Geneticists, biologists, & the impossible bio-"medical" models of "psychiatric disord

See matthewlisraelisaterrorist dot blogspot dot com/2012/03/on-dearth-of-realistic-information.html

for a long list of better hypotheses

It would be nice if geneticists and biologists besides George Church, a Harvard genetics professor, would speak up.
 
I think this is incorrect. What evidence do you have to back up this idea?

See my post above. Plus research in the 50's and 60's, even French research today recognizes the parental problem. Indeed, with the way they blame mothers they take a one-size-fits-all aproach and go overboard. But at least those like Bruno Bettelheim were more or less on the right track, more so than researchers today in any case.

What "evidence" do today's autism researchers have? For example, they don't address the possibility uptight mothers harmed their fetuses (www dot guardian dot co dot uk/science/2007/may/31/childrensservices.medicineandhealth).

When developing hypotheses they make assumptions that permit business as usual approaches. They do not address the possibility that neurological differences are simply that and that the parents aren't handling statistically different children right. They need to stop making comparisons to "typically developing" peers.

If the neurology is the result of damage, they just blame the genes, rather that look at the environment (this should include social, not just toxins) and determine if the problem is there. Rather than do a real analysis, they just "diagnose." They have lurched to the opposite extreme, absolving anyone with any degree of power. Unlike parents who form "woo me" organizations, the children have absolutely none (power).
 
The underlying assumption of these hypotheses is an "impossible mutation model where deleterious mutations build up to form haplotypes and syndromes" which can "explain" autism "spectrum" "disorders." "It is impossible because it goes against evolutionary theory (survival of the fittest) and genetic models (fixation and genetic drift)."

"If a mutation exists long enough in the genome, it must either go towards fixation or get lost by genetic drift. If the mutation is positive, it has magnitudes higher chance of reaching fixation than a mutation that is neutral or negative. Therefore, few deleterious mutations with survive over time. Only new ones will, and they are not linked to each other" as is claimed. "The level of deleterious mutations is always kept low in the genome, much lower than the prevalence of most neuropsychiatric disorders."

You can have a higher prevalence of some relatively "deleterious" trait than you would expect from "deleterious mutations" by simple things such as these traits not being caused by a single, dominant, mutation, but rather depending on a complex interaction of multiple genes, "epistasis", and "additive variation".

Such phenomena "protect" some deleterious traits from natural selection in a way that invalidates this adaptationist prediction that they shouldn't exist if they were purely genetic. Not only they such genes can persist unexpressed as deleterious traits, but also in less deleterious points of a "spectrum" (somewhat like height or "pure" skin color, unaffected by tanning), and perhaps in some cases they can even be beneficial variation (the textbook example is sickle cell anemia, but the principle could apply to conditions related with cognitive functioning as well).

Furthermore there's the additional complication that humans care for each other and so any deleterious trait is not as deleterious as it would be in less social and less technological species, further decelerating the negative selection they would otherwise suffer.



As I see it, there are only two plausible explanations for autism. Both are based on environmental toxins. The difference is that one looks to chemical toxins, while the most likely explanation looks to social toxins that cause depression and complex post-traumatic assault and battery. Autistics are victims of violent crime, not disease. This was known before the truth was "discredited" through politically-motivated brainwashing by perps who wish to avoid responsibility.

Now you're entering into conspiracy theory territory.

Child abuse isn't something ever posited to be harmless by any biologist or geneticist. If such conspiracy theory were true, that's what we would be expecting to hear. "Beat all you want, as long as you don't physically hurt, there's no such thing as psychological trauma, much less something that could have psychiatric implications. So relax and beat your children at will, that's the way to go".

In fact we observe the opposite trend, even the traditionally thought harmless spanking is being condemned by scientists of the relevant disciplines.

There's no secret campaign to tolerate child abuse, to make it seem harmless. It's only something that does not seem to be the cause of autism in particular. Just like it is not the case for Down syndrome, it does not make any good to posit that it was somehow the fault of the parents for something they apparently have no control at all. If you have really concern towards unjust psychological trauma, that's something you ought to find really bad.


That's not to say that there's no environmental factor at all. I don't know about factors concerning the interaction between parents and children, but there's some literature on certain types of food, apparently autists have a more "leaky" brain-blood barrier (perhaps it's something more indirect, I'm not sure) and some ingredients of some foods or of the digestion of such foods are to be avoided.
 
I believe I've read somewhere from Robert Sapolsky, a biologist/neurologist and anthropologist, who happens to be much interested in the topic of environmental influences on behavior and abilities, that we probably can't draw a clear line (as the adaptionist argument draws) between deleterious and normal genetic variation. That "normality" is in fact just an state of having very mild "diseases" for almost everything. I think he was actually quoting some phylosopher, his but I don't remember exactly whom or the precise quote. I guess it was Kierkegaard, but it couldn't find Sapolsky making that specific quote (but other one, unrelated) on my quick google search.

I believe the blog "gene expression" had a post on this a little while ago, not necessarily mentioning Sapolsky.
 
Now you're entering into conspiracy theory territory.

Google "Autism: The Eusocial Hominid Hypothesis" Under this theory, the flip side of the Neanderthal Theory," people who are behaviorally H.s.s. are naturally rather conspiratorial. Granted, their actions are more instinctive than premeditated.

Child abuse isn't something ever posited to be harmless by any biologist or geneticist. If such conspiracy theory were true, that's what we would be expecting to hear. "Beat all you want, as long as you don't physically hurt, there's no such thing as psychological trauma, much less something that could have psychiatric implications. So relax and beat your children at will, that's the way to go".

