GMO foods a good thing or bad?

[KilljoyKlown]

The worst thing about GMOs IMO isn't their lack of safety.... I hope some crop will kill everyone that eats them so they might be banished forever.

The worst thing is how they gradually and irreversibly are changing/going to change foods from what humans and their ancestors have co-evolved with for millions of years.

The idea that this semi-random changing of fundamental parts of genes in a plant won't have any detrimental effect on the organisms co-evolved to consume it is bonkers and shows a complete ignorance of and lack of understanding of evolution.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that evolution gave us the brains we have that are very curious about the reality we live in. If we can gain the knowledge to create superior food crops that will enable us to support the population our world has. Why would you hope we fail at it? Are you some kind of religious kook that believes God wants us to live differently?

 

[Read-Only]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that evolution gave us the brains we have that are very curious about the reality we live in. If we can gain the knowledge to create superior food crops that will enable us to support the population our world has. Why would you hope we fail at it? Are you some kind of religious kook that believes God wants us to live differently?

Yeah, plus the fact that he's *completely* ignoring every single advance ever made in technology - because ALL of them were "artificial" in the sense that we didn't have them back in the stone age. Even things like the invention of the plow and antibiotics/antiseptics.

Personally, he appears to be a pretty ignorant person in my opinion. <shrug>

 

[billvon]

The worst thing is how they gradually and irreversibly are changing/going to change foods from what humans and their ancestors have co-evolved with for millions of years.

Yes, they are - and we are adapting along with it. We are adapting to a high-fat, high-calorie diet along with completely new foods (alcohol, refined sugars, trans fats etc.) Ironically, most of which comes from plain ol' unmodified organisms like corn, saccharomyces, beef etc. And that corn looks absolutely nothing like the corn and beef we ate 10,000 years ago.

The idea that this semi-random changing of fundamental parts of genes in a plant won't have any detrimental effect on the organisms co-evolved to consume it is bonkers and shows a complete ignorance of and lack of understanding of evolution.

Agreed. Good thing it's not semi-random (or more accurately, it's a lot less random than the random mutations we used to rely on.)

 

[Gravage]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-seed-companies-control-gm-crop-research

This is why I don't trust what multinational companies, they pay for scientific research in vast majority of cases, only time will tell if gm food are bad, but the main problem how would you know if gm food is bad, if let's say you get the cancer 20 years from now and specifically gm food is directly responsible, since you have also chemistry, pollution and etc, that need to be included in this?

 

[Billy T]

Genetic Modification of what we eat began about 12,000 years ago AND NOW most of what we eat has been greatly modified by man and bears only faint resemblance to "natural foods" as they existed 15,000 and more years ago. Take wheat as an example (although cows, chicken, etc have equally dramatic modified genetics):

Wild einkorn crossed with goat grass to produce emmer (Triticum dicoccoides). This then bred with another goat grass (Aegilops squarrosa) to produce the first strain of durum (pasta) wheat. This secondary hybrid then became re-crossed with some of its parents to give an incestuous offspring with massive ears of starch, an easily removed seed husk and an inability to seed itself. Modern wheat (Triticum aestivum) was born.

The earliest cultivated yields, around 7500 BC were probably a measly 0.25 tonnes per hectare (think 250 kilograms from a field the size of 1.5 football pitches), and stayed that way for thousands of years. As farmers selectively bred strains, yields increased. By the mid- 1800s, yields of 0.74 tonnes/hectare were being harvested. By the 1900s, 2.47 tonnes/hectare were not uncommon and now, 8.4 tonnes/hectare can be had from a decent wheat field.

Few ranting against GM food realize that most of the man-made genetic modification of food was done long before Monsanto etc. even existed. Main difference is now the genetic modification is based on knowledge, not chance and careful selection of the mutation or accidental trans-species crosses.

Modern wheat is so "un-natural" that is can not even reseed its self - it is totally dependant upon man to survive!

 

[typical animal]

yeah this place is full of clueless trolls as I had suspected (billvon being totally wrong imo but at least there's semblance of decent arguments and much better than the other two that replied to my post).

Already being "accused" of being religious, some joke.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

I hope some crop will kill everyone that eats them so they might be banished forever.

You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like that.

 

[Read-Only]

You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like that.

He's lost more than that. By being such a jerk, he's lost ALL credibility and proven himself to be a completely worthless individual. Yuck!

