God absurditys

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doom

Registered Senior Member
TIME:
If there is a god, by definition he could not have been created, so he would have to have existed for an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of time would have past before he decided to create the universe. Obviously this whole situation is absurd. The idea that a god can exist without time is also absurd.


He exists without physical existence,non biological,no protons,atoms etc,supposedly created the universe,souls,being able to influence the future via miracles and through human minds.

The christian god is fanatical about Homo Sapiens believing in his existence without a shred of evidence. This is called faith. Those that don't believe in his existence are punished by being denied access into heaven and therefore going to hell. And during the inquisitions, christians would send these disbelievers to hell early, often by means of burning at the stake. (In my readings the number of people murdered for being heretics ranges from two to seven million.)

He thought of everything that exists in this universe, however being perfectly good and holy he did not of course think of earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, droughts, tornadoes, mutations, war, leprosy, cancer, aids, rape, child abuse, serial killers, pollution, etc.

Obviously he can prevent all this,cos he created it,whos him?
he?she? it?
how could he/it? have had sex without a body,hes not got a body,cos he would have existed before atoms time,molecules etcwas there a female one? asexual?
built himself?

So it goes:
Once upon a time a god decided to create himself. He then conceived of, and then created time, so that once upon a time he could create himself. Time passed and God was bored, so he thought of a universe. He thought of energy, quarks and leptons and forces and the resultant elements, stars, planets, molecules, chemistry, genetics and life and man and machines.

Yet earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, droughts, tornadoes, mutations, war, leprosy, cancer, aids, rape, child abuse, serial killers, pollution, etc.

slipped his mind????(does he think?)but can see into the future and influence it!

errrrr
 
jesus absurd

How does something non biological have a son? What do they mean by "gave his only son"? Jesus supposedly still exists, hanging out up there in heaven with God. You could only say he gave his only son, if Jesus no longer existed!!!

if you say jesus still exists it is a paradox.

And dying,dying for our sins or whatever
I don't actually consider it dying, if you are going to be resurrected a few days later,how exactly do you die if you are not mortal in the first place,of coarse he did die cos he was mortal
 
God created man in his own image, Jesus is God's word that became flesh. Our ideas of "human", "son" and "biological" are derived from God's creation. God does not exist on human terms, humans exist on God's terms, and according to definitions that He initiated. In a sense we inherited our humanity from Jesus.

Gave us (the world) His only son. He was completely mortal and human because he was born in the biological way. He died under our own laws - for the same reason that you are condemning him even now: that he presumed to be the son of God even though everybody new he was human.

God resurrected Jesus in the Spirit - that same Spirit that was given to his followers. Jesus did not rise himself up, and neither can we. Because Jesus was resurrected, we will also be resurrected. He carried all the punishment that we would have received.
 
Yes the problematic question who created god?

There is the whole paradox of creation, which kind of rules out classical creation, even before you start arguing over evidence and creation vs evolution. Whats not argued on here is the basic philosophical reasoning, which kind of makes or breaks anything as far as truth.

Ok universe the pops into existence for any reason, now lets see is god and emergent property of the universe, that is, is he a integral part of the universe and important in its functioning?

Is he external to the universe? Like a programmer sitting watching his creation running on some kind of computer? This requires that god is not a super-omnipotent being, as he has to have a simulation with 'laws of physics' to govern everything as he can't possibly control everything at once.

Does god not exist yet, but lifeforms in the universe eventually will merge become god, which will then in turn bring meaning to the universe?

The laws the universe operates by appears to be more akin to a simulation running on a computer.
For the beings inside the sim, there is no greater reality as they have no existence other than electronic pulses, but for them everything is real.

A nerd is fiddling with his software, its running a virtual universe, in which a virtual being is going about its existence.
the pops nerd materialises before the virtual being, and says, you don't exist, your a figment of my imagination or a simulation.

Being laughs, kicks a rock near his foot and says "I refute thus" .....

hmm

Thus, i argue, there must be deeper mechanics underneath our reality going on that we cannot possibly begin to imagine (er... without correct programming).

I'm not talking crazy here, I'm not making any statements that aren't in someway reasonable or realistic... (well trying to)
thoughts anyone?
 
...as he can't possibly control everything at once.
Why not?

