Gi Jane, if you please

I cannot believe that birch was actually in the military.
We had to hurl grenades and hit a target about 30-35 meters away when I was in basic.

If you really were in the military birch:
Why did you join?
Which military?
Where did you go for basic?
What did you do in basic? Do each other's hair and toenails?
What was your mos?

I'm coming to the conclusion that this thread is predicated on bullshit.
 
Birch, please study some of these:

Geldsetzer, Sabine "Frauen auf Kreuzzügen"; Darmstadt 2003
Frohnhaus, Gabriele (u.a.) "Schwert in Frauenhand - weibliche Bewaffnung"; Essen; 1998
Pernoud, Régine "Frauen zur Zeit der Kreuzzüge", Pfaffenweiler; 1993
Jones, David E. "Women warriors: a history"; Washington; 1997
Elshtain, Jean Bethke "Women and war", New York; 1995
León, Vicki "Elisabeth & Co. - Aufmüpfige Frauen des Mittelalters"; Berlin; 1998
Fraser, Antonia "The Warrior Queens"; New York; 1990

I'm sure you can find these or related works in your mothers tongue, too.
 
http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20955065,00.html

"We were under huge pressure to comply," one Ranger instructor says. "It was very much politicized."

Well, thats an understatement. Look at the reactions here, especially to any notion or reality that women just aint exactly like men. oh yes, the endurance part but just ignore the redundant the outcome when its males.

It seems the women may have been given some slight advantages but dont quote me type of scenario.

Whether this was just preliminary pressure remains to be seen.
 
I cannot believe that birch was actually in the military.
We had to hurl grenades and hit a target about 30-35 meters away when I was in basic.

If you really were in the military birch:
Why did you join?
Which military?
Where did you go for basic?
What did you do in basic? Do each other's hair and toenails?
What was your mos?

I'm coming to the conclusion that this thread is predicated on bullshit.

Im not falling for your slimy tactic to get personal info.

I really doubt you were. You didnt even know what a '70lb pack(rucksack)' is. And if you were in the military, you would know the standards are different (pt) except for combat which they just now opened. How could you not know that? Were you in the military in a bubble? And one who has served in the military would not likely say 'did you do hair/nails' through basic because you would be familiar with female platoons during basic or sometime during service.

But whats really telling is the very obvious but consistent evasive focus on me in this thread simply because you bizarrely have a problem with the truth. And it was just something pretty minor or sober matter of fact obvious. At least to most military personnel as they would know just as well why there would be less women. Unlike you people who are perplexed as to why its not equal between men/women physically. most vets or military personnel would not react like the majority here because they know how hard these courses are and they have worked with both male/ female military personnel and the military to know why.

Especially the 'predicated on bullshit' because i didnt start this thread and basically my jist was that there wont be many women based on current criteria. A vet or active duty member would tend to react more soberly to this observation not surprised or even that upset. Because its simply aka fuking obvious.
 
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http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20955065,00.html



Well, thats an understatement. Look at the reactions here, especially to any notion or reality that women just aint exactly like men. oh yes, the endurance part but just ignore the redundant the outcome when its males.

It seems the women may have been given some slight advantages but dont quote me type of scenario.

Whether this was just preliminary pressure remains to be seen.
There is nothing to substantiate the claims made in the People Magazine link. For example, the article states the following:

Once in the school they were allowed to repeat key parts – like patrols – while special consideration was not given to the men.

The reality is that recycling through "key parts" is also given to men and have been for a long time.

If student performs successfully, but suffers an injury that keeps him from finishing, he or she may be medically recycled (med recycle) at the discretion of either the battalion or the Ranger Training Brigade commander; the student will be given an opportunity to heal and finish the course with the next class. Students recycled in the first phase are temporarily assigned to Vaughn's Platoon (informally known as the "Gulag" to Ranger students). Recycled students typically receive classes on Ranger School tasks and perform a variety of general tasks for their respective Ranger Training Battalion. While marking time at Ranger School is not always pleasant, those who have been recycled typically perform well when reinserted back into the course, with pass rates well over 80%.

