Gay Episcopal Church -- Going, Going, Gone

[Woody]

Speaking of ichabod churches, the gay agenda sure knows to kill 'em. It's fine with me if a gay church folds up.

Episcopal Gay Church

Before you call be a biggot, let me ask you a question: Do you want to go to a gay church? When will you start attending?

BTW, outside of marriage, celebacy is a moral code that all christians are expected to abide with regardless of their sexual orientation.

 

[KennyJC]

Before you call be a biggot, let me ask you a question: Do you want to go to a gay church? When will you start attending?

No, but then again, I'm not gay.

Why would you have anything against gay people having a church or not? The way gay people are treated in America it's only natural they might want a church free of fascists like yourself.

 

[charles cure]

Speaking of ichabod churches, the gay agenda sure knows to kill 'em. It's fine with me if a gay church folds up.

Episcopal Gay Church

Before you call be a biggot, let me ask you a question: Do you want to go to a gay church? When will you start attending?

BTW, outside of marriage, celebacy is a moral code that all christians are expected to abide with regardless of their sexual orientation.

who cares if there's a gay church? does it really bug you that much that a couple of guys might go to church holding hands and try to participate in the same worship of the same god that you seem to value so highly? if god is supposed to love everyone, what prevents this love from being extended to homosexuals as well as heterosexuals? plus, shouldn't christianity be happy that they can convert anyone in a time where people are so on the fence about whether they want to be associated with a church where the "heterosexual" priests molest young children and condemn scientific research on everything from global warming to stem cell therapy?

 

[S.A.M.]

Speaking of ichabod churches, the gay agenda sure knows to kill 'em. It's fine with me if a gay church folds up.

Episcopal Gay Church

Before you call be a biggot, let me ask you a question: Do you want to go to a gay church? When will you start attending?

BTW, outside of marriage, celebacy is a moral code that all christians are expected to abide with regardless of their sexual orientation.

Could we go if we were neither Christian nor gay?

 

[Woody]

Could we go if we were neither Christian nor gay?

yep,

all people are welcome to come to church. Gay people are welcome too. We have a moral code that says nobody can be a member if they are having sex outside of a church-sanctioned marriage (between man and woman). Practicing drug addicts, drunks, whores, etc can not be members, but they are welcome to attend all they want.

 

[Woody]

who cares if there's a gay church? does it really bug you that much that a couple of guys might go to church holding hands and try to participate in the same worship of the same god that you seem to value so highly? if god is supposed to love everyone, what prevents this love from being extended to homosexuals as well as heterosexuals? plus, shouldn't christianity be happy that they can convert anyone in a time where people are so on the fence about whether they want to be associated with a church where the "heterosexual" priests molest young children and condemn scientific research on everything from global warming to stem cell therapy?

I don't want to attend any church that doesn't preach the bible, whether it's gay or not. I don't want to go there. Other church members feel the same way.

I don't care if there is a gay church. Let's see how long it lasts. Why do liberal churches die? Answer: they say you are ok like you are, and you're no different than anyone else, so what's the point of even going to church at all? Why not just sleep in Sunday morning? It's just a waste of time. Yeah, I see why liberal churches die -- they water down doctrine to the point where the church and the bible become totally irrelevant -- that's a dead church for you.

 

[Woody]

W originally said:

Do you want to go to a gay church? When will you start attending?

No, but then again, I'm not gay.

I agree with you, I don't want to attend a gay church either.

 

[spidergoat]

That article says nothing about a church folding up, only that there is a split between so-called liberal episcopalians and conservative ones on this issue.

I wonder, Woody, if you are as hateful of shellfish eaters as you are of gay people.
http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

I believe that conservatives use the bible to justify their cultural prejudices, not that they follow the bible to the letter.

 

[KennyJC]

I agree with you, I don't want to attend a gay church either.

Choose to reply to the other half of my post? Or is it another 'no comment' from a theist?

 

[Woody]

That article says nothing about a church folding up, only that there is a split between so-called liberal episcopalians and conservative ones on this issue.

I wonder, Woody, if you are as hateful of shellfish eaters as you are of gay people.
http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

I believe that conservatives use the bible to justify their cultural prejudices, not that they follow the bible to the letter.

It will fold up, just give it time. The church I discussed with MW was episcopal. The female minister was gay that split it in half to remove gender from the hymn book. Now the church is in two pieces with both dead.

I really don't care if gays have a church. Like I said before -- what's the point? Atheists can have a church too if they want to, but what's the point? Maybe you can start a sex-drugs-and rock-n-roll church, but what's the point?

Your website is obviously concocted by someone that is pro-gay. They have a hard time with civil communication, and it shows their own hatred for christians. They cherry pick Leviticus about dietary laws, but then they leave out the good part -- where Leviticus commands people to stone gays to death. They aren't interested in stating someone's opinion accurately. The whole site is an obvious sock-puppet distortion.

Perhaps there should be a parody weblink: gayshatetheoppositesex.com

Nah, maybe not. Why would a civil person deal on their level?

