George Zimmerman found Not Guilty.

[birch]

You misunderstand - there was a physical fight prior to the gunshot. This much is almost certain: Zimmerman had a broken nose and bruising. If the gun was drawn at the outset, why was it not immediately used? Would he permit himself to be struck? Unlikely. It's far more reasonable that the gun was produced during the fight and fired. If instead, as you seem to be intimating, Zimmerman produced the gun, this would mean that he was jumped for it. Possible, but it's unlikely that he would be physically injured and have his head rapped off the ground and only then fire. And so without confrontation - you'll note that I didn't say whose fault that was - Zimmerman probably wouldn't have drawn the gun. Still, that's an unknown - what I meant to say was that he didn't draw until the confrontation had started, and that seems very likely.

of course, this makes perfect sense. it is okay to fire a weapon when you are losing in a physical fight, nevermind warning, who started what, who chased down who etc. why are police uniformed and why are they identifiable as well as their weapon? hmm..

so it's okay to just have a deadly hidden trump card, pursue without cause (he sure didn't have a just reason at all) get into an altercation and kill someone claiming you were in fear for your life. just don't fight back whatsoever, don't try to defend yourself in any way, pretend you have the authority to stalk, detain, engage and shoot. why did zimmerman, according to his own account, state that a witness came forward who saw them in a tussle and told him they were going to call 911 (evidently he was on top at this point) but instead he insisted that they help him hold and detain martin? what rights did zimmerman have to do this in the first place? NONE. he was not the police, he was acting beyond his authority, he stalked martin against direct advisement not to, clearly that it wasn't his place and he had the audacity to try to detain him. he was grossly out of line from beginning to end, the evidence suggests that blatantly even by his own account, which he was clearly not aware of but luckily for him the jury was as confused, stupid and had poor judgement as he did, so saw nothing inconsistent in any of this or anything amiss.

 

[GeoffP]

I think if I was made while surveilling an individual, and that individual decided to come toward me, yeah, I would probably be a little uncomfortable. I mean, shit, there's nothing more embarrassing than being made.

Upon which point, Zimmerman should have immediately attacked... oh, I see.

 

[birch]

the Sanford Florida Police Department's online material for Neighborhood Watch. And this is on page 3:

You will add your “eyes and ears” to those of the Police Department which cannot be everywhere, all the time, by keeping a watchful eye and open ear to what is happening in your neighborhood. You will extend their ability to provide security by reporting anything unusual or suspicious, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, so they can follow up on your leads. What you will
not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.
Bolding is in original.
NW Program Handbook from Sanford FL PD (PDF)

George Zimmerman was in explicit violation of the rules of the Neighborhood Watch program the minute he got out of his car. And he was in implicit violation the minute he stuck a gun in his waistband, because he should never have done anything that put himself at risk.

and what did zimmerman do? get out of his vehicle against and follow against direct advisement that it was not his place to do so nor did he have the authority. he was packing a loaded firearm which neighborhood watchmen do not do, since that is NOT their position of authority to engage in the first place. it was not zimmerman's place to follow, have a loaded weapon as a neighborhood watch or try to detain martin. he was in gross violation on more than one count and abused his authority and was not held accountable an iota for this. even on top of this, his terribly ungrounded suspicion of someone based on actually nothing but his own paranoia or prejudice.

 

[iceaura]

"So both individuals went out of their way to follow each other, called the police on each other, harassed and stalked each other in the middle of the night in the rain, got out of their vehicles carrying firearms to attempt tracking and accosting each other, etc? Please."
Good colouring phrases.

Simple, straightforward description. That they strike you as "coloring" is symptomatic.

Who accosted who? Unknown.

Zimmerman got out of his truck to find Martin, after Martin had run away and lost him.

What does the rain have to do with it? Why does calling the police matter? Is that an act of violence now, too? Is neighbourhood watchery 'harassment'?

Zimmerman's behavior was harassment. It was not "neighborhood watchery", starting with the stalking and following and culminating with the firearm he took with him as he set off to find Martin.

If so, do I have a criminal case from when it happened to me? Come on. Where the firearm enters into it is also unknown, except in the final outcome.

We know for sure when the firearm "entered into it" - when Zimmerman took it with him as he set out to confront Martin.

"We have no information in any range that indicates Martin sought a confrontation with Zimmerman."
We have no information in any range as to who threw the first punch.