Students can also be recycled for a variety of other reasons, including failing their patrol evaluations, peer evaluation, collecting 3 or more bad spot reports in a phase, or receiving a Serious Observation Report (SOR). Students may receive SORs for actions including, but not limited to, negligent discharges, safety violations involving demolitions or mountaineering, not looking through their sights while firing, or throwing away ammunition to lighten their load while on patrol. If a student fails a phase twice for the same reason (patrols, peers, etc.) he or she will usually be dropped from the course, but may possibly be offered a "day one restart," and will restart on Day 1 of the next Ranger School class. In rare cases, those assessed of honor violations (lying, cheating, stealing) and SORs may be offered a day one restart as opposed to being dropped from the course.

Ergo, the claim in the article is false and misleading. Here is another false and misleading statement from the People Magazine article you linked:

Women were first sent to a special two-week training in January to get them ready for the school, which didn't start until April 20. Once there they were allowed to repeat the program until they passed – while men were held to a strict pass/fail standard.

Afterward they spent months in a special platoon at Fort Benning getting, among other things, nutritional counseling and full-time training with a Ranger.


How nefarious and unfair...:rolleyes:

The training, the so called "special" courses and training these women were allegedly on is called the Army National Guard’s Ranger Training Assessment Course. Which all who wish to undergo the Ranger training course, must complete in the lead up to Ranger school. Funny that, huh? But the interesting thing about that statement that they were allowed to keep going until they passed is that it is wrong. The women opted to continue with the training, even though they failed. They knew they weren't getting in, but they chose to continue with the training anyway. They didn't drop out.

So much for those advantages, huh? In other words, they did not get any special or different advantage to the men who were completing the same course.

And really, don't you love unnamed sources and instructors who are desperate to keep the male bastion solely male? The articles I linked.. No one is hiding their name and it isn't a gossip magazine like People Magazine.

Come on Birch, you can do better than People Magazine that is full of misleading statements, surely?
 
. . . basically my jist was that there wont be many women based on current criteria.
No one would have disagreed with that statement, which you really didn't make. It's the other unnecessary BS you put in your posts that caused this thread to go into the crapper.
 
I really dont know what the confusion here is. There is a lot of irrational reactions or responses. What other countries call combat arms and their standards may differ.

Infantry units (at least in the us) must be able to handle very heavy equipment and heavy weapons by themselves. They have to carry this with them. Very few women can carry very heavy loads for long distances or handle large weapons. Ask any military personnel that ever lead road marches. This is the physical limitations. Thats why they are called 'grunts'. There are women who can do this but few. But with technology and how warfare is fought evolves or changes, this may be less an impediment.

Not a single female has yet to pass usmc infantry officer course but three graduated ranger and the next cycle not a single female got passed the first phase.

Maybe the standards are too high or neednt be but the reason why the us military is the best in the world is advanced technology as the main component and very high standards for elite and combat positions.
 
I really dont know what the confusion here is. There is a lot of irrational reactions or responses.
I think we all agree that most of your responses are irrational.
Infantry units (at least in the us) must be able to handle very heavy equipment and heavy weapons by themselves. They have to carry this with them. Very few women can carry very heavy loads for long distances or handle large weapons.
Nobody disagrees with this. What we disagree with is your seeming claims that men naturally do not need training to handle these loads and that women cannot be trained to handle these loads. You also seem ignorant of the many social factors that might lead more men than women to the kind of training that might prepare them for the military before they reach basic training.

Maybe the standards are too high or neednt be but the reason why the us military is the best in the world is advanced technology as the main component and very high standards for elite and combat positions.
The standards might also be skewed or interpreted in such a way as to be harder for women. The USA also has a history of doing this in schools and places of employment.
 
No one would have disagreed with that statement, which you really didn't make. It's the other unnecessary BS you put in your posts that caused this thread to go into the crapper.