Thus, i argue, there must be deeper mechanics underneath our reality going on that we cannot possibly begin to imagine (er... without correct programming).
Yes, there are deeper mechanics - we need extremely complicated mathematics and physics to explain even what we can see. Fortunately we don't have to put God in a test-tube and be able to analyse Him bit by bit to know He exists. We know this on another level than we know anything else - on a spiritual level. History itself is the only record we have of what happened, and unfortunately history isn't a very exact science. What Christians believe is based on events that have been preserved and remembered, and witnessed in our own lives. Everything has its own nature, and it's no different with our spiritual nature. The laws of the unverse are like fabric. Physically, we are part of the physical world, and spiritually we are part of the spiritual world. The physical comes first, and the spiritual follows.
 
can i ask a question about God (note the capital).

I heard that there's somethig about God unleashing his fury if the world is not faithful... is that true?
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
God created man in his own image, Jesus is God's word that became flesh. Our ideas of "human", "son" and "biological" are derived from God's creation. God does not exist on human terms, humans exist on God's terms, and according to definitions that He initiated. In a sense we inherited our humanity from Jesus.

Gave us (the world) His only son. He was completely mortal and human because he was born in the biological way. He died under our own laws - for the same reason that you are condemning him even now: that he presumed to be the son of God even though everybody new he was human.

God resurrected Jesus in the Spirit - that same Spirit that was given to his followers. Jesus did not rise himself up, and neither can we. Because Jesus was resurrected, we will also be resurrected. He carried all the punishment that we would have received.
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Whos man? us?
what about aliens,cant rule them out,dont know they exist but theres a little more probability than god existing.

And what we refer to is whats around us,jesus was made of something we could see,yet god isnt,and so how do you produce something we can see out of something which is not connected to the physical infrastructure of this universes laws,of which god supposedly created,if he can break the laws of our physics why not get rid of disease,famine,war and so on,cos all these things constitute a flawed world he created,if he has already demonstrated above physics ability then he can and could do it all the time.

If you got infinate time,that means you exist without any material,as such whatever intelligence you do have would see only infinity,and youd have to exist in infinity before you could decide to do something,but if that were the case it means you have already done it.

Thats why infinity is the snake eating its own tail.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
...as he can't possibly control everything at once.
Why not?

Thus, i argue, there must be deeper mechanics underneath our reality going on that we cannot possibly begin to imagine (er... without correct programming).
Yes, there are deeper mechanics - we need extremely complicated mathematics and physics to explain even what we can see. Fortunately we don't have to put God in a test-tube and be able to analyse Him bit by bit to know He exists. We know this on another level than we know anything else - on a spiritual level. History itself is the only record we have of what happened, and unfortunately history isn't a very exact science. What Christians believe is based on events that have been preserved and remembered, and witnessed in our own lives. Everything has its own nature, and it's no different with our spiritual nature. The laws of the unverse are like fabric. Physically, we are part of the physical world, and spiritually we are part of the spiritual world. The physical comes first, and the spiritual follows.
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History is exact in that there are left overs of it,
compared to god,theres no left over history of the proof of god
other than mans desire to make an easy assumption on how the universe was created.

The universe is 15-20 billion years old,god had eternity before that,yet waits an eternity + 15 billion years before homo sapiens exist inside it???
i mean comon!
 
there's something else i thikn lotsa ppl miss out on.
Some evidence ppl use to support God's existence is that nothing we know could have existed without a creator. But then if we, the trees, the animals, the water, etc. could not exist without creation, why does that not exist for God?

If its so easy to accept that God was never created, why is it so hard to assume the same for the world?
 
God created us. His existence has never been "proven" in general terms in the past, yet people had no trouble believing in God until quite recently, when any knowledge not based on physical evidence became suddenly not good enough. Are scientific facts any use to a suicide-bomb victim? Scientific evidence will not cause people to believe. If God were measurable with a ruler, He wouldn't be God.

But He did not leave us with nothing. Conservatively speaking, and from a single person's perspective, everything one knows should happen in his own lifetime. From birth to death. But seen from the perspecive of creation, the liftime of humanity so to speak, history itself is our diary. God created us only once. Think about it - if you take the story of Noah, God became so disappointed in humannity that He wanted to end it. He could have wiped us out and simply created again, and nobody would have been the wiser. He did not let go of His plan and promises:
Genesis 9
15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."