That doesn't matter.

We have no information as to why a NW guy following what he calls a suspicious individual means that the person being followed then gets to employ SYG as you suggest,

I do. It's called living with crackers who drive around harassing people they don't like, and knowing what it means when they get out of their trucks. Like I said, you simply have no experience with crackers in pickups harassing people on the street.

Even at the wildest reading of the information we have, a possibility that Martin hid and ambushed Zimmerman, it was still Zimmerman doing the stalking and harassment and seeking of confrontation.
Verbal confrontation necessarily escalates into physical?

Getting out of the truck escalated the stalking into direct physical threat - that would be true if Zimmerman had been unarmed, even - Martin was at that point entitled to defend himself according to his best judgment.

"I think what you aren't getting about this is the fact that Zimmerman getting out of his truck was starting a fight, or "initiating a confrontation" if you prefer. That I put down to your inexperience with the culture of crackers and their pickups and their proclivities for harassing people from them."

I think you can stop right there. The assertion that I don't 'get' the situation is patently false. Getting out of a truck is not starting a fight, unless you are considerably more paranoid than even Zimmerman is purported to be.

If you don't know that Zimmerman was directly and physically threatening Martin, starting a physical and violent confrontation, when he got out of that truck, then my assessment of your comprehension of the situation stands.

And packing the jury with similarly inexperienced people was very smart defense.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Trippy,

I said - Your "FACTS" are only what you fantasize happened, as only GZ knows for sure.

You reply ...

As are yours.

Show me a single example of me making stuff up here and I will agree.

And being followed by a creepy dude in a car.

Are we discussing same case? Trayvon was NEVER followed while he was in view. The Truck drove past Trayvon when GZ noticed him, he then drove another 50 yards and parked in a lot across the street and watched further and called police from the parked vehicle.

When He had lost sight of Trayvon he walked to the other entrance in the direction TM had gone, but TM had turned off that path prior to this and was walking between backyards. When GZ walked back to his truck after not seeing TM, TM approached him where the paths intersected and a fight broke out.

THE GZ version does not have GZ following TM at any time while TM was in view.

HERE
[video=youtube;hj3_krn5mAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj3_krn5mAQ[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHyIpO43NRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrqgLJjhDSs

Many reenactment videos show GZ following TM as if his truck was on TM heels, but this is how GZ described it more or less. Never did GZ follow TM when TM was visible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZMQRXr3Ers

This is patently untrue. The only way this is true is if the blacks are evenly distributed through the neighbourhood, which is generally unlikely. I presume the clubhouse is a golf clubhouse or a tennis club house. I wonder how many blacks could afford to live near it (yes, I know that statement amounts to institutional racism, but it's a reflection of my understanding of American poverty statistics).

Many of the cheaper places to live are gated communities and can have clubhouses.

Think of any Condominium. A condo is gated community with concierge, security, and often have gyms and pools like a clubhouse. Condos are considered low end housing in most cases.

Now these were Townhouses. They were not detached or even semi detached. I also do not consider townhouses as high end real estate. Townhouses are normally uniform in color, design, and living space although they may vary from two to four bedrooms. I do not think the races would be segregated here and the clubhouse was likely included in their monthly maintenance fees. This is only a guess however and I have no knowledge of how THOSE particular Townhouses billed residents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGeFAvzqyA

http://www.pointecentralfloridarealty.com/The-Retreat-At-Twin-Lakes-6-6067.html

Real estate listings show prices under $200k with less than $200/Month maintenance fees. You decide if this is high end.



@ Tiassa,

But our eagle-eyed wannabe watchman couldn't even figure out what a person talking on a phone looks like; even more, he couldn't tell what a phone looks like, even though he was holding one next to his own face in the moment.

Did you make this up as you typed, or did you make it up long ago? Where does it say he didn't see a phone? It was a hands free phone as it had earpiece and microphone (TM GF heard it fall out of ear during fight), but gz may have known he was on phone.

 

[iceaura]

Are we discussing same case? Trayvon was NEVER followed. - -
= = =
When He had lost sight of Trayvon he walked to the other entrance in the direction TM had gone,

Uh, that second bit there is called "following". That's what the word means. According to the phone transcript (which we do not have depend on GZ for) Martin ran away, and GZ got out of his truck to track him down.

