God absurditys

doom:

If there is a god, by definition he could not have been created, so he would have to have existed for an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of time would have past before he decided to create the universe.
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Hey doom, I am 100% on your side; however, your argument
seems to have a flaw. Assuming a life form that some call 'God'
does exist, why would it have to be limited by a physical
dimension that WE exist in (4th more specifically... aka: time)?
If 'God' created 'time' then the implication is that it exists outside
of the very concept (basically a different reality than ours).

-CC
 
Also, since God exists outside of time, then He would perceive our entire past and future as a static whole, rather than as a dynamic progression like we do. Therefore God could not have simply set us in motion when he initially created us, but rather He must have created our whole timeline in his image. This brings up the argument against free will. How can free will exist in a world, from which God's eyes, appears as a static whole, already created in His image?
 
TRUTHSEEKER:
By what you said, you are not 100% in doom's side
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It seems like doom is simply trying to explore the reality that
the concept of 'God' he is referring to simply does not exist. The
very idea that 'God' does not exist is where I am 100% on his
side (unless I mis-interpreted something he said). I only brought
up the argument flaw because I hate to see people come to the
correct conclusions for the wrong reasons.


MATNAY:
Also, since God exists outside of time, then He would perceive our entire past and future as a static whole, rather than as a
dynamic progression like we do.
Click to expand...

Assuming that 'God' existed outside of the dimensions that make
up our reality, how could we possibly conclude how he would perceive things?


Thanks,

-CC
 
matnay,

Also, since God exists outside of time, then He would perceive our entire past and future as a static whole, rather than as a dynamic progression like we do. Therefore God could not have simply set us in motion when he initially created us, but rather He must have created our whole timeline in his image. This brings up the argument against free will. How can free will exist in a world, from which God's eyes, appears as a static whole, already created in His image?
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He gave us power to create our own little story. He created the whole movie, but He gave us free will to decide what we do with it.


Crunchy Cat,

It seems like doom is simply trying to explore the reality that
the concept of 'God' he is referring to simply does not exist. The
very idea that 'God' does not exist is where I am 100% on his
side (unless I mis-interpreted something he said). I only brought
up the argument flaw because I hate to see people come to the
correct conclusions for the wrong reasons.
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Your argument does not prove it either...
 
Crunchy Cat,

Assuming that 'God' existed outside of the dimensions that make up our reality, how could we possibly conclude how he would perceive things?

We can't. But we CAN conclude what He would NOT perceive. And to perceive our 4th demension(time) as an ever-growing progression would limit God's field of view, so to speak. And as we all know, God's field of view is limitless and so He must see our entire timeline as a whole(not moving).
 
TruthSeeker

Your argument does not prove it either...
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When did I claim it did? BTW, it's a logical impossibility to prove
that something does not exist when there is no proof it exists
in the first place.

Thanks,

-CC
 
Crunchy,

The very idea that 'God' does not exist is where I am 100% on his side (unless I mis-interpreted something he said). I only brought up the argument flaw because I hate to see people come to the correct conclusions for the wrong reasons.
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Does that answer your question?
 
Matnay

We can't. But we CAN conclude what He would NOT perceive. And to perceive our 4th demension(time) as an ever-growing progression would limit God's field of view, so to speak. And as we all know, God's field of view is limitless and so He must see our entire timeline as a whole(not moving).
Click to expand...

Hi, I don't understand how it can be concluded that he would
not 'perceive'? Certainly the proposition is a hypothesis but we
have no way of knowing if our concept of 'perception' applies
to 'God' or not. Yes, I acknowledge that 'God's *everything* is
supposed to be limitless, but to state how he 'sees' our timeline
(as a whole, in parts, all of the above, or via some concept that doesn't exist for us) seems presumptous no?

Thanks,

-CC
 
Yes, I acknowledge that 'God's *everything* is supposed to be limitless, but to state how he 'sees' our timeline
(as a whole, in parts, all of the above, or via some concept that doesn't exist for us) seems presumptous no?

I understand what you are saying. But I'm generalizing, not specifying. If God only saw our timeline part by part, in the same order and same time that we do, then that would be a restriction for Him. God has no restrictions, so he must be able to see the whole thing. And a timeline as a whole does not move. It is static like a string laid across the floor.
 
TruthSeeker

Does that answer your question?
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Yep. It points out that you may have mis-understood something
along the way. I'll explain by pointing out relevant arguments and
assertions.

Argument 'A': Doom tried to argue that the idea of 'God' existing
was contradicted by the limits of our reality.
Argument 'B': I argued that Doom's argument was flawed.
Assertion 'A': I stated that I am in agreement with doom that
'God' does not exist.
Argument 'C': You argued that my argument did not prove that
'God' does not exist.

First and formost the only 'argument' I made was Argument 'B'
which makes no proof claims. When I asked about it you pointed
out Assertion 'A' as being my 'argument. Unfortunately its the
wrong concept. Does this make more sense?

-CC
 
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matnay

If God only saw our timeline part by part, in the same order and same time that we do, then that would be a restriction for Him. God has no restrictions, so he must be able to see the whole thing. And a timeline as a whole does not move. It is static like a string laid across the floor.
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Hi, parhaps that 'part by part' entry didn't belong there :). My
bad. The timeline; however, may not be static. It could
conceivably be in constant flux due to continual modifications,
undiscovered behaviors of physics, or any number other reasons.
Perhaps it doesn't even make sense for 'God' to be utilizing time
to 'see' things? He may simply 'know' without having to 'see'?
I think what I am seeing here is that it may simply be impossibe
to predict how a life form with no limitations would do things
unless that life form told you its choices specifically :)

Thanks,

-CC
 
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