Get your atheism fuel here......

V

venomx

Registered Senior Member
Its rather funny watching the usual religion vs science banter on here... amusing to get involved even. Theres some really solid arugments for evolution, and all religion can do these day is blow smoke and make lots of noise.

Rarely does one have a personal life experience that kind of drives home reality......

Its funny, my day job as a programmer I get to work on interesting projects that USE evolution.

To make more effcient programs rather than intellegently designing them which is exhaustive and time consuming we use a system of evolution. I got to work on a controller for a factory robotic arm, and more reccently a intellegent clustered web server, with many more 'lunch hour' projects too.
We'd use the basic principals of, natural selection - survival of the fitest, mutation also exergy and entropy.
The initial programs are set in motion, and multiply depending on sucess. The programs worse at their tasks and reacting to unpredictable sitations are culled, and the more sucessful get to 'have sex' with other programs to share their genetic learning.

We end up with something that WE didn't program and WE didn't create, quite often something far far more complex than we ever thought of, usually with features we never intended to program. All we did was set some initial values and let it all happen...

Evolution in a nutshell......
 
All we did was set some initial values and let it all happen...

Evolution in a nutshell......

==================


You had to "have" certain materials to begin with though, didn't you...?

Only God can create something from nothing.
Satan is equal to God in amost every way.....except he can't create something from nothing.
This is what he told Eve, how to be a god and create life through sex, he has taken what God has created and changed it, or perverted it into another form, thats all he can do.
This includes mankind under his influence.
This world today has become "Satan's Eden"
He has had 6,000 years to design it.
It is the "world", which has been pulled over your eye's.
You were born a slave,...... born into the slavery of sin, which is unbelief.
Only through the revelation of Jesus Christ, can you be healed of this unbelief and come to realize your full potential as a son or daughter of God.
Jesus said; "He that I set free, is free indeed."
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Only God can create something from nothing.
We've told you before, and I'll tell you again. This isn't true. There is no reason to think that only your God has this ability, and many reasons to think that it is the nature of the universe.

Jesus said; "He that I set free, is free indeed."
God said; "He that believe blindy, is blind indeed." He told me this last night... honest.
 
Science does not claim that the universe came from nothing. Unless you believe that 2+2=0 (i.e. nothing).

The universe can be described mathematically. The fundamental laws of physics are described using the language of mathematics. The success of physics in describing the natural world is exceptional. It is no accident that the universe behaves according to physical laws based upon mathematics. There is no need to explain the existence of the universe in terms of a creator. The simple truth is that mathematical concepts such as 2+2=4 were not created by "God," nor was the universe. The universe is merely a wonderful consequence of the beautiful complexities of mathematics. Not even a "God" can change the fact that 2+2=4. And what about life, can mathematics create life? In other words how can such a wonderfully complex universe arise simply from mathematics/physics. With only three simple rules the game of life demonstrates that complexity can arise from simplicity:

http://www.math.com/students/wonders/life/life.html

There are so many wonderfully complex and beautiful things that arise in mathematics (fractals as just one example), that it does not take a lot of imagination to understand the complexity of the universe. However, it takes a lot of imagination to believe in a creator.
 
Posted by TheVisitor
"Only God can create something from nothing".

We've told you before, and I'll tell you again. This isn't true. There is no reason to think that only your God has this ability, and many reasons to think that it is the nature of the universe.

========

The universe which God created........
 
"A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics."

From thewaronfaith.com
 
From thewaronfaith.com
=============
There's a "credible" source............:rolleyes:
 
I never stated it was a credible source (nor a non-credible source), just a source. I am not interested in plagarism. I believe in honesty.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
The universe which God created........
Click to expand...
Regardless of what you think, there is no credibleproof for your god creating this universe... and regardless, that doesn't change that in some cases something can come from nothing WITHOUT DIVINE INTERVENTION.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Jesus said; "He that I set free, is free indeed."
Click to expand...
Jesus said, "If one blind person leads another blind person,
both of them will fall into a hole." -The Gospel of Thomas
 
that doesn't change that in some cases something can come from nothing WITHOUT DIVINE INTERVENTION.
===============
Ok, well by all means.........please feel free to provide us even one example.