THE GZ version does not have GZ following TM at any time while TM was in view.

The forensic analysis presented at the trial showed that the physical evidence available (months later) conflicted with the GZ version of almost everything that happened.

But even accepting GZ's hairsplitting version, in which one is not "following" somebody unless moving oneself, we have the running away and the attempt to track on foot.

 

[Tiassa]

(Insert Title Here)

Did you make this up as you typed, or did you make it up long ago? Where does it say he didn't see a phone? It was a hands free phone as it had earpiece and microphone (TM GF heard it fall out of ear during fight).

As George Zimmerman himself said: "Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands; I don't know what his deal is."

That something in his hand is most likely a cell phone, or else a bottle of iced tea.

But yes, you are correct that I was wrong about the lack of a hands free.

Meanwhile, back to the important question: Why is a black male on a phone any more suspicious than anyone else?

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Iceaura,

I said repeatedly in my post "he did not follow TM while TM was in view". If you say tracking him is the same then oh well. GZ says he was trying to get an address for police. Once they told him he did not need to follow he stopped where he was.

You only took part of what I said and twisted it.

See video in my last post.

 

[iceaura]

I said repeatedly in my post "he did not follow TM while TM was in view"

And I mocked you for a ridiculous piece of word-juggling - why do you think people have to be moving themselves to be "following" somebody?

Once they told him he did not need to follow he stopped where he was

So was he stopped when he called the police, as you said above, or following in motion as you say there? Is it too much to expect you to maintain a consistent position from one sentence to the next?

Either way, of course, he then left his truck and set out after Martin, who had run away. That is "following" by anyone's definition, and Zimmerman did not forget to bring his gun, loaded and apparently (as it turned out, if we take his word for events) with the safety off.

 

[Bells]

I think what he means is that Martin wasn't squeaky-clean; the unsubmitted stuff kwilborn has been bringing up suggest some inclination to violence and so forth. On basis of the complete range of information available, it seems that both individuals sought a confrontation.

Had you been reading the thread, you would have seen that he was claiming that Zimmerman just knew all of this by looking at Martin and that he had done a good thing in killing Martin - you know, because Martin was such a criminal and all.

These are some of the things he had been saying in this thread.

By even Zimmerman's retelling and re-enactment the day after the shooting (where he physically walked the police through his actions and what Martin had been doing), Martin had been walking down the street slowly, talking on his phone and looking around at the houses around him. When he noticed Zimmerman following him in his car, he walked past the car and then ran down a path that led to the back of his father's condo. That was where Zimmerman lost him. Martin then continued up the path, still looking for him, stopped at the top of the path, then turned around and walked back towards where he had lost Martin. That was where Martin confronted him and by Zimmerman's own re-enactment, asked him what his problem was. At no time did he identify himself as neighbourhood watch - by Zimmerman's retelling.

At no time in that re-enactment did he say that Martin looked violent or had an inclination to violence. Quite the contrary, he clearly says that Zimmerman ran away from him and that he then decided to run after Martin on foot - after following him from his car.

I don't know about you, but if I'm walking down the street and I notice some weirdo driving slowly behind me, stopping and watching me and then following me in his car again, I'd see that as confrontational and see it as being something I'd need to get away from. I tell my children the same thing. Stranger danger and Zimmerman's actions were exactly what we tell our kids to run away from. His then getting out of the car and running after the teenager who ran from him (remember, to Martin, Zimmerman was the stranger following him in a car) is not confrontational. He then hid and watched Zimmerman, watched Zimmerman stop and look for him down the path that led to his father's house. Then watched him walk up past that path, still looking for him, to the street where his father's house fronted on. Saw him stand there and look for him, then slowly walk back down the path to where Martin was hiding. Put yourself in the mind of a teenager hiding in the shadows watching the person who'd followed him do this. I'm an adult and the thought of having some stranger follow me like that would make me terrified and yes, I would probably step out and demand to know what the fuck he was doing in a loud voice so that others nearby could hear me. Which is exactly what Martin did as recounted by Zimmerman.