You are all blatant liars because now you got your head out of the clouds and dont want to take any responsibility for your own equally ignorant or petulant statements. To the point of outright hostility and being incensed at acknowledging gender physiology differences. This was evident with the insults and other marginal excuses, evasions and examples.

One of the first posts i made was that very few women would be able to handle infantry tasks/position. Pretty obvious to most sane or reasonable people but not here with the uber liberals.

Any intelligent person or with any common sense would have been able to know what i was talking about no matter what my personal opinions are.

Even when i explained why and posted links from the military itself the denial continued because this is an extremely liberal forum.
 
I think we all agree that most of your responses are irrational.

Nobody disagrees with this. What we disagree with is your seeming claims that men naturally do not need training to handle these loads and that women cannot be trained to handle these loads. You also seem ignorant of the many social factors that might lead more men than women to the kind of training that might prepare them for the military before they reach basic training.


The standards might also be skewed or interpreted in such a way as to be harder for women. The USA also has a history of doing this in schools and places of employment.

Uh no, my responses have not been irrational. They are on point.

And again, your view is irrational and you are putting words in my mouth.

I never said men dont need training. And anyone with common sense would have already figured that out but i suppose this point is really hard to understand for some odd reason.

The point was most women just dont qualify compared to men even with training. And its not really me, this is evident by general physiology in other areas related to gender from sports, martial arts etc. Exceptions aside. This is why they dont pit women against men as they would be at a general disadvantage.

And here im having to repeat this again and you are just making liberals look extremely stupid.
 
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Your responses were never on point - you've only been making arguments in your own head.
 
Uh no, my responses have not been irrational. They are on point.

And again, your view is irrational and you are putting words in my mouth.

I never said men dont need training. And anyone with common sense would have already figured that out but i suppose this point is really hard to understand for some odd reason.

The point was most women just dont qualify compared to men even with training. And its not really me, this is evident by general physiology in other areas related to gender from sports, martial arts etc. Exceptions aside. This is why they dont pit women against men as they would be at a general disadvantage.

And here im having to repeat this again and you are just making liberals look extremely stupid.
lets see you made a strawman argument in your initial post got called on it and have been throwing a temper tantrum ever since that no one will accept your strawman argument. which is irrational. still a liar still sexist
 
You could look at this from several angles including socially and politically.

Why should families only send their sons off to war? Thats harrowing enough for parents. People should have to send their daughters too. That part is equality.

The 51% female gender of the population is untapped for combat.

And especially if they are capable and that is what their choice job is, why stop them? Something in them is calling them in that direction.

Also, it does make a progressive positive movement as well as statement that no field or position should be based on gender and it allows people to develop skills, abilities or think in a new way they otherwise wouldnt.

If fish didnt take to water, they wouldnt have fins. If birds didnt take to air, they wouldnt have wings. If you dont try or are not allowed to push yourself in a certain direction, you will never develop abilities in that direction.
 
lets see you made a strawman argument in your initial post got called on it and have been throwing a temper tantrum ever since that no one will accept your strawman argument. which is irrational. still a liar still sexist

Its interesting that with all the insults hurled at me and that im wrong, i am the only one who has contributed any worthwhile or thoughtful posts on the subject.

You dont think people know all these replies to focus on me, insult or pick is also a lame cover for the fact you all have no fuking idea what you are talking about?? So you fill your posts in with nitpicking at mine. Its very, very obvious.

And anyone who is reading this thread with a brain cell will see that. Sorry, your continued temper tantrum AND that you, among several others, contributed nothing realistic but insults.
 
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And lied about being in the military. :rolleyes:

Because you are psychic right?

Or you dont read people well but neither is anyone elses judgement here that sound either.

You are all off the mark because i am a vet.

You people are kind of strange. None of you know anything about the military or very little but you have the nerve to accuse the actual veteran of not having been in the military. You people contributed nothing at all or it was totally out in left field.

Thats extremely assbackwards.
 
The lady doth protest too much, .....(pause)...methinks.
(Or: The more popular misquoted version---------Methinks the lady doth protest too much.)
 
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