By the way how do you define a homophobe? The word is widely used but does it really mean anything?

from the wiki:

The fact that "homophobia" contains the word "phobia" leads some people to reject the term outright, and to criticize it as an unnecessarily or even maliciously loaded term, since "clinical homophobia" is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Nevertheless, homosexual panic has been successfully used as a defense in legal cases, though this defense is no longer permissible in many jurisdictions.

How about that, the people that use it the most are uncivil, malicious, inaccurate, and irrational. That pretty well sums up my opinion too.

I think they have a right to be gay, and they should have the same rights as other american citizens, but that doesn't mean I think it is morally correct. Far from it.

 

[Woody]

Choose to reply to the other half of my post? Or is it another 'no comment' from a theist?

If I don't want to attend a gay church, does that make me a facist in your mind?

I don't want to go to a church if it doesn't hold to biblical authority, not because it is gay. A church that endorses any kind of sex outside of sanctioned marriage is a nonbiblical church, and I will not attend. I really don't see the point of attending. I am commanded not to attend. Therefore I do not attend.

If you want to have a gay church then fine, go right ahead. I won't be attending, and neither will anyone else that believes a bible. So go ahead and start a gay church, have yourself a holy spirit revival! Can't you see all the gays submitting to the will of the Lord! Not my will but thine oh Lord; thou are the potter and I am the clay -- yeah right. :bugeye:

 

[Woody]

Charles Cure said:

does it really bug you that much that a couple of guys might go to church holding hands and try to participate in the same worship of the same god that you seem to value so highly?

No it doesn't bother me a bit. As a matter of fact, a couple of gay guys came to fundamentalist baptist church I used to go to. The pastor preaches against sin a lot. They only lasted one service. After the service was over I even shook one of the guy's hands and invited them to come back. It has like a wet spaghetti noodle. He was more interested in holding my hand than shaking it. It was kind of weird man! It was like the guy thought I was a girl. and I'm thinking like, "no I'm really a guy." Totally weird.

 

[KennyJC]

If I don't want to attend a gay church, does that make me a facist in your mind?

No, but you are a fascist if you wish to deny gay's equal rights, rights to have their own church for example...

I don't want to go to a church if it doesn't hold to biblical authority, not because it is gay. A church that endorses any kind of sex outside of sanctioned marriage is a nonbiblical church, and I will not attend. I really don't see the point of attending. I am commanded not to attend. Therefore I do not attend.

If gays are banned from marriage or civil union in America, how else can they have sex if it is only allowed under marriage?

The church isn't an accurate representation of the Bible anyway. Since when does the church talk about slavery and murder like it often does in the Bible?

If you want to have a gay church then fine, go right ahead. I won't be attending, and neither will anyone else that believes a bible.

I assume you think slavery is wrong... How can you go against the Bible like that? You are a hypocrite.

If gays think the Bible is wrong when the bible condems gay people, then surely you have a serious case of double standards as you as a civilised person can not agree with the entire Bible... Especially that of the old testiment which would see you thrown in jail if you followed it to the letter.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

yep,

all people are welcome to come to church. Gay people are welcome too. We have a moral code that says nobody can be a member if they are having sex outside of a church-sanctioned marriage (between man and woman). Practicing drug addicts, drunks, whores, etc can not be members, but they are welcome to attend all they want.

*************
M*W: If was up to me, I'd do everything I could to keep people (of all persuasions) out of churches, but let me offer you a bit of wisdom nonetheless:

Church should be a hospital for sinners and not a museum of saints.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

No it doesn't bother me a bit. As a matter of fact, a couple of gay guys came to fundamentalist baptist church I used to go to. The pastor preaches against sin a lot. They only lasted one service. After the service was over I even shook one of the guy's hands and invited them to come back. It has like a wet spaghetti noodle. He was more interested in holding my hand than shaking it. It was kind of weird man! It was like the guy thought I was a girl. and I'm thinking like, "no I'm really a guy." Totally weird.

*************
M*W: Woody, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you are not a homophobe, the more obvious it becomes that you are. I don't think that it's your hatred for other gay men, it's the fear you have of your own homosexual tendencies. It speaks loud and clear. In fact, it screams.

About the gay guys at your church. You were being a hypocrite welcoming them to come back when you were just playing nicey nicey. You gave yourself away when you said the guy's handshake was like a "wet spaghetti noodle." That's an obvious referral to the state of your penis and your fear of losing it (as if you were "a girl!").

One of my favorite quotes is found in the epilogue of the movie Platoon when Charlie Sheen says as they're flying out of Viet Nam for the last time in a helicopter, "we're not fighting the enemy in each other, we're fighting the enemy in ourselves."

 

[spidergoat]

Woody, thinking that gay people need "their own church" is immoral. Does your church kick people out that cheat on their wives or have gotten a divorce?

 

[Woody]

Woody, thinking that gay people need "their own church" is immoral. Does your church kick people out that cheat on their wives or have gotten a divorce?

Absolutely not. You need to study the church bylaws. People that cheat on their wives lose their membership, but anyone can continue to attend most churches. You won't see a sign that says: "adulterer's not welcome here", "if you are gay do not enter", etc. etc.