The reason why Martin's sms's were not admissible in court is because it had no relevancy to Zimmerman's case or to what happened that night. There is no proof that he sold guns to children, as Kwil tried to claim, no proof (physical or otherwise) that he took part in fight clubs (someone who did this would have bruising at the very least, the only mark he had on him was a small cut near his ring finger which was documented in his autopsy). There is also no proof that he had a gun or owned one or planned to acquire one or sell one. And Zimmerman would not have known any of this when he thought the black kid walking slowly in the rain talking on his phone and looking around at the houses around him looked suspicious enough to follow and then give chase to while armed.

I think you can stop right there. The assertion that I don't 'get' the situation is patently false. Getting out of a truck is not starting a fight, unless you are considerably more paranoid than even Zimmerman is purported to be. You're just presenting an alternative set of assertions.

If one of your kids is walking home and he notices a stranger in a car following him and watching him and then getting out of his car to follow him on foot, what would you tell your kid to do? You wouldn't view the actions of the stranger as being confrontational when he starts to follow your kid in a car and then on foot?

---

GZ had described some of the suspicious behaviour as wandering between the houses, "cutting between the houses". We also know he described TM as standing on the lawn of a neighbors at one point.

Had you watched Zimmerman's video, you would see that there was no way that Martin could physically cut between houses when he first saw or noticed Martin. Because the houses are attached to each other with a path leading to the back areas, where there are also paths that lead through the estate, so that people can access their condo's from the back as well. At around 2:24 in the re-enactment video is where Zimmerman tells the police where he had first noticed Martin, standing on the grassy area in front of the house - the whole area is lawn, with no footpath. Next to that house, is a lane with a path that cuts between the two houses. He said he noticed something "a bit off about him" because apparently, he stopped in the grassy area and looked around. This is apparently not allowed? Zimmerman then said he drove past him and stopped and watched him.

Any person wandering around on peoples lawns and cutting in-between homes (stated by GZ), who is confrontational enough to circle GZ truck at close range (stated by GZ), might be considered a threat just based on this. Without even considering race.

Can you lie more?

He was walking on the "grassy area" - which is to be expected because the exact place where Zimmerman saw him, there was no footpath. He didn't circle Zimmerman's truck. He walked past Zimmerman's car where Zimmerman had parked to watch Martin and as Zimmerman describes to police in his re-enactment video, Martin walked past his car slowly and looked at him and his car. So understand something. Teenage boy notices a guy slow down and stare at him then notices the car parked slightly up the road and the guy sitting there watching him. It was after he'd walked past the car that Martin then ran and cut down the lane that led to his father's condo. It was at this point that Zimmerman gave chase on foot.

He wasn't "wandering around on people's lawns and cutting between houses". By Zimmerman's own re-telling and re-enactment, he was standing on the "grassy area in front of a house" where there was no footpath in front of that house and he was walking down the lanes that cut between the condo's heading towards his father's condo.

If a 6'2" white guy circled my car with an attitude that made me want to roll up my window, I would be uncomfortable.

When Zimmerman re-enacted his movement and Martin's movement, he claimed Martin walked past where he had parked his car and then ran away from Zimmerman's parked car, and Zimmerman then said that he followed him in his car.. He got to near the lane where Martin was walking - the lane that led to the back of Martin's father's condo. That was when Martin walked around Zimmerman's car looking at him in the car - keep in mind, Zimmerman had followed him in his car all this time, stopping and watching him at times. And then Martin ran away and ran down the lane that led to the back of his father's condo. During this time, Zimmerman was still on the phone with the police dispatcher and was unable to name the street he was on - in a small estate with 3 streets where Zimmerman was the Neighbourhood Watch... Astounding really.

If a guy starts following me in his car, watching me and stopping near me and sitting there staring at me, I would be uncomfortable. It's the stuff of every parent's nightmare. A stranger starts to follow your kid, stopping and staring and then following him again in a car and then on foot. It's what police, teachers and parents tell their kids to run away from in all stranger danger classes...

We really do not know what "on drugs" looks like in this case, but this was a black/mixed race community as much as it was white.

What?!

 

[Tiassa]

The System Worked

Upon which point, Zimmerman should have immediately attacked... oh, I see.

The whole thing really is a complicated mess; in truth I have no idea what this whole Trayvon-on-Trial digression is supposed to actually be about. Or, actually, that's not quite right. That Zimmerman did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law is what it is; I have said repeatedly that the system worked exactly as it was intended.

But that's the thing. These laws will never allow women to gun men down in pubs for the threatening crime of a bad pickup line. Already we know that black people in Florida don't have the right to stand their ground. SYG was never intended for those purposes.