And according to God's plan of salvation, Jesus came only once, at the appointed time to die, so that everybody before and since could be saved through reconciling with Him. Once was sufficient. The OT was wlready written and well established. And it is because of Jesus that the NT was written. It wasn't coincidence, but it was planned. Even people living with Jesus and seeing his miracles didn't believe, and those were religious people. We have our chance. Our existence has seen its birth, its childhood, its adolescence, and is growing old fast. Jesus will come back before its end, whenever that might be, to finish what God has planned.
 
WeLL, I would suppose that there were, in fact, periods of time during which no man doubted the existence of a paticular deity (very early history). By the way, no Medieval heretic ever claimed not to believe in god. Heretics only claimed that god was not quite what the pious, high and mighty Catholic priests depicted in their doctrine.

As to the current topic of God and Christianity, I entreat all self-styled Christians:
PLease describe your reaction when you die and realize you have worshipped a false god your entire life. You are brusquely informed that the only true religion had flourished and declined centuries before your birth. The brutish, lurid spirits of that alien hell will tell you that the true religion was that of an esoteric sect in the orient. You were wrong . . . you wasted your life . . . and arrived in a fiery oriental pit.

This is just as likely as your possible arrival in heaven. Every god conceived before your own is just as likely as that whom you have so avidly enthroned as the sovereign of the universe.
 
Can I ask a couple of questions here......

How many planets are there in the universe? I have heard the description of Earth as a granule of sand to the Sahara desert.

How many species are there on Earth? again, I have heard that there are between 5million to 30million species on Earth.

So what are the odds of a god singling out Earth from all the planets in the universe and the Human species out of all the species on Earth?

If there is such thing as god I would have thought he would have chosen something else more substantial for a project.

And then we have all different sorts of faiths on this planet, with all their little denominations. We've got a lot of religious stuff happening around this grain of sand of ours haven't we?
 
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I don't understand why people argue over this crap.
If someone needs to believe in a God to feel good than so be it. Why does eveyone think they have to put there noses in everyone's business?? Let them voice their opinion; that's all it is... an opinion.
Has anyone ever thought that the human mind isn't so damned special?? That maybe the human mind isn't so smart?? Has anyone thought that there are things that just can't be expained by a human brain because it isn't so damn smart??
The universe is a damned big place and we won't be able to explain it all and some of the things expained are wrong. It'll be a few years and some new evidence will show up and theories will have to change. (kinda like the egg being bad for you). There will be alot of things that just can't be figured out be the human mind because we just arent that smart of a creature. We can build a nuclear bomb whoopie!!!! that just shows that we can make alot of energy to kill each other instead of finding out how to use it in a safe and good manner. The human race doesn't deserve to live; I accually hope it doesn't because if it does we will just bring down the rest of everything else with us. We are a shitty creature and my OPINION (remember that's all it is..) we are doing more harm than good. And we fight over dumb things that the human mind can't explain....... Is there a God?? who cares?? You'll find out soon enough. take that pent up energy and go do something good. Something like telling your parents that you love them.
 
OC

I don't understand why people argue over this crap.

Well your correct about religion been crap.

go do something good. Something like telling your parents that you love them.

I wish I could mate, but they are both dead.
 
Nobody would have argued about anything if the truth weren't important to them.

I don't believe in God because a church tells me to. I go to church because that's where I learn about and praise God, and come in contact with other believers. A church won't bring you anywhere if your first priority isn't to seek God, unless you're just curious.

New theories have shown up all the time, and religion has always had a place to exist. Actually, as things get increasingly worse and people realize that science or reason doesn't solve humanity's worst problems, religion makes more sense - especially to people in whose lives God really made a difference.

O.C., I though it was Christians who are supposed to be so negative about humanity... that's why we need a saviour. We have no reason just to give up on ourselves if we have hope. The Bible is full of people who were disillusioned with themselves and lost hope - especially David, and he is the one person who features strongly in God's plans. If death is your only hope, you might as well give God a chance. I tell me parent I love them every chance I get, and the have loved each other for the last 45 years. Yes there are a LOT of things that can't be explained - that's why we have science.

