"gay" Bishop Row in the UK

No it doesn't. While there are some laws about marrying captives of war these were only because the Isrealites had hard hearts. Also you have to put these laws in light of what was practicing around them. The laws to not bring salvation and you could practice them perfectly and not be in heaven. In other words, they are only to keep order.
 
Raping women and killing people to "keep order". Right. I'm quite sure that kind of logic is twisted to the core. Like most religions, so don't feel like I'm singling yours out.
:m:
 
To Okinrus who wrote: "The church is no longer part of the body of Christ. It is a tool and whim of Satan otherwise known as popular belief. Hopefully this will be a blessing with more conservatives joining the Catholic church."

Well now I am really confused :confused:

Why would the church post a homosexual if it is against doctrine and against the popular opinion within the church? Just out of curiosity, do you really believe that there is a spiritual being named satan plotting against the big pill? I mean why would an all powerful being which is everything and created everything be at odds with himself? I mean if he created everything that would also include all we consider bad or evil? Why would an all powerful being allow one of his minions to wage war against him? Why would heaven which is supposed to be perfect have a war? And if there is war and good and bad in heaven why do we expect life on earth to be different? Why ask man to live up to a higher value when the angels don't even know how to behave?
 
Originally posted by Repo Man
Being gay is about as much of a disability (and about as important) as being left handed.
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VERY good example when you think about how bigiots like some of the posters on this thread treated people who were left handed
 
Why would the church post a homosexual if it is against doctrine and against the popular opinion within the church? Just out of curiosity,
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I don't know. England has become more secular. Perhaps most of the Anglian Church do not hold the bible authoritative. They have taken weaker stands on such issues as abortion. They have always sided with the secular goverment, ever since their beginnings with King Henry.

do you really believe that there is a spiritual being named satan plotting against the big pill? I mean why would an all powerful being which is everything and created everything be at odds with himself?
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The creation of a creature that can love requires that creature to have freewill. Satan was the most powerful angel.

I mean if he created everything that would also include all we consider bad or evil?
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Good and evil were created as soon as we have the choice to love him or not. However the forces of evil were not created but fell from heaven.

Why would an all powerful being allow one of his minions to wage war against him?
Satan does do some good. Without the perception that God loves us or can prove to us his love, we might never be able to comprehend his love.

Why would heaven which is supposed to be perfect have a war? There was a "war" in heaven but Satan has been casted down to earth.

Why ask man to live up to a higher value when the angels don't even know how to behave?
The angels who have chosen God have never sinned.
 
Which leads us to the ultimate question:

Is okinrus here to DISCUSS ...

... or to proselytize?
 
No. Obviously I'm just correcting mistakes. You said it yourself, "I'm here to crush theist and make them cry". So who is proselytizing?
 
Okinrus I am not here to make fun of your religion I just want to understand the ideas and the thinking, it is all quite confusing actually. Thanks for the explanation. The freewill thing makes sense but then why would a higher being then become upset and punish those for using their own freewill? I mean it just doesn't seem quite fair :(
 
I imagine that this has been posted before, but it is one of my favorites, so why not?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus
 
There are logical difficulties in the notion of sin. We are told that sin consists in disobedience to God's commands, but we are also told that God is omnipotent. If He is, nothing contrary to His will can occur; therefore when the sinner disobeys His commands, He must have intended this to happen. St. Augustine boldly accepts this view, and asserts that men are led to sin by a blindness with which God afflicts them. But most theologians, in modern times, have felt that, if God causes men to sin, it is not fair to send them to hell for what they cannot help. We are told that sin consists in acting contrary to God's will. This, however, does not get rid of the difficulty. Those who, like Spinoza, take God's omnipotence seriously, deduce that there can be no such thing as sin. This leads to frightful results. What! said Spinoza's contemporaries, was it not wicked of Nero to murder his mother? Was it not wicked of Adam to eat the apple? Is one action just as good as another? Spinoza wriggles, but does not find any satisfactory answer. If everything happens in accordance with God's will, God must have wanted Nero to murder his mother; therefore, since God is good, the murder must have been a good thing. From this argument there is no escape.
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From Bertrand Russell's An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish.