It's only really about one thing: People need to be able to kill other people because the one is afraid of the other's mere existence.

And, you know, if it was actually intended to be fairly and universally enforced, it might actually have some positive effect.

No, seriously, can you imagine the heterosexual hook-up scene under force of gender parity? The Second Civil War will start in Ft. Lauderdale, during spring break, when a feminist provocateur baits a guy into a back-alley make-out session, says no, and then puts two through his chest when he doesn't stop in time. By the time everybody who was scared enough to stand their ground finishes shooting, the death toll will be high enough for the fracas to have factionalized, and perhaps that day the Horesemen will trample America's Wang, and the rest of us will stand by with our jaws open, saying, "Really, this isn't really happening, is it?"

And no, it's not, because SYG will never be justly enforced. It will never get that far.

SYG is about one thing, and that's what this case makes clear. It doesn't matter if you create danger for yourself. Once you feel that danger, you are free to kill as you see fit.

Well, you know, as long as you and the people you kill are of the proper tacit classifications.

And trying to deify George Zimmerman, as some have, this whole effort to put Trayvon on Trial, is a way of avoiding that broader discussion.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Iceaura,

So was he stopped when he called the police, as you said above, or following in motion as you say there? Is it too much to expect you to maintain a consistent position from one sentence to the next?

In the video I posted you can see that GZ got out of his car (door slam part) after TM had started running up a short path and vanished to the right. Trayvon had never been seen again after he ran off (until fight). The last GZ had seen him was in the truck until the confrontation.

@ Bells,

Sorry, but I honestly started skipping all your posts long ago when you were too daft to understand how to verify phone records or understand what square brackets mean. I think your view is based entirely on the opinion of others, as I do not give you enough credit to rationalize this yourself.

This one was lengthy though so I thought it would be fun to see what stupidity you say. so ...

[kwhilborn] was claiming that Zimmerman just knew all of this by looking at Martin and that he had done a good thing in killing Martin - you know, because Martin was such a criminal and all.

That's bull. I'm saying maybe Trayvon was really a criminal based on his former actions. If he was looking for a house to break into then perhaps it was noticeable. Your notion I have suggested it was a psychic awareness is a misleading lie. Please quote where I ever said anything remotely like that. Dingbat!

I don't know about you, but if I'm walking down the street and I notice some weirdo driving slowly behind me, stopping and watching me and then following me in his car again,

Again. This is only in your fantasy. GZ never followed TM in his car. rewatch video I posted 2 links ago to get a general idea. Your weirdo fantasies of what you think could happen in never never land you are using to pollute the discussion.

He didn't circle Zimmerman's truck.
I'm glad you were there to witness it because ...

Zimmerman told investigators that at one point Martin circled his vehicle,[Note 8] and he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation.[174][179]

from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

keep in mind, Zimmerman had followed him in his car all this time, stopping and watching him at times

Bullcrap! No witness or Zimmerman ever gave an account like this.

This is precisely why your posts are best left ignored.

GZ only followed TM for a few seconds (on foot) until the police told him to stop, and he stopped, and Trayvon was already out of sight when this happened.

Why not write fiction. You might arrive closer to the truth.

 

[Bells]

@ Iceaura,


In the video I posted you can see that GZ got out of his car (door slam part) after TM had started running up a short path and vanished to the right. Trayvon had never been seen again after he ran off (until fight). The last GZ had seen him was in the truck until the confrontation.

@ Bells,

Sorry, but I honestly started skipping all your posts long ago when you were too daft to understand how to verify phone records or understand what square brackets mean. I think your view is based entirely on the opinion of others, as I do not give you enough credit to rationalize this yourself.

This one was lengthy though so I thought it would be fun to see what stupidity you say. so ...



That's bull. I'm saying maybe Trayvon was really a criminal based on his former actions. If he was looking for a house to break into then perhaps it was noticeable. Your notion I have suggested it was a psychic awareness is a misleading lie. Please quote where I ever said anything remotely like that. Dingbat!


Again. This is only in your fantasy. GZ never followed TM in his car. rewatch video I posted 2 links ago to get a general idea. Your weirdo fantasies of what you think could happen in never never land you are using to pollute the discussion.