Vienna - it only seems like unlikely when you look at it from our perspective outwards. Everything around us is dead - Earth is the only sign of life we have ever been able to detect without any kind of leap of faith. It isn't coincidence that we are 'singled out'. We ARE God's creation, and part of one plan that spans our whole existence and history. Singled-out, as you say. Why do you think it make us less special, and not more? You can figure it both ways - we're are either completely special because we have been created, or very ordinary in such an extraordinary way that we simply 'feel' special, and the whole purpose of life is to become special - whether by technological advancement, natural evolution or pure force of will. Ha.

There are so many faiths, on one hand because some people are earnestly looking for God, and on the other hand because God is being sold as a mass market spiritual consumer product - by evangelists, pop psychologists and occultists - tailormade to fit your every spiritual need or pang of conscience... Not because everybody is stupid. There is always corruption where money is involved, and always money where people are involved. And the human condition is exactly why we need God, why it is important to look for Him.

Redoubtable: Christianity believes in the same God even before history was being recorded. The only God who spans religions, and still stays the same. Jesus was the only religious leader ever to promise eternal life and forgiveness for sins. Nobody else have had that authority. God is the Father of Jesus and humanity, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who led His people out of slavery in Egypt and Babylon, and who is still involved in our lives. Can you show me any other god who has persisted undiminished since ever, and conquered death convincingly? 24,633 Biographically, internally, and externally consistent historical manuscripts would be most persuasive. There's more evidence for the historical reliability of the New Testament than for any 10 pieces of classical literature put together. (The number two book in manuscript authority in all history is the Iliad by Homer, which has 643 manuscripts.) No, religion might not be right for you, but belief certainly can be.

I didn't invent religion, and as get smarter and wiser I, like so many others, grow into it, not out of it. I also want facts, and while I'm doing my research I find more and more that strenghten my belief. Instead of calling me a neanderthal, do a search on Dr. Simon Greenleaf's research for a taste of what I mean.

The problem is our much-feted free will. We cling to our precious freedom even while it drags us under to drown. I think most of humanity outshine Adam and Eve in their quest to become like gods 10 to 1. We should become more human, and I think you'll agree with me.
 
don't trust your brain...

Originally posted by O.C.
Has anyone ever thought that the human mind isn't so damned special?? That maybe the human mind isn't so smart?? Has anyone thought that there are things that just can't be expained by a human brain because it isn't so damn smart??
T
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i thought that the human mind isn't so special...

i thought that the human mind isn't so smart

I personally know that my mind and reasoning is fallible (to a high degree). That is also the reason why I will not accept any authority. If my mind is this fallible then other human minds must surely be equally fallible. The fact that most people don't advertise the fact that they are not that smart, makes me think that their minds are even more fallible than mine. Their brains actually deceived them by making them think they are smart.
What I see is limitations. My brain is shaped by evolution. It is therefore good at certain things, but quite awful in other things. Although we are quite good at math, computers are much better and accurate. Our brain doesn't work like a computer. It's a neural network.
It is also quite clear that some kind of 'religious' experience is hardwired into our brains (a sense of wonder of the rightness of the world or something like that). However, with the knowledge that the brain is a structure with limitations and certain characteristics you should then also conclude that this religious awe might not be based on something real. In short, To have religious feelings doesn't mean that there is something supernatural out there.
However, most people are blissful unaware of the nature of their brain, and as a result they actually believe in god. "It must be true, because I have a gut feeling it is true" or " God is true, because I can feel it".
Yes. Interesting, but meaningless as an argument.

Let's all search the limitations of our brains, and then we might discover that knowing the limitations actually enhances our 'smartness'.
 
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it's not to be brainwashed as a deep experience, it's about
someone touching your soul. Have you ever felt love?
This can be deeper than what goes on in your mind...

look at what Jenyar has said...
 
doom,
If you got infinate time,that means you exist without any material,as such whatever intelligence you do have would see only infinity,and youd have to exist in infinity before you could decide to do something,but if that were the case it means you have already done it.
Click to expand...
I was recently going to post something on the nature of time and its relation with the spiritual realm, but since I discovered that as much I look for the Truth as much It gets away from me, than I gave up. Maybe I'm going to post that thread... If i do I will let you know...


stray dog,
You are always poetical... but your name is weird..:p:eek:
Welcome to sciforums... :)
 
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