The power of the spoken Word, to create something from absolutly nothing.......belongs to God alone.
And He has children, the Sons of God who in them also such power shall reside, but first the character of God to control such power must be molded in them.
By the trails and testing of our faith, through suffering we (as Jesus did before us) learn obediance, and faith by the hearing of the Word of God.
Jesus was "the beginning of the creation of God", also "the first begotton of many brethren."
Each son that cometh to God must be able to stand chastisment, or he is bastard born.


This is what life is all about....man was created in the image of God.
Mankind as he is today is not worthy to receive such power, he is in a fallen state, only by Jesus Christ and being IN Him, are we redeemed back across the chasm, and restored to our rightfull position as heirs of all things.
He is the Word of God.

Hebrews 12
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
that doesn't change that in some cases something can come from nothing WITHOUT DIVINE INTERVENTION.
===============
Ok, well by all means.........please feel free to provide us even one example.
Click to expand...
Virtual particles.
 
Yes virtual particles are an excellent example! In fact in addition to 2+2=4 (see previous post) I could have used the example of +1-1=0. On the left you have something and something else, the sum of which is nothing. Ultimately, however, you can go on believing in God, and that God created everything (and God came from nothing). It's your choice. The simple alternative is the one I have alluded to, which no one seems to have refuted. Namely, 2+2=4, nor +1-1=0 for that matter need to be created. These mathematical equations (and the mathematical equations that describe the universe) did not need to be created. There is no logical reason to believe that +1-1=0 was created (it just is). Is the fact that the derivative of sine is cosine something that was created? No, absolutely not. By the same token, electromagnetic waves (light) was not created by God. Light obeys mathematical rules, not the rules of some deity.

A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics.
 
venomx

Can I grab a sample of your source code? I've always wanted to create a graphical visualization of the concept that you
implemented.
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
No: the map is not the territory.
Click to expand...

Please define your terms "map" and "territory." Are you talking about the mapping of differential manifolds? Are these words intended to have some meaning in mathematical terms? Are these words intended to have philosophical meaning? Please elaborate on your answer.
 
Originally posted by Vatsinanaem
Please define your terms "map" and "territory." Are you talking about the mapping of differential manifolds? Are these words intended to have some meaning in mathematical terms? Are these words intended to have philosophical meaning? Please elaborate on your answer.
Click to expand...
The terms are well defined in any standard dictionary. I gave no answer - I made an observation (actully a well known quote from the world of general semanics).

To assert that "The universe is merely a wonderful consequence of the beautiful complexities of mathematics.", is to confuse the explanation with the explained and the a priori with the a posteriori.
 
Virtual particles.

==================

Explain how these can create matter, from nothing to begin with...?
If you can do this, and actually sound convincing....I'm all ears.

I know God has the ability and Adam to some extent did too, as a Son of God before he fell.

So.......I'm listening
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Virtual particles.

==================

Explain how these can create matter, from nothing to begin with...?
If you can do this, and actually sound convincing....I'm all ears.

I know God has the ability and Adam to some extent did too, as a Son of God before he fell.

So.......I'm listening
Click to expand...
Empty space is not actually "empty". It is filled with pairs of virtual particles and antiparticles that pop into existence, move apart, and them come back together and mutually annihilate. Virtual particles are the quantum fluctuations in the value of an electromagnetic or gravitational field.

The existence of these particles shows an example in nature where something can come from nothing.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Explain how these can create matter, from nothing to begin with ...
Click to expand...
I, for one, do not know.
Originally posted by TheVisitor
I know God has the ability and Adam to some extent did too, as a Son of God before he fell.
Click to expand...
You "know" nothing of the kind. You simply have a pretentious faith in a fairy-tail.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.

-- Charles Darwin, Introduction to The Descent of Man (1871)
Click to expand...
How prophetic that someone back in 1871 should be so aware of pompous fools such as you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top