He didn't circle Zimmerman's truck.
I'm glad you were there to witness it because ...

from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin



Bullcrap! No witness or Zimmerman ever gave an account like this.

This is precisely why your posts are best left ignored.

GZ only followed TM for a few seconds (on foot) until the police told him to stop, and he stopped, and Trayvon was already out of sight when this happened.

Why not write fiction. You might arrive closer to the truth.

In Zimmerman's own reenactment video which I posted above, Zimmerman describes how he followed Martin in his car before he got out and chased him on foot.

So stop lying.

 

[iceaura]

"So was he stopped when he called the police, as you said above, or following in motion as you say there? Is it too much to expect you to maintain a consistent position from one sentence to the next?"

In the video I posted you can see that GZ got out of his car (door slam part) after TM had started running up a short path and vanished to the right. Trayvon had never been seen again after he ran off (until fight). The last GZ had seen him was in the truck until the confrontation.

So which of your two conflicting versions are you deciding to assert: that Zimmerman was stopped - and therefore in your unique vocabulary not "following" - when he called the police, or that

Zimmerman was in motion following Martin when he told the police he was following Martin, but stopped when he was told to stop following Martin?

Either way, of course, Zimmerman got out of his truck and chased after Martin when the kid ran away - that's called "following" by everybody.

 

[Bells]

SYG is about one thing, and that's what this case makes clear. It doesn't matter if you create danger for yourself. Once you feel that danger, you are free to kill as you see fit.

Well, you know, as long as you and the people you kill are of the proper tacit classifications.

And that was clearly demonstrated in the case of Marissa Alexander, a 32 year old woman from Florida who had no criminal record or history, who fired a warning shot at her abusive husband, against whom she had a restraining order and who has a criminal record for domestic abuse against her. He was in her home, her two children were in the living room, Ms Alexander advised that he was coming towards her in a threatening manner in her kitchen. So she fired two shots from a gun licensed and registered to her, after he refused to leave her house, instead threatened her again and when she fired, she aimed for and hit the wall, to warn him off from abusing her again. She was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. She filed a SYG claim.

Now think about it.

She was in her home with her children.

Her abuser had returned to her home. A man who has a conviction for domestic abuse - he abused her and was charged and convicted of that crime. She has a restraining order against him.

He was in her home and threatening her.

So she stood her ground and fired a shot at the wall near her threatening abuser.

She stood her ground against an attacker in her home and thus, was acting to protect herself and her children against a man who had attacked her badly enough in the past that he was convicted for it in a court of law and whom the law deemed enough of a danger to her that it granted a restraining order against him. This is the classic case of what the SYG laws is meant to stand for.

She was charged with 3 counts of aggravated assault because her two children were in the living room when the confrontation took place in the kitchen - where she stood her ground.

She was found guilty and under Florida law sentenced to 20 years prison.

The difference between Ms Alexander and Zimmerman? She is black.

 

[birch]

She was charged with 3 counts of aggravated assault because her two children were in the living room when the confrontation took place in the kitchen - where she stood her ground.

She was found guilty and under Florida law sentenced to 20 years prison.

that is just..

that's the thing people assume, that somehow verdicts are handed out by thinking, rational, fair and just people and that is not always true. they just assume that the law is going to work correctly and forget how unfair laws and the judicial system can be riddled with the chances of human bias, prejudice, ignorance, stupidity, unfairness etc

I'm all for self defense and all,but the story I just read say she told him to leave and he refused.Stand your ground law doesn't say you can shoot or shoot at people for not leaving your home and isn't like liberals make it out to be.She went o her car and came back in and shot at the man twice and th 2nd time while he was leaving and had their children.She put her children in danger.If he was in the process of beating her then by all means blow the bastard away.

a typical comment from the 'right', why is it always the 'right' defending the unfair? the 'right' just tends to leave out all those annoying pesky details such as how she already had a restraining order against him and how he was in direct violation of them but she was putting her kids in danger but somehow if she 'blew' him away, then she didn't put her kids in danger? how do they want it? it's so easy to be a retard and scream you know what the fuk you are talking about with assurance because nothing else sinks in like a bull in a china shop.

this is a case where stand your ground would legitimately apply as she was in her home, defending her home, herself and her children against an intruder but not only an intruder but one that she even has a restraining order against and she gets 20 years. she didn't even kill him.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Iceaura,
Please change your quotes to reflect what you said so the stupidity does not reflect on me. I have no question about motion based on GZ version (only version).