http://www.luminary.us/russell/intellectual_rubbish.html
 
Sirach 15:11 "Say not: 'It was God's doing that I fell away'; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: 'It was he who set me astray' for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth you hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him. Immense is the wisdom of the LORD; he is mighty in power, and all-seeing. The eyes of God see all he has made; he understands man's every deed. No man does he command to sin, to none does he give strength for lies."
 
Maia: Some of these posts are hard enough to read without them being in RED!! *aaaaaaagh*
 
Originally posted by Lucysnow
To Everneo who wrote: "Anyone who finds himself at odds with God is not eligible to guide in spritual matters."

Well that is my point I guess. I do not believe that anyone can say for sure or with any clarity what the great creater is at odds with. I assume that your idea of being at odds with the big boss comes from religious doctrine, which we all know has been written (re-written and passages omitted) by men, men who were more interested in controlling the masses through the bible, men who were political like the pope.
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I was wondering why hetrosexuality is being considered as a moral forced upon us by religions. If a homosexual, say a gay, get into an island where there are only cave-dwellers with no religion present, and if he tries to make advance towards a cave-man then it would be nice to know what happens to him.. any idea.?

Also i wonder how any man can have a sexual preference to other men when he has all those wonderful sexy creatures called females. ah..? by instinct anyone is a hetrosexual. unless had some psychologically damaged past or corrupted by 'free' thought. what do you think.?
 
Originally posted by Repo Man
Being gay is about as much of a disability (and about as important) as being left handed.
Their only problem comes from having to deal with narrow minded heterosexuals who are enslaved by a book of ancient mis-translated myths.

The incredible prejudice they still have to deal with is enough for me to be glad I'm not.

Oddly, those who condemn them insist that being gay is a choice. Why on earth would someone choose to have to go through life putting up with the likes of you?
Do you feel that you could have just as easily been gay if you chose to be?
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i'm not enslaved by a book of ancient mistranslated myths (i'm an athiest)
i also do not think being gay is a choice. it's one of nature's cruel jokes... or a "defective product".

when a product is made in a factory it is expected that a certain percentage will be defective. (not a "product of different orientation")

i just hate that a small percent of the population (i think there's less than 1% of them, they think there's 10%) ruins it for the rest by changing ancient customs and religious laws believed by billions of religious peeps to have been set by God
 
i am not completely sure, but interracial marriage was once frowned upon by christianity was it not? if not i apologize for bringing it up, but anyways..

whether from a religious standpoint or just one of opinion, i believe that there is rarely and maybe never a reason to judge someone for decisions they make that truly do not hurt or cause someone else to suffer. homosexuals and heterosexuals do what they do because of what they feel. who is to say that what heterosexuals feel is more "right" than what homosexuals feel? last i heard the world was trying very hard to become tolerant, understanding and compassionate towards all mankind and animal kind. or maybe everyone is tolerant to a certain extent.. but god is not.. i don't know...

on a side note:


cris: your posts are most insightful and i very much enjoy them i agree with just about everything you have to say

okinrus: i am very happy there is a strong supporter of christianity here on these forums too.. or we would never hear their points

i only wish the supporters of christianity would look at some of the strong proof, the real strong evidence that their religion has some flaws.. and would fight back w/ something other than a bible quote.. which we already know could have been altered, re written or heck even misterpreted.
 
To Everneo: Whether homosexuality is a defect or caused by childhood abuse (doubtful) is finally not the point. It was the church itself that appointed this man to his post. If a gay organization were to lobby on his behalf and force the church to appoint him then I would understand your point. The truth is that the church has always been a haven for homosexuals and has pedophiles, which has recently come to light. I just think there is a lot of hypocrisy over this issue.
 
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