those documents are a lie of the devil, you little heathen! :p

Seriously, Disney films with MM = Bible/Q'ran/Talmud/Gita.....

Maybe those films are just revalations of Mickey Mouse!

So, there's really not much difference.
 
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