He only started following TM after he vanished from view. The part of the tape you hear him leave his truck and slam door. Then The officer asked if he was following. GZ said yes, but TM was already out of sight.

I posted a video in post 645. That video is not completely accurate, but you can see there were only a few seconds of actual following and he stopped when police said to. In the video he walks down path between houses, but the fight started at N end of path.

@ Bells,

In Zimmerman's own reenactment video which I posted above, Zimmerman describes how he followed Martin in his car before he got out and chased him on foot.So stop lying.

It is you that is lying although I think you have comprehension issues and they are not intentional.

Here is your link to the GZ version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_0cgsmCfQ&noredirect=1

Your earlier version was ...

I don't know about you, but if I'm walking down the street and I notice some weirdo driving slowly behind me, stopping and watching me and then following me in his car again,

Nowhere does he EVER, EVER, EVER say he slowly followed TM in his car.

He drove ahead of him and parked and then drove to another location and parked. Driving slowly behind him I have seen in bogus videos, so you likely just bought into the propaganda.

at 6:19 (of that video) he said TM circled his car which you denied.

 

[Bells]

@ Iceaura,
Please change your quotes to reflect what you said so the stupidity does not reflect on me. I have no question about motion based on GZ version (only version).

He only started following TM after he vanished from view. The part of the tape you hear him leave his truck and slam door. Then The officer asked if he was following. GZ said yes, but TM was already out of sight.

I posted a video in post 645. That video is not completely accurate, but you can see there were only a few seconds of actual following and he stopped when police said to. In the video he walks down path between houses, but the fight started at N end of path.

@ Bells,


It is you that is lying although I think you have comprehension issues and they are not intentional.

Here is your link to the GZ version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_0cgsmCfQ&noredirect=1

Your earlier version was ...


Nowhere does he EVER, EVER, EVER say he slowly followed TM in his car.

He drove ahead of him and parked and then drove to another location and parked. Driving slowly behind him I have seen in bogus videos, so you likely just bought into the propaganda.

at 6:19 (of that video) he said TM circled his car which you denied.

Watch the video. He slowed down, looked at him, then drove further up the street, parked and then sat and watched him as he called police on the non-emergency number. Martin then walked past, and cut down a pathway, heading towards home. Zimmerman, still on the phone, took off after him in his car, noticed him on the street behind the club house and drove up slowly as Martin walked up that street and onto the path that led to the laneway which led to the back of his father's house. Zimmerman admitted that he followed him in his car and then gave chase to him on foot.

I also said in my previous post to you that Martin walked around his car before he went up the path to the laneway that led directly to his father's house, which was when Zimmerman got out of the car and gave chase while still talking on the phone. It was at that point that he was told to stop following and chasing him, but he kept going, realised he'd lost Martin and continued up the path to see if he could spot him again and to try to find a house number or address he could give the police. He then turned around and doubled back, still looking for Martin when Martin then confronted him and asked him what his problem was.

He described in detail how he followed Martin. How when he drove around the club house and saw Martin, slowed down and followed him in his car, whereupon Martin then walked around the car and looked at him and then took off down the laneway.

The very fact that he drove around the clubhouse looking for Martin means that he was following him in his car you dolt.

His not following Martin would have been his remaining in his car outside the clubhouse.

 

[birch]

SYG is about one thing, and that's what this case makes clear. It doesn't matter if you create danger for yourself. Once you feel that danger, you are free to kill as you see fit.

Or if you create danger or threatening situations to others as well.

 

[Tiassa]

It's Time to Cut Off America's Wang

The difference between Ms Alexander and Zimmerman? She is black.

Well, right. It's Florida. A wall is worth more than the life of some stupid black woman. See, by the Sunshine Ethos, if she had done society the service of erasing another black man from Florida, she would have been rewarded. Her mistake was in not killing him.

I'm sorry. It's Florida. This is what Florida is. This is what life is worth to Floridians.

Yes, this disgrace, this Hell, this eternal stain on the promise of America, is the essential character of Florida and the people who live there, who voted for these laws, who empowered these outcomes.

You know, we'll take the refugees, but it's time to cut Florida loose. Pre-emptive secession. These people don't want to be Americans; let us grant their wish.