 

[Billy T]

In most cases, it really does not matter what you eat. The digestive process will destroy it (and that included the GM molecules that have "non-natural" DNA & RNA sequences):

Nucleic acids, DNA and RNA, are broken down during the digestive process as well. These compounds consist of polymers of nucleotides and serve as a genetic blueprint for cells. Enzymes in the small intestine, the nucleases, sever the nucleotides of the DNA and RNA into nitrogen bases, sugars and phosphates.

Read more on: "Chemical Changes in Digestion" with Google search.

Note also: stuff in your gut is not really inside your body. It will be broken down into simple molecules that can pass thru the intestine walls. These molecules can be the result of eating GM or non GM foods. - They are all the same, differing only in the small molecules mix, in the end before the digested food enters your body. The gut is very selective in what it lets into the blood stream.

 

[typical animal]

You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like that.

I don't see why, I stated why I think it's the lesser of two evils.

In most cases, it really does not matter what you eat. The digestive process will destroy it (and that included the GM molecules that have "non-natural" DNA & RNA sequences):

Read more on: "Chemical Changes in Digestion" with Google search.

Note also: stuff in your gut is not really inside your body. It will be broken down into simple molecules that can pass thru the intestine walls. These molecules can be the result of eating GM or non GM foods. - They are all the same, differing only in the small molecules mix, in the end before the digested food enters your body. The gut is very selective in what it lets into the blood stream.

Sorry but this is nonsense. Yes it does matter what you eat. Listen to yourself. You can't just eat paper and say "this is all optimal because it will all be broken down chemically anyway in my gut".

I mean if there's anything we've learned over the past half a century about diet it's that yes it does really matter a huge lot what you eat and you are likely to die significantly sooner and be in much worse health if you eat the wrong foods.

 

[billvon]

In most cases, it really does not matter what you eat. The digestive process will destroy it (and that included the GM molecules that have "non-natural" DNA & RNA sequences).

Good thing, too! Otherwise people might have allergies to certain foods (like peanuts) that might make them sick. But because the digestive process destroys all such allergens, there must be no such thing as peanut allergies.

 

[scheherazade]

GMO is definitely about the money, IMO. The greatest concern to me is that seed patents are being allowed and that the majority of those patents are held by one entity. (Do your own research, not to be influenced by the opinion of others.)

Meanwhile, for myself and others who wish to avoid GMO's for whatever reason, philosophical, food sensitivity, conflicted emotion, here is a simple guide with pictures. IMO, people should be allowed to decide what they are putting into their body rather than government and industry making fiduciary decisions without keeping us properly informed.

http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Genetically-Modified-Foods

 

[billvon]

IMO, people should be allowed to decide what they are putting into their body rather than government and industry making fiduciary decisions without keeping us properly informed.

Agreed. It's up to people to decide what they want to eat, not the extremists on either side of the argument.

 

[Billy T]

...Sorry but this is nonsense. Yes it does matter what you eat. Listen to yourself. You can't just eat paper and say "this is all optimal because it will all be broken down chemically anyway in my gut". ...

I was not clear enough, obviously. Of course ingestion of different things, even foods, does result in different decomposition products after digestion is complete.

From context and from text I quoted, you should understand I was stating that it makes essentially no difference the particular codedon sequences in the Nucleic acids, DNA and RNA. (That is the difference between GM and non-GM foods, which is the thread´s subject.) They can be ones in non-GM foods or in GM food, but none of the main foods we eat today still has the DNA and RNA codedon sequences our ancestor ate only 10,000 years ago.

These complex information rich large molecules are just like the types of genes in dogs, chickens, cows etc. - all are all new as are all the food grains etc. All are all new in the last 10,000 years due to man´s interference with the natural gene pools that existed back then. - All these new DNA and RNA sequences are going to be disconnected and then broken down into nitrogen bases, sugars and phosphates in the gut.

 

[typical animal]

I'm afraid I can't discuss anything about evolution with someone who comes up with this:

"it makes essentially no difference the particular codeon sequence in the Nucleic acids, DNA and RNA" (to the phenotype).

There's just no material to work on. Any arguments made in language require some sort of basic preliminary knowledge/understanding of what they mean.

 

[billvon]

From context and from text I quoted, you should understand I was stating that it makes essentially no difference the particular codedon sequences in the Nucleic acids, DNA and RNA . . . . All these new DNA and RNA sequences are going to be disconnected and then broken down into nitrogen bases, sugars and phosphates in the gut.

Are you kidding? Are you seriously saying that eating Botulinum toxin (a protein) is the same as eating any other protein? Your gut can't tell the difference between milk, peanut and wheat proteins? Prion diseases are just "disconnected and then broken down into nitrogen bases, sugars and phosphates in the gut?"