When somebody that has a known lifestyle of sin joins our church body without repentence it hurts our church. It hurts bad. I can tell it when I walk in. It's like an ice bucket on the congregation. I don't have to know the details, I can see the results, and I'm not the only one.

 

[Woody]

*************
M*W: Woody, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you are not a homophobe, the more obvious it becomes that you are. I don't think that it's your hatred for other gay men, it's the fear you have of your own homosexual tendencies.

The word homophobe is a meaningless cliche. From the Wiki:

The fact that "homophobia" contains the word "phobia" leads some people to reject the term outright, and to criticize it as an unnecessarily or even maliciously loaded term, since "clinical homophobia" is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

So you begin your conversation with an uncivil and meaningless accusation. I like women by the way, I really do. I'm married to one. Women turn me on, men are just guys like I am.

It speaks loud and clear. In fact, it screams.

Actually it's just you hearing your own diatribe. What's it called when you ascribe your own faults to someone else. There has to be a name for it:

it's the fear you have of your own homosexual tendencies.

See what I mean? There you go again, judging others by your own motivations.

no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you are not a homophobe, the more obvious it becomes that you are.

Actually I think you are the homophobe, whatever that means. You certainly have an irrational fear of something. Is it your own homosexuality?

About the gay guys at your church. You were being a hypocrite welcoming them to come back when you were just playing nicey nicey. You gave yourself away when you said the guy's handshake was like a "wet spaghetti noodle." That's an obvious referral to the state of your penis and your fear of losing it (as if you were "a girl!").

You know what it's like to have a penis, do you? Do you have one too? When were you transgendered? You're fitting a pattern.

BTW, I didn't know the two guys were gay until the pastor said so the next church service. One of them called him on the phone and harrassed him half to death. They weren't being singled out but they felt like they were. That's what sin conviction does to somebody. As for the greeting experience, I thought it was weird, but I didn't know the guy was gay until later. You should know what it feels like when you are being sized up for sex -- maybe that's an ancient memory for you.

One of my favorite quotes is found in the epilogue of the movie Platoon when Charlie Sheen says as they're flying out of Viet Nam for the last time in a helicopter, "we're not fighting the enemy in each other, we're fighting the enemy in ourselves."

Maybe someday you'll have victory over yourself.

 

[Woody]

No, but you are a fascist if you wish to deny gay's equal rights, rights to have their own church for example...

They can have their own church. They do have their own church. I won't be attending.

If gays are banned from marriage or civil union in America, how else can they have sex if it is only allowed under marriage?

They're going to have it anyway, so what difference does marriage make? It's a political attempt to justify their actions on moral grounds. Fine, let them have a civil union if they want to. A biblical church won't recognize it.

The church isn't an accurate representation of the Bible anyway. Since when does the church talk about slavery and murder like it often does in the Bible?

You don't go to church, so how would you know what is preached?

I assume you think slavery is wrong... How can you go against the Bible like that? You are a hypocrite.

No I don't believe slavery is wrong. I am a slave. When I stop paying taxes I go to prison. Life isn't fair -- welcome to the real world.

If gays think the Bible is wrong when the bible condems gay people, then surely you have a serious case of double standards as you as a civilised person can not agree with the entire Bible... Especially that of the old testiment which would see you thrown in jail if you followed it to the letter.

The bible doesn't condemn gay people, it condemns sex outside of a male/female marriage relationship. It does not condemn the orientation, rather it condemns doing that which is not appropriate. Premarital sex falls in that category too.

 

[KennyJC]

They're going to have it anyway, so what difference does marriage make? It's a political attempt to justify their actions on moral grounds. Fine, let them have a civil union if they want to. A biblical church won't recognize it.

So you think everyone you see around you in your church was a virgin until they were married? I think not... So why your focus of gay pre-marital sex?

You don't go to church, so how would you know what is preached?

I went to church for 7 years. Yes I was forced to do it as I was a child, and I was forced into a tradition of 'confirmation' which I think means I have dedicated myself to the church. All this of course was before I was old enough to give my consent... But in all the time I was there I never heard anything about slavery or murder the way I read it in the Bible.

No I don't believe slavery is wrong. I am a slave. When I stop paying taxes I go to prison. Life isn't fair -- welcome to the real world.

You deserve a round of applause for that. This is the best way any theist has ever avoided my question on this forum. I am talking about the chattel slavery that was outlawed by Abe Lincoln in your very own country. I am also talking about the slavery which is clearly spelled out in the Bible:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Pressumably you agree that this is morally wrong by todays standards.

The bible doesn't condemn gay people, it condemns sex outside of a male/female marriage relationship. It does not condemn the orientation, rather it condemns doing that which is not appropriate. Premarital sex falls in that category too.

Again, the hideous act of sex outside of marriage applies to Christian hetrosexuals too. They have disobeyed the Bible in thousands of ways. So if a pure Christian gay couple have followed the Bible perfectly, and are then are allowed to be married (both are still virgins untill marriage), then they have only disobeyed the Bible in one count.

Their one biblical sin compared to your hundreds/thousands as far as the Bible goes.