That assumes that they are honest and explicit, or even aware of what they are doing. People who are behaviorally H.s.s. can't be honest with themselves, much less others. Indeed, the "paranoid" "schizophrenics" are probably more aware of the motives of the powers-that-be than the powers-that-be are.

In fact we observe the opposite trend, even the traditionally thought harmless spanking is being condemned by scientists of the relevant disciplines.

There's no secret campaign to tolerate child abuse, to make it seem harmless. It's only something that does not seem to be the cause of autism in particular. Just like it is not the case for Down syndrome, it does not make any good to posit that it was somehow the fault of the parents for something they apparently have no control at all. If you have really concern towards unjust psychological trauma, that's something you ought to find really bad.

Psychiatry proves otherwise. How do they deal with self-harm -- more of the same abuse that most likely caused the self-harm in the first place. The morals and ethics that supposedly prevents repeats of the Milgram Experiment do not apply to them. What psychiatry does routinely is similar and indeed much worse. The rules that apply to the 60% of the population that are neurologically typical do not apply to the other 40% who aren't even considered human.
 
I believe I've read somewhere from Robert Sapolsky, a biologist/neurologist and anthropologist, who happens to be much interested in the topic of environmental influences on behavior and abilities, that we probably can't draw a clear line (as the adaptionist argument draws) between deleterious and normal genetic variation. That "normality" is in fact just an state of having very mild "diseases" for almost everything. I think he was actually quoting some phylosopher, his but I don't remember exactly whom or the precise quote. I guess it was Kierkegaard, but it couldn't find Sapolsky making that specific quote (but other one, unrelated) on my quick google search.

I believe the blog "gene expression" had a post on this a little while ago, not necessarily mentioning Sapolsky.

Exactly, even when there isn't a bad design, there are inevitable trade-offs. The social and medical sciences are still in their infancy. Eugenics at this point would obviously be a suicidal hubric act. By the way, I like the "Gene Expression" blog.
 
40AcresMule40kyrsint -


What do you think -

1. Who or what is a "person"? What constitutes a "person"?
2. Do you believe in karma and reincarnation? If not, why not, and what do you think of them?
3. What do you believe is 1. "normalcy" and 2. "happiness", and how do they come about?
 
40AcresMule40kyrsint -


What do you think -

1. Who or what is a "person"? What constitutes a "person"?

Any sentient being Most likely other species on Earth especially whales and dolphins are probably in this category. Perhaps even most mammals, even most animals.

2. Do you believe in karma and reincarnation? If not, why not, and what do you think of them?

I have no idea if these ideas are correct or not. Perhaps the truth is much more complicated. Neurotypical humans definitely do not know nor will they ever be the ones to figure it out, if anyone ever does.

3. What do you believe is 1. "normalcy" and 2. "happiness", and how do they come about?

I think it best to takes a big leap back before "normal" and related terms that have come into existence since the mid-1800s. As for happiness, there is no on-size-fits-all approach that works for everyone. "Normal," at least as used today is a term invented around 1840.
 
I'm asking about these things (and also the "meaning of life") because I think that without agreeing on what they mean or refer to, it is impossible to formulate a constructive psychiatric/psychological theory, as well as impossible to produce any relevant criticism of it.

Secondly, it's not clear what the goal of Western psychiatry/psychology is, as related to "troubled people."
It seems though that the goal is to help "troubled people" to become "normal," to become "functional," to "fit in."
The goal doesn't seem to be truth (especially not in a philosophical sense), nor happiness.

Given this, Western psychiatry/psychology might just be true to its (actual) mission.
 
Secondly, it's not clear what the goal of Western psychiatry/psychology is, as related to "troubled people."
It seems though that the goal is to help "troubled people" to become "normal," to become "functional," to "fit in."

The goal is to ignore social issues and integrate people in the easiest, most expedient way regardless of moral and ethical considerations.

The goal doesn't seem to be truth (especially not in a philosophical sense), nor happiness.

No explicative (fresh manure).
 
The goal is to ignore social issues and integrate people in the easiest, most expedient way regardless of moral and ethical considerations.

The basic perspective of Western psychiatry/psychology does seem to be that life is a struggle for survival. They are not off-base with that.


While it certainly is no fun to be on the receiving end of ECT because you just couldn't get yourself to be happy with the usual robot-like existence, life itself does put pressure on us, and we better shit, or get off the pot.

As per Freud, the aim isn't happiness, but to be ordinarily unhappy, as opposed to neurotically unhappy.

Those who want more from life than the usual robot-like existence, need to take responsiblity for that and not hope that other people in the struggle for survival will help them with it.

It's a dog-eat-dog world, with ever new levels of subtlety.
 
See my post above. Plus research in the 50's and 60's, even French research today recognizes the parental problem. Indeed, with the way they blame mothers they take a one-size-fits-all aproach and go overboard. But at least those like Bruno Bettelheim were more or less on the right track, more so than researchers today in any case..

The French for some reason are stuck in the 50's when it comes to an understanding of autism. We now know that the "refrigerator mother" hypothesis is wrong. The vaccine hypothesis is also wrong. Autism is likely genetic, and there is no contradiction between that and the theory of evolution. Some genes may be beneficial in one context and harmful in another. For instance, it is likely that homosexuality is genetic, and the reason is a misplaced gene that actually increases reproductive success overall.
 
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