I suspect based on your use of the word "codeon" for codon you haven't done a lot of looking into this area.

 

[Billy T]

Good thing, too! Otherwise people might have allergies to certain foods (like peanuts) that might make them sick. But because the digestive process destroys all such allergens, there must be no such thing as peanut allergies.

Nice try, but no cigar. You are forgetting that true allergies are over reactions of the immune system which is "designed" to attack proteins not part of you that your body comes in contact with (via skin, lungs, tongue, mouth and yes even the gut wall before it has a chance to break these proteins down).

See my last post where I admit I did not make my self clear - From the thread´s subject, my quote related to ONLY DNA and RNA differences in GM and non GM foods the context should have been clear - I was not discussion all items one can eat - just those with man made DNA and RNA sequences and noting that these large information rich molecules do get broken down into relatively tiny molecules and the original sequence is completely destroyed so what products remain are essentially the same for both GM and non-GM foods.

 

[Billy T]

Are you kidding? Are you seriously saying that eating Botulinum toxin (a protein) is the same as eating any other protein? Your gut can't tell the difference between milk, peanut and wheat proteins? Prion diseases are just "disconnected and then broken down into nitrogen bases, sugars and phosphates in the gut?"

No I was speaking of the difference between eating one sequence of codons vs. another - not about any proteins which don´t have any of RNA or DNA sequences found in the much larger molecules that give the instructions for making these different proteins.

If your go to the link of my quote, you will see that the digestions of then main food groups (and specifically proteins) are separately discussed from the section I quoted on the digestion of DNA and RNA containing large molecular compounds. That is where the difference between GM and Non-GM foods is found.

I suspect based on your use of the word "codeon" for codon you haven't done a lot of looking into this area.

No I have read a reasonable amount on DNA and RNA as at times, not now, have owned companies* very active in RNA interference molecule developments; I am however lazy so don´t look up spellings I don´t remember. There are many words whose spellings I am not sure of and I am some what dyslexic also, so not noticing my typing and spelling errors. Thanks for the correction.

Again my comments have ONLY been about the digestion of large RNA & DNA containing molecules - not starches, not proteins, not sugars, etc. I made the mistake of thinking that since that is the thread´s subject and that was clearly the only thing I quoted, it would be clear I was speaking of a very limited set of foods – those the thread is focused on.
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*For example from my old file notes on compaines I followed half a decade ago or owned:
MDRNA, Inc. (NASDAQ: MRNA) announced today positive in vivo efficacy data on its proprietary Unlocked Nucleic Acid (UNA) siRNAs in animal models, demonstrating up to 90% knockdown of ApoB. …
Silence Therapeutics (SLN on London SX at 29.50Lbs?) has developed novel, proprietary short interfering RNA (“siRNA”) molecules, AtuRNAi, which provide a number of advantages over conventional siRNA molecules as they show increased stability against nuclease degradation …
Anylam´s study “GEMINI” has 43 patients treated 5 days, starting 2 days before infection with virus by heavy load on nasal tissue, (42 on placebo) showed that ALN-RSV01 has clear anti-viral activity in humans, as it had in non-primates in 2004, primates in 2006...
For summary: see BIOINFORMATICS siRNA market report, at http://www.gene2drug.com/reports
Or see extracts at: http://news.morningstar.com/news/ViewNews.asp?article=/PR/20061205DCTU083_univ.xml

I found this new field fascinating with great potential and got into one company back in 2004 and it was taken over a few years later by one of the majors with ~150% profit for me. The main limitation of iRNA and siRNA has turned out to be the delivery problem.

 

[billvon]

If your go to the link of my quote, you will see that the digestions of then main food groups (and specifically proteins) are separately discussed from the section I quoted on the digestion of DNA and RNA containing large molecular compounds. That is where the difference between GM and Non-GM foods is found.

Do you think the big issue in GMO foods (any food really) is digesting the actual DNA or RNA, as opposed to digesting the proteins that those genes code for?

 

[Billy T]

Do you think the big issue in GMO foods (any food really) is digesting the actual DNA or RNA, as opposed to digesting the proteins that those genes code for?

No, but the new proteins can easily be tested for toxic effects*. They do not represent some future threat that with a few mutations could be serious, etc. ony the DNA and RNA molecules present that risk. My point was that eating new codon sequences can not make new DNA in the woman´s body so her next child has two heads, etc.

* Even mild effects will show up in the strange production of liver enzimes. Nearly half of the drugs in development that get killed are because of adverse liver reactions they produce.